In article , Rodger Whitlock
writes

Now, now, Nick, temper, temper. The USDA zones were devised with
a specific purpose in mind, hardiness of *woody* material in the
continental USA.

Eggsacly - you hit it in one.
And as this is a newsgroup for discussing gardening topics relevant to
the UK, USDA zones, being pretty well nigh useless in the UK, are not
really on topic!!

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

I may be very wrong but I suspect this thread was started in the UK.

HW.
"Jane Ransom" wrote in message
...
In article , Rodger Whitlock
writes

Now, now, Nick, temper, temper. The USDA zones were devised with
a specific purpose in mind, hardiness of *woody* material in the
continental USA.

Eggsacly - you hit it in one.
And as this is a newsgroup for discussing gardening topics relevant to
the UK, USDA zones, being pretty well nigh useless in the UK, are not
really on topic!!

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

In article acx5a.188822$2H6.3374@sccrnsc04,
Anne Middleton/Harold Walker wrote:
"Jane Ransom" wrote in message
...
And as this is a newsgroup for discussing gardening topics relevant to
the UK, USDA zones, being pretty well nigh useless in the UK, are not
really on topic!!

I may be very wrong but I suspect this thread was started in the UK.

You know, you may be right! It was posted by to
uk.rec.gardening, which definitely hints at the possibility.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

Jane Ransom wrote:

In article , Rodger Whitlock
writes

Now, now, Nick, temper, temper. The USDA zones were devised with
a specific purpose in mind, hardiness of *woody* material in the
continental USA.

Eggsacly - you hit it in one.
And as this is a newsgroup for discussing gardening topics relevant to
the UK, USDA zones, being pretty well nigh useless in the UK, are not
really on topic!!
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.

Sorry, but this just isn't true.
If you will check, you will see that all serious British books on
garden plants, in their recent editions, include the USDA zone
system in their plant descriptions. That means they do consider this
relevant information. To mention just a few: the Royal Hortical
Society's "Dictionary of Gardening"; Mark Griffith's "Index of Garden
Plants"; Christopher Grey-Wilson's "Clematis, the Genus"; Mary
Toomey's "Illustrated Encyclopedia of Clematis"; I could go on.
You surely would not consider the info in those British books
off-topic in the UK?
And it is not true that the zone system should only be valid for a
specific group of plants. How could it? It just gives the "average
annual minimum temperatures" for any spot in the world. Of course, it
is true that it was developed and first used for commercial crops in
the US.
I fully agree (as you will see, if you look at the first answer that
was given in this thread) that there are many other factors, which
also influence a plant's survival. But a serious gardener should be
aware of those factors, not close his mind to some of them.
But then, all this has been said before...
Regards,
Roger.

In article , Roger Van Loon
writes
If you will check, you will see that all serious British books on
???***????
garden plants, in their recent editions, include the USDA zone
system in their plant descriptions.

They do??
The ones I have don't!!

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

Roger.......had you been "listened to" in the first place the thread would
have been much smaller.....I grew up in the UK and am very familiar with its
growing conditions......if I returned to the UK and gardened there I
definitely would find a use for the USA plant zones given for the various
plants available throughout the world....many of which would grow very well
in Florida or parts of California for example but would not survive in the
UK....it may come as suprise to some of the folk 'over there', the USA does
have more to offer than Texas guns and bombs.

HW.............

Sorry, but this just isn't true.
If you will check, you will see that all serious British books on
garden plants, in their recent editions, include the USDA zone
system in their plant descriptions. That means they do consider this
relevant information. To mention just a few: the Royal Hortical
Society's "Dictionary of Gardening"; Mark Griffith's "Index of Garden
Plants"; Christopher Grey-Wilson's "Clematis, the Genus"; Mary
Toomey's "Illustrated Encyclopedia of Clematis"; I could go on.
You surely would not consider the info in those British books
off-topic in the UK?
And it is not true that the zone system should only be valid for a
specific group of plants. How could it? It just gives the "average
annual minimum temperatures" for any spot in the world. Of course, it
is true that it was developed and first used for commercial crops in
the US.
I fully agree (as you will see, if you look at the first answer that
was given in this thread) that there are many other factors, which
also influence a plant's survival. But a serious gardener should be
aware of those factors, not close his mind to some of them.
But then, all this has been said before...
Regards,
Roger.

Jane, maybe I should send you one of my UK gardening books that shows the
'zonal ratings' of plants....perhaps mine are newer than yours.

HW
"Jane Ransom" wrote in message
...
In article , Roger Van Loon
writes
If you will check, you will see that all serious British books on
???***????
garden plants, in their recent editions, include the USDA zone
system in their plant descriptions.

They do??
The ones I have don't!!

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

In article , Roger Van Loon
writes

Sorry, but this just isn't true.
If you will check, you will see that all serious British books on
garden plants, in their recent editions, include the USDA zone
system in their plant descriptions. That means they do consider this
relevant information. To mention just a few: the Royal Hortical
Society's "Dictionary of Gardening"; Mark Griffith's "Index of Garden
Plants"; Christopher Grey-Wilson's "Clematis, the Genus"; Mary
Toomey's "Illustrated Encyclopedia of Clematis"; I could go on.
You surely would not consider the info in those British books
off-topic in the UK?

No, but I would consider the possibility that the authors are hoping
their sales will not be limited to the UK.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/

In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Roger Van Loon
writes

Sorry, but this just isn't true.
If you will check, you will see that all serious British books on
garden plants, in their recent editions, include the USDA zone
system in their plant descriptions. That means they do consider this
relevant information. To mention just a few: the Royal Hortical
Society's "Dictionary of Gardening"; Mark Griffith's "Index of Garden
Plants"; Christopher Grey-Wilson's "Clematis, the Genus"; Mary
Toomey's "Illustrated Encyclopedia of Clematis"; I could go on.
You surely would not consider the info in those British books
off-topic in the UK?

No, but I would consider the possibility that the authors are hoping
their sales will not be limited to the UK.

Precisely, only your statement is unreasonably weak. Anyone with
contacts with that sort of publishing knows that most publishers
and editors have had a policy for some decades that one of the MAIN
criterion for accepting a book for publication in the UK is whether
it has potential to sell in the USA.

I have heard that, in some areas of which gardening is one, many or
most of the large publishers will not accept ANY book unless it has
been checked for viability in the USA market and give the go-ahead.
This might have something to do with the ownership of the publishing
houses, of course :-(

Precisely for this reason, a LOT of books get rewritten or heavily
edited to make them more acceptable to the USA market. I can't tell
you for certain whether the inclusion of USDA zones is a blanket
order by editors and publishers, but it is not unlikely. I have seen
references to such orders (for the use of USA measurements) in some
cookery books, where the author denied responsibility in print!

So, without consulting the authors, we have no information whether
they regard those things has having some use or whether they were
told that they would have to include them if they wanted their book
to be published. Or even if they were NOT told, and the editor used
contractual powers to add them after the book was written ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

"Nick MacC":
The market for UK books in the USA is probably as great as the market for
those books in the UK.....without listing the zonal preferences for plants
their value to the American gardener is greatly diminished....I feel sure
that you are aware of that but perhaps others may not be. In my opinion,
for what it is worth, the British gardening books are far superior to those
authored by Americans.

Many over yonder do not realise the vast range of temperatures we have
here.....the winter temps. range from lows of around minus 40 C in some
areas to above 0 c in other areas. The summer temps. have just about as
wide a range with highs ranging from around the 25 C to over 40 C
HW.
wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Roger Van Loon
writes

Sorry, but this just isn't true.
If you will check, you will see that all serious British books on
garden plants, in their recent editions, include the USDA zone
system in their plant descriptions. That means they do consider this
relevant information. To mention just a few: the Royal Hortical
Society's "Dictionary of Gardening"; Mark Griffith's "Index of Garden
Plants"; Christopher Grey-Wilson's "Clematis, the Genus"; Mary
Toomey's "Illustrated Encyclopedia of Clematis"; I could go on.
You surely would not consider the info in those British books
off-topic in the UK?

No, but I would consider the possibility that the authors are hoping
their sales will not be limited to the UK.

Precisely, only your statement is unreasonably weak. Anyone with
contacts with that sort of publishing knows that most publishers
and editors have had a policy for some decades that one of the MAIN
criterion for accepting a book for publication in the UK is whether
it has potential to sell in the USA.

I have heard that, in some areas of which gardening is one, many or
most of the large publishers will not accept ANY book unless it has
been checked for viability in the USA market and give the go-ahead.
This might have something to do with the ownership of the publishing
houses, of course :-(

Precisely for this reason, a LOT of books get rewritten or heavily
edited to make them more acceptable to the USA market. I can't tell
you for certain whether the inclusion of USDA zones is a blanket
order by editors and publishers, but it is not unlikely. I have seen
references to such orders (for the use of USA measurements) in some
cookery books, where the author denied responsibility in print!

So, without consulting the authors, we have no information whether
they regard those things has having some use or whether they were
told that they would have to include them if they wanted their book
to be published. Or even if they were NOT told, and the editor used
contractual powers to add them after the book was written ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

"Roger Van Loon" wrote in message
...
Jane Ransom wrote:

In article , Rodger Whitlock
writes

Now, now, Nick, temper, temper. The USDA zones were devised with
a specific purpose in mind, hardiness of *woody* material in the
continental USA.

Eggsacly - you hit it in one.
And as this is a newsgroup for discussing gardening topics relevant to
the UK, USDA zones, being pretty well nigh useless in the UK, are not
really on topic!!
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.

Sorry, but this just isn't true.
If you will check, you will see that all serious British books on
garden plants, in their recent editions, include the USDA zone
system in their plant descriptions. That means they do consider this
relevant information. To mention just a few: the Royal Hortical
Society's "Dictionary of Gardening"; Mark Griffith's "Index of Garden
Plants"; Christopher Grey-Wilson's "Clematis, the Genus"; Mary
Toomey's "Illustrated Encyclopedia of Clematis"; I could go on.
You surely would not consider the info in those British books
off-topic in the UK?
And it is not true that the zone system should only be valid for a
specific group of plants. How could it? It just gives the "average
annual minimum temperatures" for any spot in the world. Of course, it
is true that it was developed and first used for commercial crops in
the US.
I fully agree (as you will see, if you look at the first answer that
was given in this thread) that there are many other factors, which
also influence a plant's survival. But a serious gardener should be
aware of those factors, not close his mind to some of them.
But then, all this has been said before...

For some inexplicable reason you americans seem to overlook the
fact that we do not have 'Zones' we have 'weather'!

Alan
--
Reply to alan(at)windsor-berks(dot)freeserve(dot)co(dot)uk

"Jane Ransom" wrote in message
...
In article , Roger Van Loon
writes
If you will check, you will see that all serious British books on
???***????
garden plants, in their recent editions, include the USDA zone
system in their plant descriptions.

They do??
The ones I have don't!!

Nor mine!

Alan
--
Reply to alan(at)windsor-berks(dot)freeserve(dot)co(dot)uk

"Alan Holmes" alan@holmes-
For some inexplicable reason you americans seem to overlook the
fact that we do not have 'Zones' we have 'weather'!
Alan


You may not have "zones" but you surely have regional differences......I
suspect that a number of plants can be grown in the South West of the UK
that cannot be grown up in the north country.......zones/regions.......a
rose by any other name is still a rose......being a Yank intruding upon your
site, albeit a newcomer one, I could be very wrong.....to that I readily
admit.

HW.

In article , Anne
Middleton/Harold Walker writes
You may not have "zones" but you surely have regional differences......I
suspect that a number of plants can be grown in the South West of the UK
that cannot be grown up in the north country.

We certainly do . . . like the fact that we can grow palm trees in the
north west of Scotland but not in the south east of england!!!!!!!!

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

See below////////
suspect that a number of plants can be grown in the South West of the UK
that cannot be grown up in the north country.

We certainly do . . . like the fact that we can grow palm trees in the
north west of Scotland but not in the south east of
england!!!!!!!!////////////I thought it would be the other way
around....palm trees down in the Cornwall area but not in
Scotland.........HW.

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com