Hey Guys:

We just logged 7 acres and need to replant at a rate of 300 trees per acre.
So how far apart do we plants the plugs?

The forester who's administering the program is the same guy who is selling
us the seedlings. I didn't think that was allowed. Is it? He's a state
forester,
who co-owns the tree nursery. He says we're "required" to buy trees from
him. WTF, over?

Anyway, all of the neighbors who have bought his trees say they've had a
60-90% death rate on trees. What's the normal loss on white spruce? On
lodgepole pine? On larch?

Any/all advice is welcome. We have a neighbor who ran planting crews in
Oregon. He's going to line his kids out as our planters, but we want to do this
right. We can't afford to buy 2100 trees that are all going to die. Our cows
winter and calve in that woodlot. They need a "woodlot" for winter protection.
(We're building "cow condos" out of some of the sawlogs we salvaged from the
logging for the girls, until we can get trees growing in there again.)

TIA,
Jan in southcentral Alaska (59 N., 149W. I think)

Jan Flora wrote:

Hey Guys:

We just logged 7 acres and need to replant at a rate of 300 trees per
acre. So how far apart do we plants the plugs?

The forester who's administering the program is the same guy who is
selling us the seedlings. I didn't think that was allowed. Is it? He's a
state forester,
who co-owns the tree nursery. He says we're "required" to buy trees from
him. WTF, over?

Anyway, all of the neighbors who have bought his trees say they've had a
60-90% death rate on trees. What's the normal loss on white spruce? On
lodgepole pine? On larch?

Any/all advice is welcome. We have a neighbor who ran planting crews in
Oregon. He's going to line his kids out as our planters, but we want to do
this right. We can't afford to buy 2100 trees that are all going to die.
Our cows winter and calve in that woodlot. They need a "woodlot" for
winter protection. (We're building "cow condos" out of some of the sawlogs
we salvaged from the logging for the girls, until we can get trees growing
in there again.)

TIA,
Jan in southcentral Alaska (59 N., 149W. I think)




I think 300 trees per acre works out to 12ft x 12ft.And acre is 43560sq.ft.
Divided by 300 trees is 145.2 sqft per tree. 12 by 12 is 144 so I think
that should work. It's Monday morning so I could be all wrong.

Now for this forester type guy telling you that you have to by your trees
from him; it sounds plain wrong to me but it could be a requirement by the
state. Maybe a call to your local Forest Service office is in order? I'm
not sure how Alaska works but that would be my first move. (Does state
forester mean he works for the state?)

A 60-90% loss is way too high. He must be planting an off-site species.
What kind of trees were there in the first place?

Joe Shmoe wrote:
Jan Flora wrote:


Hey Guys:

We just logged 7 acres and need to replant at a rate of 300 trees per
acre. So how far apart do we plants the plugs?

The forester who's administering the program is the same guy who is
selling us the seedlings. I didn't think that was allowed. Is it? He's a
state forester,
who co-owns the tree nursery. He says we're "required" to buy trees from
him. WTF, over?

Anyway, all of the neighbors who have bought his trees say they've had a
60-90% death rate on trees. What's the normal loss on white spruce? On
lodgepole pine? On larch?

Any/all advice is welcome. We have a neighbor who ran planting crews in
Oregon. He's going to line his kids out as our planters, but we want to do
this right. We can't afford to buy 2100 trees that are all going to die.
Our cows winter and calve in that woodlot. They need a "woodlot" for
winter protection. (We're building "cow condos" out of some of the sawlogs
we salvaged from the logging for the girls, until we can get trees growing
in there again.)

TIA,
Jan in southcentral Alaska (59 N., 149W. I think)





I think 300 trees per acre works out to 12ft x 12ft.And acre is 43560sq.ft.
Divided by 300 trees is 145.2 sqft per tree. 12 by 12 is 144 so I think
that should work. It's Monday morning so I could be all wrong.

Now for this forester type guy telling you that you have to by your trees
from him; it sounds plain wrong to me but it could be a requirement by the
state. Maybe a call to your local Forest Service office is in order? I'm
not sure how Alaska works but that would be my first move. (Does state
forester mean he works for the state?)

A 60-90% loss is way too high. He must be planting an off-site species.
What kind of trees were there in the first place?

yep. White Spruce/ Larch / Lodgepole sounds like interior forest. Is
there any market for hardwoods up there?

This is pretty late in the season to be planting unless you can expect
cool temps and rain for the next month. And 60 to 90% survival at one
year and five years is what you want, not the other way around. In your
area, is brush competition or browse the bigger problem?

If your forester is selling trees as well as providing consulting
services you may get a cost advantage if you bargain. I'm sure shipping
seedlings in is expensive. Good luck!

(Jan Flora) writes:

Anyway, all of the neighbors who have bought his trees say they've had a
60-90% death rate on trees. What's the normal loss on white spruce? On
lodgepole pine? On larch?

Any/all advice is welcome. We have a neighbor who ran planting crews in
Oregon. He's going to line his kids out as our planters, but we want to do this
right. We can't afford to buy 2100 trees that are all going to die. Our cows
winter and calve in that woodlot. They need a "woodlot" for winter protection.
(We're building "cow condos" out of some of the sawlogs we salvaged from the
logging for the girls, until we can get trees growing in there again.)

Your cows will kill most of the trees unless you protect them. 10% to
40% survival in a cow pasture sounds about right. You can put a mesh
sock over them to protect them until they get established, but you have
to pull the sock up every year to avoid deforming the seedling. The tree
will eventually grow through it, but cows will turn it into a shrub until
it manages to grow past the browse line. That may take a decade or more
if the cows are hungry. Not that you probably care. You are replanting
to provide a payday for somebody 50 years from now, when you are dead and
gone. In that perspective, an extra decade doesn't mean squat.

Your forester buddy may be scamming you. A good price for 2-0 seedlings
is $0.20. Your 2100 trees should only cost you $420, or at least that is
what I would pay here in Oregon. Prices for trees in Alaska may be
like the price of a can of beans. You can also buy from anybody you want
to buy from, so get quotes from any nursery you can find, and include
guaranteed delivery dates in the quote. Local seedlings from your micro-
climate, altitude, etc. are the best. Plant as early in the spring as it
thaws enough to dig. If the sap is rising in the trees, the seedlings
are already breaking dormancy. Refrigeration will hold them for a while,
but the seedlings are dying every day they are out of the ground.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

In article , Joe Shmoe
wrote:

Jan Flora wrote:

Hey Guys:

We just logged 7 acres and need to replant at a rate of 300 trees per
acre. So how far apart do we plants the plugs?

The forester who's administering the program is the same guy who is
selling us the seedlings. I didn't think that was allowed. Is it? He's a
state forester,
who co-owns the tree nursery. He says we're "required" to buy trees from
him. WTF, over?

Anyway, all of the neighbors who have bought his trees say they've had a
60-90% death rate on trees. What's the normal loss on white spruce? On
lodgepole pine? On larch?

Any/all advice is welcome. We have a neighbor who ran planting crews in
Oregon. He's going to line his kids out as our planters, but we want to do
this right. We can't afford to buy 2100 trees that are all going to die.
Our cows winter and calve in that woodlot. They need a "woodlot" for
winter protection. (We're building "cow condos" out of some of the sawlogs
we salvaged from the logging for the girls, until we can get trees growing
in there again.)

TIA,
Jan in southcentral Alaska (59 N., 149W. I think)




I think 300 trees per acre works out to 12ft x 12ft.And acre is 43560sq.ft.
Divided by 300 trees is 145.2 sqft per tree. 12 by 12 is 144 so I think
that should work. It's Monday morning so I could be all wrong.

No, I think your calcs sound right, even if it is monday : )

Now for this forester type guy telling you that you have to by your trees
from him; it sounds plain wrong to me but it could be a requirement by the
state. Maybe a call to your local Forest Service office is in order? I'm
not sure how Alaska works but that would be my first move. (Does state
forester mean he works for the state?)

A 60-90% loss is way too high. He must be planting an off-site species.
What kind of trees were there in the first place?

White and lutz spruce with some scattered birch was the native stand. The
spruce bark beetles killed all of the spruce in this area. (The Kenai
Peninsula.)

I want to transplant our own trees, as I've got thousands of seedlings in other
places on the property. (Every where we've run the dozer and scarified the
land.)
Does that sound reasonable?

Jan

My impression is the guy works for the state. I've tried to keep my distance
from this whole hooey, as it seems a tad shadey to me.

In article , mike hagen
wrote:

Joe Shmoe wrote:
Jan Flora wrote:

[...]

yep. White Spruce/ Larch / Lodgepole sounds like interior forest. Is
there any market for hardwoods up there?

Not really. There's a small local market for sawn spruce. We have our
own mills and mill all of the lumber we need on our place. (We're using
the Western bandsaw mill lately. It's a nice little machine.)

This is pretty late in the season to be planting unless you can expect
cool temps and rain for the next month. And 60 to 90% survival at one
year and five years is what you want, not the other way around. In your
area, is brush competition or browse the bigger problem?

I'm sure it'll start raining as soon as we start mowing our hay crop : )
Right now, it's hot and dry and windy.

Calamagrastis canadensis (?) (native bluejoint) is the normal competition
for baby trees. It doesn't take long for the trees to outgrow the grass, if
the trees are in a spot they like.

If your forester is selling trees as well as providing consulting
services you may get a cost advantage if you bargain. I'm sure shipping
seedlings in is expensive. Good luck!

They've grown these trees locally. We're paying 69 cents/tree for
2100 trees. Sounds high to me, but what do I know?

Jan

They've grown these trees locally. We're paying 69 cents/tree for
2100 trees. Sounds high to me, but what do I know?

DAMN! Are they containerized? They may be a number of years old to be
hardy enough to survive in those extreme conditions. How big are the
seedlings. Down here in southern Louisiana we pay 52/1000 for bareroot
2cd gen improved loblollies and 170/K for containerized Long Leaf
seedlings. Just comenting as I am totaly ignorant of anything in that
area


Jan

"Jan Flora" wrote in message
...
In article , mike hagen
wrote:

They've grown these trees locally. We're paying 69 cents/tree for
2100 trees. Sounds high to me, but what do I know?

Are they containerized seedlings? May be about right if they are.

The plant slash pine in fla. 8ft. apart.10ft between rows.

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