On 6/1/05 17:17, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
On 5/1/05 23:28, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Lazarus
Cooke writes
snip

No- you still talk about 'un porc' in french.

What is the english translation of that? Is it 'pig' or 'pork'?

A pig in French is "un cochon" and the dictionary gives "un porc" too. I've
never heard the latter used to describe a pig but only to describe the meat
as in "cotelette de porc" for example.

Taken with your other post, it suggests either the Normans were using
'un porc' for the pig and we picked up it up for the meat, and that
French moved on to 'cochon' later, or that the normans used 'porc' for
the meat only. Either way around fits into the pattern.

What about 'poultry'? Am I right in thinking it's derived from 'poulet'?

Do I get a grade for this? ;-) Poult (according to the same dictionary)
is the young of domestic fowl and game birds XV. Middle English, pult,
contr. of poulet PULLET So (arch.) poulter Old French pouletier extended
to poulterer XVII prob. After poultry, earlier pulletrie etc.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)

In article , Sacha
writes

Do I get a grade for this? ;-) Poult (according to the same dictionary)
is the young of domestic fowl and game birds XV. Middle English, pult,
contr. of poulet PULLET So (arch.) poulter Old French pouletier extended
to poulterer XVII prob. After poultry, earlier pulletrie etc.

Interesting!

I hardly dare ask you this ... but what is the derivation of 'venison'?
And 'veal'? Are there any other meats which aren't simply called by the
name of the animal? I won't start on the bits of animal - why 'lights'
for example?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Kay writes:

In article , Sacha
writes

Do I get a grade for this? ;-) Poult (according to the same dictionary)
is the young of domestic fowl and game birds XV. Middle English, pult,
contr. of poulet PULLET So (arch.) poulter Old French pouletier extended
to poulterer XVII prob. After poultry, earlier pulletrie etc.

Interesting!

I hardly dare ask you this ... but what is the derivation of 'venison'?
And 'veal'? Are there any other meats which aren't simply called by the
name of the animal? I won't start on the bits of animal - why 'lights'
for example?

The OED says that:

Venison is from the old French "veneson" from the Latin "venationem"
which means "the act of hunting". It was originally anything edible
killed in a hunt.

Veal is from the old French "veel" (modern French "veau") from the
Latin "vitulus" meaning a calf.

OTOH "calf" is Anglo-Saxon and is related to the modern German
"kalbe".

So veal/calf follows the Norman/Anglo-Saxon meat/animal rule.

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Alan

--
Alan Williams, Room IT301, School of Computer Science,
University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, U.K.
Tel: +44 161 275 6270 Fax: +44 161 275 6280

On 7/1/05 8:55, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

Do I get a grade for this? ;-) Poult (according to the same dictionary)
is the young of domestic fowl and game birds XV. Middle English, pult,
contr. of poulet PULLET So (arch.) poulter Old French pouletier extended
to poulterer XVII prob. After poultry, earlier pulletrie etc.

Interesting!

I hardly dare ask you this ... but what is the derivation of 'venison'?
And 'veal'? Are there any other meats which aren't simply called by the
name of the animal? I won't start on the bits of animal - why 'lights'
for example?

Veal comes from old French, velaus (obl) veel And the Latin is vitellus,
diminutive of vitulus (calf). Of course modern French for veal *and* a calf
is 'veau'.
"Venison flesh of an animal killed in the chase XIII: (arch.) beast of the
chase XIV. ME veneso(u)n. OF veneso(u)n, -ison (mod. Venaison): L.
venatio, -on- hunting, game, f. venari hunt" (The 'f' there means 'formed
on')
Incidentally, I asked my French niece about what a pig is known as in French
- the animal, rather than the meat and she is firm that it is 'cochon'.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article , Sacha
writes
On 7/1/05 8:55, in article , "Kay"
wrote:
Interesting!

I hardly dare ask you this ... but what is the derivation of 'venison'?
And 'veal'? Are there any other meats which aren't simply called by the
name of the animal? I won't start on the bits of animal - why 'lights'
for example?

Veal comes from old French, velaus (obl) veel And the Latin is vitellus,

Yes, I know that one - I think there is a cowrie with that as the
specific name.

diminutive of vitulus (calf). Of course modern French for veal *and* a calf
is 'veau'.
"Venison flesh of an animal killed in the chase XIII: (arch.) beast of the
chase XIV. ME veneso(u)n. OF veneso(u)n, -ison (mod. Venaison): L.
venatio, -on- hunting, game, f. venari hunt" (The 'f' there means 'formed
on')
Incidentally, I asked my French niece about what a pig is known as in French
- the animal, rather than the meat and she is firm that it is 'cochon'.

That's what I remembered from O level french buit I wouldn't back my o
level french knowledge against anyone else's knowledge of french, let
alone a french woman's.

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

On 8/1/05 16:37, in article , "Kay"
wrote:
snip
Incidentally, I asked my French niece about what a pig is known as in French
- the animal, rather than the meat and she is firm that it is 'cochon'.

That's what I remembered from O level french buit I wouldn't back my o
level french knowledge against anyone else's knowledge of french, let
alone a french woman's.

Of course, it's still possible that a local dialect would talk of "un porc"
but 'proper' French is "un cochon". In Jersey French, for example, a snail
is called 'un colînmachon' *and* 'un escargot' but in good French it's 'un
escargot'.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article ,
Sacha wrote:
On 8/1/05 16:37, in article , "Kay"
wrote:
snip
Incidentally, I asked my French niece about what a pig is known as in French
- the animal, rather than the meat and she is firm that it is 'cochon'.

That's what I remembered from O level french buit I wouldn't back my o
level french knowledge against anyone else's knowledge of french, let
alone a french woman's.

Of course, it's still possible that a local dialect would talk of "un porc"
but 'proper' French is "un cochon". In Jersey French, for example, a snail
is called 'un colînmachon' *and* 'un escargot' but in good French it's 'un
escargot'.

I don't think that's it, nor do I think that the teacher is right.

If a teacher was asked the same question for English, the normal
answer would be 'pig', but there would be absolutely nothing WRONG
with 'swine'. It is just not the normal word nowadays.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Sacha
writes

Do I get a grade for this? ;-) Poult (according to the same
dictionary)
is the young of domestic fowl and game birds XV. Middle English,
pult,
contr. of poulet PULLET So (arch.) poulter Old French pouletier
extended
to poulterer XVII prob. After poultry, earlier pulletrie etc.

Interesting!

I hardly dare ask you this ... but what is the derivation of
'venison'?

{:-))

And 'veal'? Are there any other meats which aren't simply called by
the
name of the animal? I won't start on the bits of animal - why
'lights'
for example?

Or "amourettes"?

Franz