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Do plants have brain?
No doubt.
http://www.friesian.com/penrose.htm http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/ps...6-moravec.html But what does it have to do with gardening? "Steve Haigh" wrote in message ... Nick Maclaren wrote: In article yrOgc.45$oI2.0@newsfe1-win, "Andy Hunt" writes: | So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are germinating in | the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and | decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level? No. How does water know which way is down when it is running down a slope? How does a compass know to point north? No. It slightly goes against the grain to recommend anything by Richard Dawkins (he is widely regarded as a pain in the a*** by other scientists) Not by any scientists I know. I don't know many zoologists and biologists though, so maybe in his own area he not so well thought off. Is there a reason for this, has he upset them in some way or is it just because he's famous? , but his books do explain how this for of thing develops without consciousness. They do indeed. Roger Penrose also wrote a couple of excellent book on conciousness called "Shadows of the Mind" and "The Emperor's New Mind". |
Do plants have brain?
Cereus-validus wrote:
No doubt. http://www.friesian.com/penrose.htm http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/ps...6-moravec.html But what does it have to do with gardening? "Steve Haigh" wrote in message ... Nick Maclaren wrote: In article yrOgc.45$oI2.0@newsfe1-win, "Andy Hunt" writes: | So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are germinating in | the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and | decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level? No. How does water know which way is down when it is running down a slope? How does a compass know to point north? No. It slightly goes against the grain to recommend anything by Richard Dawkins (he is widely regarded as a pain in the a*** by other scientists) Not by any scientists I know. I don't know many zoologists and biologists though, so maybe in his own area he not so well thought off. Is there a reason for this, has he upset them in some way or is it just because he's famous? , but his books do explain how this for of thing develops without consciousness. They do indeed. Roger Penrose also wrote a couple of excellent book on conciousness called "Shadows of the Mind" and "The Emperor's New Mind". I'm not sure, but then this thread appears to have nothing to do with gardening anyway. After reading Penrose's books I'm not even sure I have a brain. But I must do, 'cos I don't top post;-) |
Do plants have brain?
In article ,
Steve Haigh wrote: No. It slightly goes against the grain to recommend anything by Richard Dawkins (he is widely regarded as a pain in the a*** by other scientists) Not by any scientists I know. I don't know many zoologists and biologists though, so maybe in his own area he not so well thought off. Is there a reason for this, has he upset them in some way or is it just because he's famous? It is because of his self-publicity and dogmatism. , but his books do explain how this for of thing develops without consciousness. They do indeed. Even his opponents admit that he is not a fool, his ideas are not demented, and he can write fairly well. Roger Penrose also wrote a couple of excellent book on conciousness called "Shadows of the Mind" and "The Emperor's New Mind". Er, watch out. He is widely regarded as having flipped his lid when he retired from real mathematics to ride his hobbyhorses. Those books may LOOK good but, if you know enough about the area to tell flannelling from science, you are less impressed. In particular, his claim that human consciousness is not subject to the Turing/Goedel limits is unjustified and his evidence fallacious. And his theory of quantum gravity being the source of consciousness is reminiscent of L. Ron Hubbard. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Do plants have brain?
That some New Age clowns Who are these people of whom you speak? The old teacher of mine to whom I was referring was a man called Stafford Beer. If you do a 'google' search, you'll soon discover that your label is somewhat wide of the mark. are too lazy to actually do any real research into the subject show just how ignorant and stupid they really are and that they should not be given any serious consideration at all. They have been watching too much bad sci-fi on TV. They are clueless about the scientific method and how to apply it to even the most basic problems. I am very well aware of the theory of geotropism etc, although you somewhat dangerously assume that I am not. I got my 'A' at 'O' level biology, and do still recall the subject matter. I believe wholeheartedly in science as a tool of consciousness, but at the same time I'm very much aware that the reductionist nature of science can lead us into a 'false sense of obscurity'. A plant is an autopoietic viable system which has the requisite variety to comprehend and adapt to its environment in the same way that a human being has. Both systems necessarily have ways of perceiving that environment, and ways of reacting to that environment. The biological details may differ, but the purpose is the same. I was merely pointing out that biology isn't necessarily the whole story. Then again, I do believe in a "Creator", so I possibly _do_ belong to the lunatic "New Age" fringe of which you are so fond. In any case, the extent of their ineptitude has noting to do with gardening. Ever read the parable of the tares . . . ? Or of the vineyard? There are some pretty decent gardening tips in the NT if you ask me! Roll on the great harvest . . . Andy |
Do plants have brain?
We will miss you most of all, Scarecrow.
Any way you look at it, this newsgroup is about gardening and not you nor what you believe. "Andy Hunt" wrote in message news:_1ehc.20964$4N3.18169@newsfe1-win... That some New Age clowns Who are these people of whom you speak? The old teacher of mine to whom I was referring was a man called Stafford Beer. If you do a 'google' search, you'll soon discover that your label is somewhat wide of the mark. are too lazy to actually do any real research into the subject show just how ignorant and stupid they really are and that they should not be given any serious consideration at all. They have been watching too much bad sci-fi on TV. They are clueless about the scientific method and how to apply it to even the most basic problems. I am very well aware of the theory of geotropism etc, although you somewhat dangerously assume that I am not. I got my 'A' at 'O' level biology, and do still recall the subject matter. I believe wholeheartedly in science as a tool of consciousness, but at the same time I'm very much aware that the reductionist nature of science can lead us into a 'false sense of obscurity'. A plant is an autopoietic viable system which has the requisite variety to comprehend and adapt to its environment in the same way that a human being has. Both systems necessarily have ways of perceiving that environment, and ways of reacting to that environment. The biological details may differ, but the purpose is the same. I was merely pointing out that biology isn't necessarily the whole story. Then again, I do believe in a "Creator", so I possibly _do_ belong to the lunatic "New Age" fringe of which you are so fond. In any case, the extent of their ineptitude has noting to do with gardening. Ever read the parable of the tares . . . ? Or of the vineyard? There are some pretty decent gardening tips in the NT if you ask me! Roll on the great harvest . . . Andy |
Do plants have brain?
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:50:02 GMT, Cereus-validus wrote:
Why don't you go back to contemplating your navel, Tiny Tim, take your New Age drivel to some newsgroup more appropriate where they might take you silliness seriously and not show everyone in this one just how flaky you are? If you took a poll here, the overwhelming majority would say you and your twinkie friends lack any consciousness. I would recommend you stay away from woodlands lest you be attacked by squirrels. Those critters already know what you are! "Tim Challenger" "timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at" wrote in message s.com... On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:46 +0100, Andy Hunt wrote: Similarly, if you look for the _growth_ in a plant, you won't find it . . . I know what you mean, but as I said elsewhere, who decides what is consciousness? And how? Boiling it down again you end up with "I think, therefore I am" and that's all you can prove. Well, *YOU* can't prove it, because you're just a figment of my imagination, but *I* can. What is your personal definition of consciousness? Are viruses conscious? Bacteria? Fungi? Algae? Apple-trees? Sponges? Jellyfish? Octopuses? Fish? Humans? If some of these are conscious then why? And why not the others? That's the hard bit; trying to identify the boiled-down chemical processes which make something self-aware. Or even to reach a consensus on what is actually meant by consciousness. -- Tim C. What *are* you talking about? Me New Age? That's a laugh. What makes you think that? -- Tim C. |
Do plants have brain?
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:27:42 +0100, Andy Hunt wrote:
That some New Age clowns Who are these people of whom you speak? The old teacher of mine to whom I was referring was a man called Stafford Beer. If you do a 'google' search, you'll soon discover that your label is somewhat wide of the mark. He seems to think it's me. :-) -- Tim C. |
Do plants have brain?
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:12:21 GMT, Cereus-validus wrote:
We will miss you most of all, Scarecrow. Any way you look at it, this newsgroup is about gardening and not you nor what you believe. But then at the last count, out of 34 posts in this thread 10 of them are from you. In fact, you posted most in this thread. And why the sudden switch from the apparent intelligence in your earlier posts to blatant insults? Run out of ideas? -- Tim C. |
Do plants have brain?
Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:198186
Why are you so paranoid, Challenged Tim? Are you afraid that the plants might be talking about you behind your back? You have been counting the number of postings on this silly thread? Your time would be much better spent tending to your garden, don't you think? "Tim Challenger" "timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at" wrote in message s.com... On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:12:21 GMT, Cereus-validus wrote: We will miss you most of all, Scarecrow. Any way you look at it, this newsgroup is about gardening and not you nor what you believe. But then at the last count, out of 34 posts in this thread 10 of them are from you. In fact, you posted most in this thread. And why the sudden switch from the apparent intelligence in your earlier posts to blatant insults? Run out of ideas? -- Tim C. |
Do plants have brain?
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:34:30 GMT, Cereus-validus wrote:
Why are you so paranoid, Challenged Tim? Are you afraid that the plants might be talking about you behind your back? You have been counting the number of postings on this silly thread? Your time would be much better spent tending to your garden, don't you think? Absolutely, but as I'm at work.... -- Tim C. |
Do plants have brain?
Bob Hobden wrote:
"Robert" wrote in message after Rajinder... : : It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have : "lesser brain", the seat of instincts. : : Is it true? : Well they're more intelligent than President Bush but I don' think there's a lot in it Hmmm, after 9/11 everyone in the world expected another similar terrorist atrocity in the US within months, it hasn't happened yet. Why? Because a lot of the terrorist types are now engaged with well trained and well armed soldiers in Iraq and a lot of the "terrorists" are being killed as opposed to US civilians. So is Bush an idiot or a damn good chess player? He's an idiot and a dangerous idiot at that. Some of the people pulling his strings are certainly a lot brighter but that wouldn't take much ... -- Larry Stoter |
Do plants have brain?
Hi,
Read the Bible to understand the present. Read the Parable of wheat and Tares. tares are bundled up in Israel for Final Burning. When, I don't know. Rajinder "Larry Stoter" wrote in message k... Bob Hobden wrote: "Robert" wrote in message after Rajinder... : : It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have : "lesser brain", the seat of instincts. : : Is it true? : Well they're more intelligent than President Bush but I don' think there's a lot in it Hmmm, after 9/11 everyone in the world expected another similar terrorist atrocity in the US within months, it hasn't happened yet. Why? Because a lot of the terrorist types are now engaged with well trained and well armed soldiers in Iraq and a lot of the "terrorists" are being killed as opposed to US civilians. So is Bush an idiot or a damn good chess player? He's an idiot and a dangerous idiot at that. Some of the people pulling his strings are certainly a lot brighter but that wouldn't take much .... -- Larry Stoter |
Do plants have brain?
They seem to have the lesser brain of instincts. They act like a
Natural Man. Rajinder "Bob Hobden" wrote in message ... Rajinder wrote in message It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have "lesser brain", the seat of instincts. Is it true? Well I know they react to damage, compete with others, and seem to have a will to live their time, so there might be something controlling these processes even if just at the cell level. -- Regards Bob Use a useful Screen Saver... http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ and find intelligent life amongst the stars |
Do plants have brain?
Hi,
What about comparing their system with our lesser brain please? Rajinder "Brian" wrote in message ... Plants can, and do, respond to stimuli. However this is only an indication that they are alive and in no way suggests the presence of a brain in the way that we understand. Only intentionally silly questions are deemed silly. Best Wishes Brian "Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt" wrote in message news:CUxgc.11$mv.3@newsfe1-win... Hi, It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have "lesser brain", the seat of instincts. Is it true? Rajinder |
Do plants have brain?
Could it be similar to our lesser brain that has natural instincts only?
Capacity to hear is of our mid brain. Rajinder "Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message ... The message CUxgc.11$mv.3@newsfe1-win from "Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt" contains these words: It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have "lesser brain", the seat of instincts. Some plants will react to being touched by rapidly becoming flaccid, so some sort of nervous system could be involved. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
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