Do plants have brain?
 

Hi,

It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
"lesser brain", the seat of instincts.

Is it true?

Rajinder

Do plants have brain?
 

Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt wrote:
: Hi,
:
: It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
: "lesser brain", the seat of instincts.
:
: Is it true?
:
: Rajinder

Well they're more intelligent than President Bush but I don' think there's a
lot in it

Do plants have brain?
 

Hi,

It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
"lesser brain", the seat of instincts.

Is it true?

Well they are intelligent enough to cover themselves with solar panels,
anyway . . .

Andy

Do plants have brain?
 

Rajinder wrote in message
It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
"lesser brain", the seat of instincts.

Is it true?

Well I know they react to damage, compete with others, and seem to have a
will to live their time, so there might be something controlling these
processes even if just at the cell level.

--
Regards
Bob

Use a useful Screen Saver...
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
and find intelligent life amongst the stars

Do plants have brain?
 

"Robert" wrote in message after Rajinder...
:
: It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
: "lesser brain", the seat of instincts.
:
: Is it true?
:

Well they're more intelligent than President Bush but I don' think there's
a
lot in it

Hmmm, after 9/11 everyone in the world expected another similar terrorist
atrocity in the US within months, it hasn't happened yet. Why? Because a lot
of the terrorist types are now engaged with well trained and well armed
soldiers in Iraq and a lot of the "terrorists" are being killed as opposed
to US civilians.
So is Bush an idiot or a damn good chess player?

--
Regards
Bob

Use a useful Screen Saver...
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
and find intelligent life amongst the stars

Do plants have brain?
 

Somebody has been pulling your leg.

The answer is NO.

Plants don't even have rudimentary nervous systems yet alone the need for a
brain to control one.


"Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt" wrote in message
news:CUxgc.11$mv.3@newsfe1-win...
Hi,

It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
"lesser brain", the seat of instincts.

Is it true?

Rajinder

Do plants have brain?
 

Unfortunately Dubaya does have a rudimentary nervous system and a brain,
albeit a poorly developed one.

The problem is when he tries to chew gum and make important decisions at the
same time he gets confused.


"Robert" wrote in message
...
Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt wrote:
: Hi,
:
: It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
: "lesser brain", the seat of instincts.
:
: Is it true?
:
: Rajinder

Well they're more intelligent than President Bush but I don' think there's
a
lot in it

Do plants have brain?
 

"Robert" wrote in message after Rajinder...
:
: It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
: "lesser brain", the seat of instincts.
:
: Is it true?
:

Well they're more intelligent than President Bush but I don' think
there's
a
lot in it

Hmmm, after 9/11 everyone in the world expected another similar terrorist
atrocity in the US within months, it hasn't happened yet. Why? Because a
lot
of the terrorist types are now engaged with well trained and well armed
soldiers in Iraq and a lot of the "terrorists" are being killed as opposed
to US civilians.
So is Bush an idiot or a damn good chess player?

He is if he has you convinced that he didn't do "9/11" himself . . .

http://www.911sharethetruth.com/

Andy

Do plants have brain?
 

Plants can, and do, respond to stimuli. However this is only an indication
that they are alive and in no way suggests the presence of a brain in the
way that we understand.
Only intentionally silly questions are deemed silly.
Best Wishes Brian
"Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt" wrote in message
news:CUxgc.11$mv.3@newsfe1-win...
Hi,

It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
"lesser brain", the seat of instincts.

Is it true?

Rajinder

Do plants have brain?
 

Response to stimuli does not require a nervous system or a brain. Single
celled organisms respond to stimuli.

Even inorganic substances can respond to stimuli.
Ice melts when you apply heat!!
As if that's not enough, liquid water will even boil when enough heat is
applied!!

"Brian" wrote in message
...
Plants can, and do, respond to stimuli. However this is only an indication
that they are alive and in no way suggests the presence of a brain in the
way that we understand.
Only intentionally silly questions are deemed silly.
Best Wishes Brian
"Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt" wrote in
message
news:CUxgc.11$mv.3@newsfe1-win...
Hi,

It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
"lesser brain", the seat of instincts.

Is it true?

Rajinder

Do plants have brain?
 

"Andy Hunt" wrote in message
news:NfDgc.707$Gq3.687@newsfe1-win...
:
:
: "Robert" wrote in message after Rajinder...
: :
: : It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
: : "lesser brain", the seat of instincts.
: :
: : Is it true?
: :
:
: Well they're more intelligent than President Bush but I don' think
: there's
: a
: lot in it
:
: Hmmm, after 9/11 everyone in the world expected another similar
terrorist
: atrocity in the US within months, it hasn't happened yet. Why? Because a
: lot
: of the terrorist types are now engaged with well trained and well armed
: soldiers in Iraq and a lot of the "terrorists" are being killed as
opposed
: to US civilians.
: So is Bush an idiot or a damn good chess player?
:
: He is if he has you convinced that he didn't do "9/11" himself . . .
:
: http://www.911sharethetruth.com/
:
: Andy
:

And the world is a far more dangerous place now, after the bumbling b's have
invaded
:

Do plants have brain?
 

I dont care, I will still talk to my plants.
Kev,

Do plants have brain?
 

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:197530

Well, isn't that special?

When you think they are talking back is when you really know you have a
problem!!!


"Kevin Groves" wrote in message
...
I dont care, I will still talk to my plants.
Kev,

Do plants have brain?
 

So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are germinating in
the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and
decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level?

Andy


"Cereus-validus" wrote in message
. ..
Well, isn't that special?

When you think they are talking back is when you really know you have a
problem!!!


"Kevin Groves" wrote in message
...
I dont care, I will still talk to my plants.
Kev,

Do plants have brain?
 

In article yrOgc.45$oI2.0@newsfe1-win,
"Andy Hunt" writes:
| So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are germinating in
| the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and
| decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level?

No. It slightly goes against the grain to recommend anything by
Richard Dawkins (he is widely regarded as a pain in the a*** by
other scientists), but his books do explain how this for of thing
develops without consciousness.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Do plants have brain?
 

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:04:11 +0100, Andy Hunt wrote:

So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are germinating in
the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and
decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level?

Gravity, mostly.

Imagine a white T-shirt you've just soaked in a colourful dye. Hang the
shirt up and the dye will run to the bottom creating a gradient. in the
same way, there will be a gradient of various hormones throughout the plant
from tip to root, from leaf tip tip stem etc.

To (over) generalise a bit, the hormones responsible (a group called auxins
IIRC) for root growth also sink to the bottom of the plant, through the
cells. Thus roots grow at the bottom (where there is more root-growth
hormone), and shoots grow a the top (where there is less root-growth
hormone....).

You can show this by cutting small cubes of (certain) plant tissue and
whichever way you put them down they will grow roots at the bottom. Turn
them round, then they'll start growing roots from the new bottom surface.
As roots tend to grow first, it's possible in fact to create a cube of
plant tissue with roots growing out of all six sides, if you're bored.


--
Tim C.

Do plants have brain?
 

On 19 Apr 2004 11:15:54 GMT, Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article yrOgc.45$oI2.0@newsfe1-win,
"Andy Hunt" writes:
| So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are germinating in
| the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and
| decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level?

No. It slightly goes against the grain to recommend anything by
Richard Dawkins (he is widely regarded as a pain in the a*** by
other scientists), but his books do explain how this for of thing
develops without consciousness.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Any textbook on basic botany will do as well.
Dawkins does tend to take a good idea and stretch it to the limit. But I
think his ideas are generally sound. Thought provoking at the least.

Andy,
Dawkin's book The Blind Watchmaker is a good example of what Nick
suggested.
--
Tim C.

Do plants have brain?
 

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:04:11 +0100, Andy Hunt wrote:

So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are germinating in
the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and
decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level?

Here's a link : http://www.biology-online.org/3/5_plant_hormones.htm

--
Tim C.

Do plants have brain?
 

So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are germinating
in
the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and
decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level?

Here's a link : http://www.biology-online.org/3/5_plant_hormones.htm

Fair enough . . . but I do find myself wondering if biology is a function of
consciousness, or vice versa . . .

Andy
"The bridge flows, not the river" - Zen proverb

Do plants have brain?
 

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:59:53 +0100, Andy Hunt wrote:


So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are germinating
in
the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and
decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level?

Here's a link : http://www.biology-online.org/3/5_plant_hormones.htm

Fair enough . . . but I do find myself wondering if biology is a function of
consciousness, or vice versa . . .

You don't have to be conscious to be a biologist.

Seriously, who can say if a plant or animal are conscious? Scientists can't
even agree amongst themselves what consciousness is, let alone being able
to tell if other organisms possess it or not. I'm pretty sure about
bacteria and some fungi, but I often wonder about some humans.

--
Tim C.

Do plants have brain?
 

Cereus-validus wrote:
Well, isn't that special?

When you think they are talking back is when you really know you have a
problem!!!


Thankfully I don't hear voices and I have vivid memories of Day Of The
Triffids from my childhood....

Kev,

Do plants have brain?
 

The message CUxgc.11$mv.3@newsfe1-win
from "Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt"
contains these words:

It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
"lesser brain", the seat of instincts.

Some plants will react to being touched by rapidly becoming flaccid, so
some sort of nervous system could be involved.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Do plants have brain?
 

Hmmmm.

You obviously slept all through the course on basic botany.

Read up on geotropism.


"Andy Hunt" wrote in message
news:yrOgc.45$oI2.0@newsfe1-win...
So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are germinating
in
the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and
decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level?

Andy


"Cereus-validus" wrote in message
. ..
Well, isn't that special?

When you think they are talking back is when you really know you have a
problem!!!


"Kevin Groves" wrote in message
...
I dont care, I will still talk to my plants.
Kev,

Do plants have brain?
 

Not so Paul Atreides.

The Mimosa plant quickly folds up its leaves because of a rapid drop in
water pressure akin to wilting. No nervous system is needed at all.

You really should read up on your basic botany instead making wild flights
of fantasy. The truth is far more interesting.


"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message CUxgc.11$mv.3@newsfe1-win
from "Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt"
contains these words:

It may seem a silly question but I have heard that the plants have
"lesser brain", the seat of instincts.

Some plants will react to being touched by rapidly becoming flaccid, so
some sort of nervous system could be involved.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

Do plants have brain?
 

In article ,
"Cereus-validus" writes:
|
| The Mimosa plant quickly folds up its leaves because of a rapid drop in
| water pressure akin to wilting. No nervous system is needed at all.
|
| You really should read up on your basic botany instead making wild flights
| of fantasy. The truth is far more interesting.

It would a hell of a lot easier to see what you are wittering about
if you didn't both top post and leave the previous posting unedited.
Please do not be so lazy and inconsiderate.

Wilting is (largely) a loss of turgidity due to the water
evaporating - i.e. a direct effect. Mimosa pudica's response to
touch necessarily involves a more complex mechanism; in particular,
the response is not entirely local, which implies some degree of
communication. And nerves are nothing more than communication
links.

A far better analogy is the mechanism used for water transport
between the roots and leaves of a tree. No nervous system is
involved, but it is NOT as simple a mechanism as simple wilting.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Do plants have brain?
 

Not so Paul Atreides.

For he IS the Kwisatz Haderach . . .


The Mimosa plant quickly folds up its leaves because of a rapid drop in
water pressure akin to wilting. No nervous system is needed at all.

Venus flytrap?


You really should read up on your basic botany instead making wild flights
of fantasy. The truth is far more interesting.

An old teacher of mine once pointed out that there can never be such a thing
as "extra-sensory perception", because perception by its very nature
requires sensation.

Arguments for the behaviour of plants being biology-based can be used
equally for people too - a scientific approach will boil our every action,
emotion and decision down to electrochemical processes in our brain, just as
the analysis of a car engine will reveal all the different moving parts and
how they fit together. But if you look for the _velocity_ in the engine, you
won't find it, just as if you look for the _soul_ in a person's body you
won't find it. Similarly, if you look for the _growth_ in a plant, you won't
find it . . .

Andy
"A ten-year-old child could understand this. Go out and find me a
ten-year-old child" - Marx

Do plants have brain?
 

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:46 +0100, Andy Hunt wrote:

Similarly, if you look for the _growth_ in a plant, you won't
find it . . .

I know what you mean, but as I said elsewhere, who decides what is
consciousness? And how? Boiling it down again you end up with "I think,
therefore I am" and that's all you can prove. Well, *YOU* can't prove it,
because you're just a figment of my imagination, but *I* can.

What is your personal definition of consciousness? Are viruses conscious?
Bacteria? Fungi? Algae? Apple-trees? Sponges? Jellyfish? Octopuses? Fish?
Humans?
If some of these are conscious then why? And why not the others? That's the
hard bit; trying to identify the boiled-down chemical processes which make
something self-aware. Or even to reach a consensus on what is actually
meant by consciousness.
--
Tim C.

Do plants have brain?
 

Why don't you go back to contemplating your navel, Tiny Tim, take your New
Age drivel to some newsgroup more appropriate where they might take you
silliness seriously and not show everyone in this one just how flaky you
are?

If you took a poll here, the overwhelming majority would
say you and your twinkie friends lack any consciousness.

I would recommend you stay away from woodlands lest you be attacked by
squirrels. Those critters already know what you are!


"Tim Challenger" "timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at" wrote in message
s.com...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:46 +0100, Andy Hunt wrote:

Similarly, if you look for the _growth_ in a plant, you won't
find it . . .

I know what you mean, but as I said elsewhere, who decides what is
consciousness? And how? Boiling it down again you end up with "I think,
therefore I am" and that's all you can prove. Well, *YOU* can't prove it,
because you're just a figment of my imagination, but *I* can.

What is your personal definition of consciousness? Are viruses conscious?
Bacteria? Fungi? Algae? Apple-trees? Sponges? Jellyfish? Octopuses?
Fish?
Humans?
If some of these are conscious then why? And why not the others? That's
the
hard bit; trying to identify the boiled-down chemical processes which make
something self-aware. Or even to reach a consensus on what is actually
meant by consciousness.
--
Tim C.

Do plants have brain?
 

The topic has been studies in detail many times over the years, even by
Charles Darwin, and there is no doubt that the various responses to stimuli
by plants have nothing at all to do with any type of intelligence. The topic
is the subject of many books and all anyone need to do is read them. If one
had been awake during any basic botany class they would know the truth about
plant physiology.

That some New Age clowns are too lazy to actually do any real research into
the subject show just how ignorant and stupid they really are and that they
should not be given any serious consideration at all. They have been
watching too much bad sci-fi on TV. They are clueless about the scientific
method and how to apply it to even the most basic problems.

In any case, the extent of their ineptitude has noting to do with gardening.


"Andy Hunt" wrote in message
news:2O6hc.20874$4N3.2404@newsfe1-win...

Not so Paul Atreides.

For he IS the Kwisatz Haderach . . .


The Mimosa plant quickly folds up its leaves because of a rapid drop in
water pressure akin to wilting. No nervous system is needed at all.

Venus flytrap?


You really should read up on your basic botany instead making wild
flights
of fantasy. The truth is far more interesting.

An old teacher of mine once pointed out that there can never be such a
thing
as "extra-sensory perception", because perception by its very nature
requires sensation.

Arguments for the behaviour of plants being biology-based can be used
equally for people too - a scientific approach will boil our every action,
emotion and decision down to electrochemical processes in our brain, just
as
the analysis of a car engine will reveal all the different moving parts
and
how they fit together. But if you look for the _velocity_ in the engine,
you
won't find it, just as if you look for the _soul_ in a person's body you
won't find it. Similarly, if you look for the _growth_ in a plant, you
won't
find it . . .

Andy
"A ten-year-old child could understand this. Go out and find me a
ten-year-old child" - Marx

Do plants have brain?
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article yrOgc.45$oI2.0@newsfe1-win,
"Andy Hunt" writes:
| So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are germinating in
| the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and
| decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level?
No. How does water know which way is down when it is running down a
slope? How does a compass know to point north?



No. It slightly goes against the grain to recommend anything by
Richard Dawkins (he is widely regarded as a pain in the a*** by
other scientists)
Not by any scientists I know. I don't know many zoologists and
biologists though, so maybe in his own area he not so well thought off.
Is there a reason for this, has he upset them in some way or is it just
because he's famous?

, but his books do explain how this for of thing
develops without consciousness.
They do indeed.

Roger Penrose also wrote a couple of excellent book on conciousness
called "Shadows of the Mind" and "The Emperor's New Mind".

Do plants have brain?
 

No doubt.
http://www.friesian.com/penrose.htm

http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/ps...6-moravec.html

But what does it have to do with gardening?


"Steve Haigh" wrote in message
...
Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article yrOgc.45$oI2.0@newsfe1-win,
"Andy Hunt" writes:
| So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are
germinating in
| the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and
| decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level?
No. How does water know which way is down when it is running down a
slope? How does a compass know to point north?



No. It slightly goes against the grain to recommend anything by
Richard Dawkins (he is widely regarded as a pain in the a*** by
other scientists)
Not by any scientists I know. I don't know many zoologists and
biologists though, so maybe in his own area he not so well thought off.
Is there a reason for this, has he upset them in some way or is it just
because he's famous?

, but his books do explain how this for of thing
develops without consciousness.
They do indeed.

Roger Penrose also wrote a couple of excellent book on conciousness
called "Shadows of the Mind" and "The Emperor's New Mind".

Do plants have brain?
 

Cereus-validus wrote:
No doubt.
http://www.friesian.com/penrose.htm

http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/ps...6-moravec.html

But what does it have to do with gardening?


"Steve Haigh" wrote in message
...

Nick Maclaren wrote:


In article yrOgc.45$oI2.0@newsfe1-win,
"Andy Hunt" writes:
| So how do plants know which way is 'up', then, when they are

germinating in

| the dark . . . ? Does this not imply some sort of perceptive and
| decision-making capability, albeit on a fairly mundane level?

No. How does water know which way is down when it is running down a
slope? How does a compass know to point north?



No. It slightly goes against the grain to recommend anything by
Richard Dawkins (he is widely regarded as a pain in the a*** by
other scientists)

Not by any scientists I know. I don't know many zoologists and
biologists though, so maybe in his own area he not so well thought off.
Is there a reason for this, has he upset them in some way or is it just
because he's famous?


, but his books do explain how this for of thing
develops without consciousness.

They do indeed.

Roger Penrose also wrote a couple of excellent book on conciousness
called "Shadows of the Mind" and "The Emperor's New Mind".


I'm not sure, but then this thread appears to have nothing to do with
gardening anyway. After reading Penrose's books I'm not even sure I have
a brain. But I must do, 'cos I don't top post;-)

Do plants have brain?
 

In article ,
Steve Haigh wrote:

No. It slightly goes against the grain to recommend anything by
Richard Dawkins (he is widely regarded as a pain in the a*** by
other scientists)

Not by any scientists I know. I don't know many zoologists and
biologists though, so maybe in his own area he not so well thought off.
Is there a reason for this, has he upset them in some way or is it just
because he's famous?

It is because of his self-publicity and dogmatism.

, but his books do explain how this for of thing
develops without consciousness.

They do indeed.

Even his opponents admit that he is not a fool, his ideas are not
demented, and he can write fairly well.

Roger Penrose also wrote a couple of excellent book on conciousness
called "Shadows of the Mind" and "The Emperor's New Mind".

Er, watch out. He is widely regarded as having flipped his lid when
he retired from real mathematics to ride his hobbyhorses. Those
books may LOOK good but, if you know enough about the area to tell
flannelling from science, you are less impressed.

In particular, his claim that human consciousness is not subject to
the Turing/Goedel limits is unjustified and his evidence fallacious.
And his theory of quantum gravity being the source of consciousness
is reminiscent of L. Ron Hubbard.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Do plants have brain?
 

That some New Age clowns

Who are these people of whom you speak? The old teacher of mine to whom I
was referring was a man called Stafford Beer. If you do a 'google' search,
you'll soon discover that your label is somewhat wide of the mark.

are too lazy to actually do any real research into
the subject show just how ignorant and stupid they really are and that
they
should not be given any serious consideration at all. They have been
watching too much bad sci-fi on TV. They are clueless about the scientific
method and how to apply it to even the most basic problems.

I am very well aware of the theory of geotropism etc, although you somewhat
dangerously assume that I am not. I got my 'A' at 'O' level biology, and do
still recall the subject matter. I believe wholeheartedly in science as a
tool of consciousness, but at the same time I'm very much aware that the
reductionist nature of science can lead us into a 'false sense of
obscurity'. A plant is an autopoietic viable system which has the requisite
variety to comprehend and adapt to its environment in the same way that a
human being has. Both systems necessarily have ways of perceiving that
environment, and ways of reacting to that environment. The biological
details may differ, but the purpose is the same.

I was merely pointing out that biology isn't necessarily the whole story.
Then again, I do believe in a "Creator", so I possibly _do_ belong to the
lunatic "New Age" fringe of which you are so fond.


In any case, the extent of their ineptitude has noting to do with
gardening.

Ever read the parable of the tares . . . ? Or of the vineyard? There are
some pretty decent gardening tips in the NT if you ask me! Roll on the great
harvest . . .

Andy

Do plants have brain?
 

We will miss you most of all, Scarecrow.

Any way you look at it, this newsgroup is about gardening and not you nor
what you believe.


"Andy Hunt" wrote in message
news:_1ehc.20964$4N3.18169@newsfe1-win...


That some New Age clowns

Who are these people of whom you speak? The old teacher of mine to whom I
was referring was a man called Stafford Beer. If you do a 'google' search,
you'll soon discover that your label is somewhat wide of the mark.

are too lazy to actually do any real research into
the subject show just how ignorant and stupid they really are and that
they
should not be given any serious consideration at all. They have been
watching too much bad sci-fi on TV. They are clueless about the
scientific
method and how to apply it to even the most basic problems.

I am very well aware of the theory of geotropism etc, although you
somewhat
dangerously assume that I am not. I got my 'A' at 'O' level biology, and
do
still recall the subject matter. I believe wholeheartedly in science as a
tool of consciousness, but at the same time I'm very much aware that the
reductionist nature of science can lead us into a 'false sense of
obscurity'. A plant is an autopoietic viable system which has the
requisite
variety to comprehend and adapt to its environment in the same way that a
human being has. Both systems necessarily have ways of perceiving that
environment, and ways of reacting to that environment. The biological
details may differ, but the purpose is the same.

I was merely pointing out that biology isn't necessarily the whole story.
Then again, I do believe in a "Creator", so I possibly _do_ belong to the
lunatic "New Age" fringe of which you are so fond.


In any case, the extent of their ineptitude has noting to do with
gardening.

Ever read the parable of the tares . . . ? Or of the vineyard? There are
some pretty decent gardening tips in the NT if you ask me! Roll on the
great
harvest . . .

Andy

Do plants have brain?
 

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:50:02 GMT, Cereus-validus wrote:

Why don't you go back to contemplating your navel, Tiny Tim, take your New
Age drivel to some newsgroup more appropriate where they might take you
silliness seriously and not show everyone in this one just how flaky you
are?

If you took a poll here, the overwhelming majority would
say you and your twinkie friends lack any consciousness.

I would recommend you stay away from woodlands lest you be attacked by
squirrels. Those critters already know what you are!

"Tim Challenger" "timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at" wrote in message
s.com...
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:12:46 +0100, Andy Hunt wrote:

Similarly, if you look for the _growth_ in a plant, you won't
find it . . .

I know what you mean, but as I said elsewhere, who decides what is
consciousness? And how? Boiling it down again you end up with "I think,
therefore I am" and that's all you can prove. Well, *YOU* can't prove it,
because you're just a figment of my imagination, but *I* can.

What is your personal definition of consciousness? Are viruses conscious?
Bacteria? Fungi? Algae? Apple-trees? Sponges? Jellyfish? Octopuses?
Fish?
Humans?
If some of these are conscious then why? And why not the others? That's
the
hard bit; trying to identify the boiled-down chemical processes which make
something self-aware. Or even to reach a consensus on what is actually
meant by consciousness.
--
Tim C.

What *are* you talking about? Me New Age? That's a laugh. What makes you
think that?

--
Tim C.

Do plants have brain?
 

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:27:42 +0100, Andy Hunt wrote:


That some New Age clowns

Who are these people of whom you speak? The old teacher of mine to whom I
was referring was a man called Stafford Beer. If you do a 'google' search,
you'll soon discover that your label is somewhat wide of the mark.


He seems to think it's me. :-)

--
Tim C.

Do plants have brain?
 

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:12:21 GMT, Cereus-validus wrote:

We will miss you most of all, Scarecrow.

Any way you look at it, this newsgroup is about gardening and not you nor
what you believe.

But then at the last count, out of 34 posts in this thread 10 of them are
from you. In fact, you posted most in this thread.

And why the sudden switch from the apparent intelligence in your earlier
posts to blatant insults? Run out of ideas?

--
Tim C.

Do plants have brain?
 

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:198186

Why are you so paranoid, Challenged Tim?

Are you afraid that the plants might be talking about you behind your back?

You have been counting the number of postings on this silly thread? Your
time would be much better spent tending to your garden, don't you think?


"Tim Challenger" "timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at" wrote in message
s.com...
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:12:21 GMT, Cereus-validus wrote:

We will miss you most of all, Scarecrow.

Any way you look at it, this newsgroup is about gardening and not you
nor
what you believe.

But then at the last count, out of 34 posts in this thread 10 of them are
from you. In fact, you posted most in this thread.

And why the sudden switch from the apparent intelligence in your earlier
posts to blatant insults? Run out of ideas?

--
Tim C.

Do plants have brain?
 

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:34:30 GMT, Cereus-validus wrote:

Why are you so paranoid, Challenged Tim?

Are you afraid that the plants might be talking about you behind your back?

You have been counting the number of postings on this silly thread? Your
time would be much better spent tending to your garden, don't you think?

Absolutely, but as I'm at work....

--
Tim C.