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#1
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Mike Lyle wrote:
:: Phil L wrote: ::: Mike Lyle wrote: ::::: Phil L wrote: ::: So? ::: My dad was a painter and decorator but he didn't pay the ::: government to pass a law stating that all DIY decorating should ::: be banned. :: :: You are certainly far too intelligent to imagine that I'm not :: intelligent enough to see why that's a load of dulux. So who is :: your target audience? :: I don't know what your talking about here - I'm saying that DIY is a free-for-all, whether it's decorating the lounge or taking cuttings from your neighbours plants. ::: You have to be a qualified electrician to do electrical work and ::: be a member of 'FENSA' to replace glass... :: :: Where? Since when? By whose rules? :: In the UK. since April 2002. Building regulations. http://www.fensa.co.uk/homeowners.html ::: ::: Why? - if I've had fuchsias growing for the past 20 years and ::: decide to flog 12 dozen cuttings to the corner shop, what harm ::: has been done? - his regular supplier has lost a few quid? :: :: Again, if you follow urg you're surely far too intelligent to :: imagine that that is what plant breeders' rights are about. So why :: say it? Err..I'm fairly new here and haven't got a clue what plant breeders rights are, if they are anything like songwriters' copyrights etc, then I don't think they have a leg to stand on, once something (whether it's Elton's new track or a brand new bloom) is out 'in the wilderness', it's a free-for-all again - you can't stop people from collecting seeds or taking cuttings so why try? -- If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs. |
#2
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Phil L wrote:
Mike Lyle wrote: [...] You have to be a qualified electrician to do electrical work and be a member of 'FENSA' to replace glass... Where? Since when? By whose rules? In the UK. since April 2002. Building regulations. http://www.fensa.co.uk/homeowners.html Others have commented already, but here's my twopennnorth. There's nothing new about Building Regs. I've looked at the site, and I can certainly replace a pane of glass myself without being a member of anything. What's involved here is _replacement installation_, not repair. Replacement windows and doors have to meet new requirements, that's all: and that's a very good thing. A sample from the site: Where a window or windows is/are completely replaced (as opposed to repaired) in existing dwellings, they must comply with Approved Documents Parts L1 and N (safety in relation to impact). And you don't have to be a qualified electrician to do electrical work. You have to meet the regs, that's all. It's been true all my life, give or take a detail or two. It seems the FENSA thing is just a hassle-saving measure you should approve of: as I read it, some installers will be allowed to self-certify instead of waiting for Building Control to come out and check. On music copyright, no, it isn't just a free-for-all: there are rules, and everybody in the business knows them. [...] HTH, -- Mike. |
#3
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"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... snip there's nothing new about Building Regs. I've looked at the site, and I can certainly replace a pane of glass myself without being a member of anything. What's involved here is _replacement installation_, not repair. Replacement windows and doors have to meet new requirements, that's all: and that's a very good thing. A sample from the site: Where a window or windows is/are completely replaced (as opposed to repaired) in existing dwellings, they must comply with Approved Documents Parts L1 and N (safety in relation to impact). And you don't have to be a qualified electrician to do electrical work. You have to meet the regs, that's all. It's been true all my life, give or take a detail or two. Whats the site? I've just replaced a number of internal doors, would be interesting to see what regs apply to a door! I wonder if a door purchased from a DIY store would anyway meet the regs? And how would someone buying my house in say 5 years time know if they had been replaced/met the regs? -- Tumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com |
#4
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Tumbleweed wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... snip there's nothing new about Building Regs. I've looked at the site, and I can certainly replace a pane of glass myself without being a member of anything. What's involved here is _replacement installation_, not repair. Replacement windows and doors have to meet new requirements, that's all: and that's a very good thing. A sample from the site: Where a window or windows is/are completely replaced (as opposed to repaired) in existing dwellings, they must comply with Approved Documents Parts L1 and N (safety in relation to impact). And you don't have to be a qualified electrician to do electrical work. You have to meet the regs, that's all. It's been true all my life, give or take a detail or two. Whats the site? I've just replaced a number of internal doors, would be interesting to see what regs apply to a door! I wonder if a door purchased from a DIY store would anyway meet the regs? And how would someone buying my house in say 5 years time know if they had been replaced/met the regs? The site is: http://www.fensa.co.uk/faq.html#1 I can't imagine what relevance it might have to _interior_ doors. Well, I suppose there must be something to stop idiots using ordinary glass at child height in interior doors, but you wouldn't have done that. I don't know when you last sold a house, but these days purchasers' surveyors are extremely picky and own-arse-covering (I bear the psychological scars a year later!) It helps a lot if you've got evidence of Building Regs approval, too; a certificate from a FENSA member is apparently equivalent. -- Mike. |
#5
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"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Tumbleweed wrote: "Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... snip there's nothing new about Building Regs. I've looked at the site, and I can certainly replace a pane of glass myself without being a member of anything. What's involved here is _replacement installation_, not repair. Replacement windows and doors have to meet new requirements, that's all: and that's a very good thing. A sample from the site: Where a window or windows is/are completely replaced (as opposed to repaired) in existing dwellings, they must comply with Approved Documents Parts L1 and N (safety in relation to impact). And you don't have to be a qualified electrician to do electrical work. You have to meet the regs, that's all. It's been true all my life, give or take a detail or two. Whats the site? I've just replaced a number of internal doors, would be interesting to see what regs apply to a door! I wonder if a door purchased from a DIY store would anyway meet the regs? And how would someone buying my house in say 5 years time know if they had been replaced/met the regs? The site is: http://www.fensa.co.uk/faq.html#1 I can't imagine what relevance it might have to _interior_ doors. Well, I suppose there must be something to stop idiots using ordinary glass at child height in interior doors, but you wouldn't have done that. I don't know when you last sold a house, but these days purchasers' surveyors are extremely picky and own-arse-covering (I bear the psychological scars a year later!) It helps a lot if you've got evidence of Building Regs approval, too; a certificate from a FENSA member is apparently equivalent. But in an old house how would anyone know if the fittings were not original, and who would keep builders bills from 20 or 30 years ago? -- alan reply to alan(dot)holmes27(at)virgin(dot)net |
#6
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Alan Holmes wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in [...] I can't imagine what relevance it might have to _interior_ doors. Well, I suppose there must be something to stop idiots using ordinary glass at child height in interior doors, but you wouldn't have done that. I don't know when you last sold a house, but these days purchasers' surveyors are extremely picky and own-arse-covering (I bear the psychological scars a year later!) It helps a lot if you've got evidence of Building Regs approval, too; a certificate from a FENSA member is apparently equivalent. But in an old house how would anyone know if the fittings were not original, and who would keep builders bills from 20 or 30 years ago? Well, I suppose a professional surveyor could sometimes tell, and sometimes not tell -- I quite strongly suspect he'd get it right more often than not (in a really old house it would usually be obvious to anybody, of course). It's not so much the builder's bills as the Building Regs evidence; but it would be rash to not to keep the bills, as you might want to make a claim. But having just sold a partly-new and partly-old house under the new rules, I very strongly urge everybody to take these things seriously. I lost my first potential purchaser because of an over-cautious surveyor's report: thank Heaven, the next offer came from people whose surveyor expressed himself differently though describing the same things. -- Mike. |
#7
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"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Tumbleweed wrote: "Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... snip there's nothing new about Building Regs. I've looked at the site, and I can certainly replace a pane of glass myself without being a member of anything. What's involved here is _replacement installation_, not repair. Replacement windows and doors have to meet new requirements, that's all: and that's a very good thing. A sample from the site: Where a window or windows is/are completely replaced (as opposed to repaired) in existing dwellings, they must comply with Approved Documents Parts L1 and N (safety in relation to impact). And you don't have to be a qualified electrician to do electrical work. You have to meet the regs, that's all. It's been true all my life, give or take a detail or two. Whats the site? I've just replaced a number of internal doors, would be interesting to see what regs apply to a door! I wonder if a door purchased from a DIY store would anyway meet the regs? And how would someone buying my house in say 5 years time know if they had been replaced/met the regs? The site is: http://www.fensa.co.uk/faq.html#1 I can't imagine what relevance it might have to _interior_ doors. Well, I suppose there must be something to stop idiots using ordinary glass at child height in interior doors, but you wouldn't have done that. I don't know when you last sold a house, but these days purchasers' surveyors are extremely picky and own-arse-covering (I bear the psychological scars a year later!) It helps a lot if you've got evidence of Building Regs approval, too; a certificate from a FENSA member is apparently equivalent. But in an old house how would anyone know if the fittings were not original, and who would keep builders bills from 20 or 30 years ago? -- alan reply to alan(dot)holmes27(at)virgin(dot)net |
#8
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Mike Lyle wrote:
:: Phil L wrote: ::: Mike Lyle wrote: :: [...] :::::: You have to be a qualified electrician to do electrical work :::::: and be a member of 'FENSA' to replace glass... ::::: ::::: Where? Since when? By whose rules? ::::: ::: ::: In the UK. since April 2002. Building regulations. ::: http://www.fensa.co.uk/homeowners.html :: :: Others have commented already, but here's my twopennnorth. :: :: There's nothing new about Building Regs. I've looked at the site, :: and I can certainly replace a pane of glass myself without being a :: member of anything. What's involved here is _replacement :: installation_, not repair. Replacement windows and doors have to :: meet new requirements, that's all: and that's a very good thing. A :: sample from the site: :: :: Where a window or windows is/are completely replaced (as opposed :: to repaired) in existing dwellings, they must comply with Approved :: Documents Parts L1 and N (safety in relation to impact). :: It's not just replacement windows (IE frames) it's glazing in general, the actual frames are never going to fall out and kill someone, but if you install ordinary glass (as opposed to toughened) below a certain height and someone falls into it and cuts themselves or worse, you can go to jail, unless of course you are a member of FENSA, pretty much like the members of CORGI, they are covered, both insurance wise and from those above who carry out 'investigations'. :: And you don't have to be a qualified electrician to do electrical :: work. You have to meet the regs, that's all. It's been true all my :: life, give or take a detail or two. :: :: It seems the FENSA thing is just a hassle-saving measure you should :: approve of: as I read it, some installers will be allowed to :: self-certify instead of waiting for Building Control to come out :: and check. What I'm saying is that these pieces of legislation are in place for no other reason than to line the pockets of those who pushed to get them introduced. :: :: On music copyright, no, it isn't just a free-for-all: there are :: rules, and everybody in the business knows them. :: But the general public just download whatever music they like without fear of the law. -- If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs. |
#9
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Phil L wrote:
Mike Lyle wrote: Phil L wrote: Mike Lyle wrote: [...] You have to be a qualified electrician to do electrical work and be a member of 'FENSA' to replace glass... Where? Since when? By whose rules? In the UK. since April 2002. Building regulations. http://www.fensa.co.uk/homeowners.html Others have commented already, but here's my twopennnorth. There's nothing new about Building Regs. I've looked at the site, and I can certainly replace a pane of glass myself without being a member of anything. What's involved here is _replacement installation_, not repair. Replacement windows and doors have to meet new requirements, that's all: and that's a very good thing. A sample from the site: Where a window or windows is/are completely replaced (as opposed to repaired) in existing dwellings, they must comply with Approved Documents Parts L1 and N (safety in relation to impact). It's not just replacement windows (IE frames) it's glazing in general, the actual frames are never going to fall out and kill someone, but if you install ordinary glass (as opposed to toughened) below a certain height and someone falls into it and cuts themselves or worse, you can go to jail, unless of course you are a member of FENSA, pretty much like the members of CORGI, they are covered, both insurance wise and from those above who carry out 'investigations'. Sorry: didn't see this before posting my last. No, I can't necessarily go to jail for it: nobody mentioned the criminal law. I can be sued, of course, and serve me right; but that costs money, not liberty. And you don't have to be a qualified electrician to do electrical work. You have to meet the regs, that's all. It's been true all my life, give or take a detail or two. It seems the FENSA thing is just a hassle-saving measure you should approve of: as I read it, some installers will be allowed to self-certify instead of waiting for Building Control to come out and check. What I'm saying is that these pieces of legislation are in place for no other reason than to line the pockets of those who pushed to get them introduced. I see no pocket-lining mechanism here. If anything, it may be a tax-saving measure by reducing the need for building inspectors; so I suppose it lines your pockets and mine a little bit. On music copyright, no, it isn't just a free-for-all: there are rules, and everybody in the business knows them. But the general public just download whatever music they like without fear of the law. No doubt, and the industry doesn't like it. But start selling pirate discs on a market stall, and things may get more exciting. -- Mike. |
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