"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

[snip]

In terms of direct sun, even our summer sun is rarely strong enough
to worry them - yes, I really DO mean that it is comparable to
the light levels in a tropical forest!

The light levels in the (sub)tropical forests of which I have knowledge are
very low indeed, except in locally around clearings. Much lower than our
summer sunlight provides.

[snip]

Franz

cymbids are cool growing & phals are warm so the two don't really go
together so your guide shouldn't be taken for both!cymbids like
autumn,winter &spring temps of about 10 deg,not rising above 14 deg at night
while they have flower spikes as this can cause bud drop.in winter a daytime
temp of 15 to 18 deg is adequate.summer they need to be kept as cool as
possible with shading etc.As for phal`s ,early spring when the night temp
should not fall below 18 deg,with a daytime rise to 24-27 deg.This should be
maintained till late autumn when a reduction in temps min 15 at
night,rising to 18-21.a occasional drop to 10 deg on winter nights will do
no harm, & can help initiate flower spikes!which we all like ;-).
kenty
"ned" wrote in message
...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
ned wrote:

Ooooh, you are on a hiding to nothing with that question.
Experts will want to know 'Species', 'variety', 'country of
origin',
..........etc.

Quite. But the majority of orchids sold in garden centres in the UK
belong to one of a few species.

But, generally, keep out of direct sun, protect from frost, try to
maintain a 'moderate' temperature and at this time of year, water
sparingly. A humid atmosphere is usually recommended but, apart
from
placing a tray of half submerged pebbles nearby, that is not often
practical in the normal domestic indoor environment. If as you say
it
is 'beautiful', we can assume that it is now in flower as is normal
for many varieties. Flowering can last many weeks. Do not over
water.
Many orchids have 'pseudo bulbs' which act as their own self
contained
moisture reservoirs.
The compost should be loose and free draining. Stand the pot on
pebbles or coarse gravel to allow excess water to drain away
freely.
Permanently wet roots will rot.

Yes, but I have a few niggles. That advice is a clone of that given
to Californians, and does NOT map directly to the UK!

I have a few niggles, too! ;-)
I am not a Californian, nor was the orchid specialist who gave me the
advice - which has served me well over the last 20 years. I am sorry
if it does 'NOT map' directly to Cambridgeshire. It has proved
satisfactory for Buckinghamshire and Lincolnshire.

I have only a
Phalaenopsis and Cymbidium,

....... Oh. Definitely an expert then. ;-)

but the following remarks apply to most
tropical house plants (including my orchids).

In terms of direct sun, even our summer sun is rarely strong enough
to worry them - yes, I really DO mean that it is comparable to
the light levels in a tropical forest!

A tropical forest can be a very dark and oppressive place and some
orchids will never see direct sunlight..

In the winter, they like
all the sun they can get, and then more. Just don't keep them
immediately behind south-facing, sunny glass in the summer.

Last sentence, agreed. Mine are placed outside in dappled sunshine all
summer.

For
the next few months, however, a south facing window (away from the
glass) is none too much sun.

Similarly, most DON'T want high humidity, ESPECIALLY in cool, dark
conditions. UK relative humidities can be sky-high,

.... rarely, and certainly not .......

In a relatively
cool, naturally ventilated room in most of the UK, (where) the
humidities
ARE what (desert) Californians (might) call high!

Perhaps Kew don't know any better but their 'high humidity' tropical
environments are positively dripping with water. Few domestic
environments come anywhere near close to those conditions. My
suggestion of a bowl of half submerged pebbles is unlikely to create
'high' humidity.

My advice was stated to be 'general'. For me, it has successfully
stood the test of time. If Mr MacLaren's orchids survive a different
regime, then that serves to prove just how tolerant orchids can be and
should lessen Gea's fears.

Gea, as with most things in life, approach them with moderation in
mind, orchids grow in many homes across the UK. They can in yours,
too. ;-)

--
ned

agree with you Franz,tropical rain forest are dense,& have low light
levels.phals like shade with but good light,I have success with phals in a
north facing window were they have rebloomed without any special treatment!
kenty
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

[snip]

In terms of direct sun, even our summer sun is rarely strong enough
to worry them - yes, I really DO mean that it is comparable to
the light levels in a tropical forest!

The light levels in the (sub)tropical forests of which I have knowledge
are
very low indeed, except in locally around clearings. Much lower than our
summer sunlight provides.

[snip]

Franz

In article ,
"ned" writes:
|
| I have a few niggles, too! ;-)
| I am not a Californian, nor was the orchid specialist who gave me the
| advice - which has served me well over the last 20 years. I am sorry
| if it does 'NOT map' directly to Cambridgeshire. It has proved
| satisfactory for Buckinghamshire and Lincolnshire.

You are now changing the topic. My point is that it is a myth
(and a dogma) that most such tropical plants will scorch in the UK,
DUE TO THE SUNLIGHT, even in direct sun. They WILL scorch if
immediately behind glass, but that is a different effect. See
below.

I have been unable to find measurements of the ultraviolet levels
in the UK, but the average light levels in the UK in June are
about a half of those in the tropics. Because of the much longer
light path and water vapour content of the atmosphere, which
absorbs ultraviolet preferentially, the ultraviolet level in the
UK will be WELL below a half of that in the tropics EVEN IN
MIDSUMMER.

Using myself as a guinea-pig confirms this. I have started to
burn on moderately tanned skin in 45 minutes in the tropics; I
have NEVER burnt, not even on untanned skin, inland in the UK
(salt and wind burn is another matter).

In winter, of course, ultraviolet levels are as near as dammit
nil.

| I have only a
| Phalaenopsis and Cymbidium,
|
| ....... Oh. Definitely an expert then. ;-)

It is you who are claiming to be the expert, not me. What I can
tell you is that I have NEVER seen sun scorch in the UK due to
light levels as such on any of the standard "keep out of direct
sunlight" plants. And I have kept a fair number in direct sun,
both in the open and in a south facing conservatory.

95% (perhaps all) of the claims of "sun scorch" in the UK are
nothing more than localised overheating, either because the plant
is in a position that its leaves get very hot or because its
capacity for cooling is overloaded. You often get "sun scorch"
of plants like primulas in full shade; the light level has nothing
to do with the matter.

Both of those plants have been left in full sun in the recent "hot"
summers without a SIGN of scorch. I have seen them happy with full
sun elsewhere in the UK, too.

| but the following remarks apply to most
| tropical house plants (including my orchids).
|
| In terms of direct sun, even our summer sun is rarely strong enough
| to worry them - yes, I really DO mean that it is comparable to
| the light levels in a tropical forest!
|
| A tropical forest can be a very dark and oppressive place and some
| orchids will never see direct sunlight..

Sigh. (a) think contrast - such places LOOK very dark, because
they contrast with the bright light in the open. (b) sun scorch
is caused by ultraviolet which is a much higher proportion of the
visible light in the tropics.

| Similarly, most DON'T want high humidity, ESPECIALLY in cool, dark
| conditions. UK relative humidities can be sky-high,
|
| .... rarely, and certainly not .......

NO, NOT RARELY. Reaching 100% pretty well every night, even in the
driest parts of the UK. Even condensing atmospheres are common.
The purpose of heating in much of the UK is to reduce humidity, not
raise the temperature. That is WHY we have so much trouble with
tender plants that can take -20 Celcius in other countries.

| In a relatively
| cool, naturally ventilated room in most of the UK, (where) the
| humidities
| ARE what (desert) Californians (might) call high!
|
| Perhaps Kew don't know any better but their 'high humidity' tropical
| environments are positively dripping with water. Few domestic
| environments come anywhere near close to those conditions. My
| suggestion of a bowl of half submerged pebbles is unlikely to create
| 'high' humidity.

Perhaps you failed to observe the glass roofs. Most plants can
handle a lot more humidity when in reasonably active growth. I
quite agree that your bowl of half submerged pebbles is neither
here nor there. Please also reread my comment about "cool,
naturally ventilated".

One of the most common ways to kill tropical plants in a UK winter
is to keep them merely protected from frost. It is very common
for the relative humidities in greenhouses etc. to get to 100%
and stay there; this causes very rapid fungal, bacterial and algal
growth. No, I don't know how sensitive tropical orchids are to
such attack at 5 Celcius and 100% humidity, with effectively no
ultraviolet to kill the surface fungi etc. But a HELL of a lot
of "no direct light" tropicals ARE sensitive.

| My advice was stated to be 'general'. For me, it has successfully
| stood the test of time. If Mr MacLaren's orchids survive a different
| regime, then that serves to prove just how tolerant orchids can be and
| should lessen Gea's fears.
|
| Gea, as with most things in life, approach them with moderation in
| mind, orchids grow in many homes across the UK. They can in yours,
| too. ;-)

I agree with that.

What I am arguing against is the myth/dogma of "no direct sun",
as generally applied. It just isn't true, and is positively
harmful for many tropical plants in winter. I am not saying which
orchids will thrive on very low light levels, because I don't know.
But I am saying that most of the ones standardly sold in garden
centres in the UK can handle direct UK sun perfectly well.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick wrote in message after me
More likely a Moth Orchid, which is a Phalaenopsis, ...
They are epiphytes and live high up under the tree canopy in tropical
rainforests attached to tree branches by those thick clinging roots so
they
only get water when it rains, only get food when bird droppings etc get
washed to the roots, and never stay wet for long.

When the spike finishes flowering don't cut it off unless it turns brown
and
dies. It will flower again from the same spike or if you are very lucky
you
will get another plant growing on it.

Interesting. I didn't know that. We were given one a few years ago,
and I am absolutely flabberghasted by it. With the attention you
describe (often in the form of benign neglect), it has flowered
spectacularly for 7 months at a stretch! Quite amazing.


I would say from my experience ('tis a few years since I kept them) it's
more unusual for the spike to die after flowering than stay green and alive.
It will just keep producing more flowering spurs from the nodes so on a big
old plant you will have almost constant flowering as it will have more than
one flower spike. As I said, occasionally it will produce a "Keiki", a new
plant, which will grow roots whilst still attached, which is a bonus. Just
bend the spike over into another pot and the new plant will root itself.
It's the way they take over whole branches in the forest.

Much easier to grow than they used to be, obviously becoming domesticated.
Years ago it was said they needed constant shade in a specialist orchid hot
house now they appear to be one of the easiest flowering house plants to
grow, well, mature hybrid plants at least.

--
Regards
Bob

Use a useful Screen Saver...
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
and find intelligent life amongst the stars, there's bugger all down here.

In article ,
Bob Hobden wrote:


I would say from my experience ('tis a few years since I kept them) it's
more unusual for the spike to die after flowering than stay green and alive.
It will just keep producing more flowering spurs from the nodes so on a big
old plant you will have almost constant flowering as it will have more than
one flower spike. As I said, occasionally it will produce a "Keiki", a new
plant, which will grow roots whilst still attached, which is a bonus. Just
bend the spike over into another pot and the new plant will root itself.
It's the way they take over whole branches in the forest.

Thanks. I will try that, if it happens.

Much easier to grow than they used to be, obviously becoming domesticated.
Years ago it was said they needed constant shade in a specialist orchid hot
house now they appear to be one of the easiest flowering house plants to
grow, well, mature hybrid plants at least.

Was it said or was it true? Some of the things that "everybody says"
are true, many are half-true, and a few are complete codswallop.

A few years back, I got liberally flamed for saying that there was
damn-all evidence that sunscreen potions protected against cancer,
and some reason to believe that the converse might be the case. The
latest research has confirmed ALL of my suspicions - which is NOT
to say that they ARE harmful, merely that it is now admitted to be
unclear whether they do more harm than good.

Similarly, I have never seen any evidence of sun scorch in the UK,
and have seen LOTS of "no direct sunlight" plants that were growing
happily in direct sun. And I have seen "sun scorch" in shade on
sensitive plants, caused purely by drying winds. Similarly, while
I can believe that water droplets OCCASIONALLY focus sunlight enough
to cause damage, I have never seen it happen and it is CERTAINLY
not enough to worry about except in very rare conditions, at least
outside (e.g. there must be NO wind).

My belief is that sun scorch is almost entirely mythical in the UK,
and the damage is caused by some combination of overheating or
drying out. And, as even the direct sun on concrete on a still day
doesn't raise the temperature above 45 Celcius (and rarely that),
tropical plants don't need to do much respiration to reduce their
temperature to a safe 40 Celcius. Now, there doubtless ARE plants
that can't respire at that rate, but I think that they are much
rarer than is believed.

The same is not true in the tropics, or even the Mediterranean,
where the MUCH stronger sun requires a much greater cooling from
respiration.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...


big snip
Sigh.

I agree with that.
Sigh.

:-)

--
ned

"Nick wrote in message .

Much easier to grow than they used to be, obviously becoming
domesticated.
Years ago it was said they needed constant shade in a specialist orchid
hot
house now they appear to be one of the easiest flowering house plants to
grow, well, mature hybrid plants at least.

Was it said or was it true? Some of the things that "everybody says"
are true, many are half-true, and a few are complete codswallop. ((snip))

I believe it was true, it seemed to be, but then originally (and some even
when I started growing orchids) these were wild caught plants and all
species too. I understand the species Phals are still a bit more demanding
to grow well, but some are well worth the effort P. schilleriana can have
dozens of flowers open at once, P.amboinensis is short but can produce a
number of spikes at one time, and P. violacea adds perfume as it's name
suggests but is demanding.

Whilst talking about wild caught orchids, when we were in Hong Kong last
year, I took a look at the Flower Market on Kowloon side and found a couple
of shops selling a Paphiopedilum I had never seen before either at Orchid
shows or in my many books, all the plants were in flower and all were
obviously taken from the wild. Such a shame, probably extinct in the wild
already.

--
Regards
Bob

Use a useful Screen Saver...
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
and find intelligent life amongst the stars, there's bugger all down here.

Thankyou so much for ALL of the really helpful replies,
my orchid really appreciates them ,
Gea©




"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 20:06:29 +0000 (UTC), "Gea Jones"
wrote:

Please Help,
much apppreciated, I just splashed out and bought myself a real live
potted
orchid,
it is so beautiful and I really want to give it all the TLC it deserves,
any Orchid eperts out there ?
I really need to know which part of the house to put it in, how much
watering[the soil is really dry]
light, temp, all the usual,
Thankyou very much
Gea

My mother (83 yrs old) has pots and pots of such orchids, bought over
the years at the local Wyvale g/c, which flourish with sickening vigor
and are in flower for months. She has several species, I don't know
what but nothing difficult or rare, I guess.

She has them in an extension to her living room which has d-g windows
on three sides but a plaster ceiling. The fourth side is open to the
living room. Although the extension has two hot-water radiators in it,
they are small and it doesn't get too hot or too cold out there. The
windows face north, east and south, respectively. On the E and S
windows are venetian blinds which she lowers to protect them from
direct sunshine. The pots are on the sills of the N and E-facing
windows, but not the S window. They're there all year round, i.e. she
doesn't put them outside in the summer, and they don't seem to need
any help in initiating flower shoots. She grows them in proper
commercial orchid compost (mostly large bark chips by the look of it).

She reckons that it's the watering regime that is critical to their
health. She waters them once a week (it's her Sunday morning
activity), by plunging each pot in a bowl of water for about ten
minutes and then letting it drain. She puts a pinch of general purpose
soluble fertiliser into the water (don't know what; probably
Phostrogen or Miracle-grow). No other water is given for the rest of
the week. When they're looking as if they're getting cramped, she
re-pots into a larger pot using more of the same compost.



--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net