Bonkei is an old Japanese word, which is actually older than the word
bonsai.

Bonkei exist in two forms, artificial and living.

One "school" of bonkei was established by Toshio Kawamoto in the early
1060's. He named his school saikei. If you CAREFULLY look through his
original book he has many, many photos and superb drawings. Now, on at
least two photos is classifies the planting as a "bonsai" on one page
and the same, identical planting as a "saikei" later on in the book....
quite confusing.

Iris, I have a handout on bonkei which I presented at the National
Arboretum's Scholarly Symposium on the history of bonkei. If I get a
chance I'll bring it tonight at the Upstate New York Auction.

Hope this helps....

Bill

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Iris wrote:


According to the school of Rabbi Yuji Yoshimura, what we call
in English a tray
landscape is a bonkei. According to the school of Rabbi Toshio
Kawamoto, a
more-or-less permanent arrangement of trees, rocks, and
accessory plants is a
saikei (the word was coined about 30 years ago). We usually
call these in
English a tray landscape.

A Chinese penjing is something else. We usually give that name
to a
land-and-water arrangement in the style of Quing Quang Zao.

_We_ may, but Zao, in a presentation at BCI this year, and Hu
Yunha, in "Penjing: The Chinese Art of Minature Gardens" both use
the term penjing to include what we and the Japanese call
"bonsai" as well as tray landscapes with stones and -- many
times, but not in every case -- various plants as well as
figurines.

But, you can get totally lost, and thoroughly mixed up with
terminology. And don't forget the similar Vietnamese construct,
Hon Non Bo.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is
frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry
David Thoreau - Walden

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Iris Cohen wrote:

According to the school of Rabbi Yuji Yoshimura, what we call in English a tray
landscape is a bonkei. According to the school of Rabbi Toshio Kawamoto, a
more-or-less permanent arrangement of trees, rocks, and accessory plants is a
saikei (the word was coined about 30 years ago). We usually call these in
English a tray landscape.
A Chinese penjing is something else. We usually give that name to a
land-and-water arrangement in the style of Quing Quang Zao.
My understanding is that a bonkei is a temporary landscape made up of twigs,
unrooted cuttings, and herbaceous plants. Does anybody have any further
information or opinion on this? What do you call these in other European
languages?

Bonkei seems to mean a lot of things. When some of my club members
visited Japan and a japanese family, the father and son made a bonkei
(their words). This was almost like a painting, where different types of
sand was used to create a landscape on a tray.

I use the term saikei for a landscape with different types of trees,
plants and stones. According to Deborah Koreshoffs book, saikei was
invented by Toshio Kawamoto in way to use young plants while they
develope into bonsai. This was after WW II when lot of bonsai had been
destroyed. This was also a way to get the general public interested in
bonsai without having to invest in expensive mature specimens.

Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden

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Bonkei, while obviously an overlapping term, usually has man-made objects
included in the design.... houses, boats, pagodas, etc. Saikei (as Bill
points out, is a derivitive of bonkei) may also include these objects, but
not as dominent elements of the subject matter. If you re-examine
Kawamoto's book, you will find some designs with dominent rocks and others
with dominent trees, but few, if any, with man-made objects.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Iris Cohen"
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 11:06 AM
Subject: [IBC] A Talmudic Disagreement


According to the school of Rabbi Yuji Yoshimura, what we call in English a
tray
landscape is a bonkei. According to the school of Rabbi Toshio Kawamoto, a
more-or-less permanent arrangement of trees, rocks, and accessory plants
is a
saikei (the word was coined about 30 years ago). We usually call these in
English a tray landscape.
A Chinese penjing is something else. We usually give that name to a
land-and-water arrangement in the style of Quing Quang Zao.
My understanding is that a bonkei is a temporary landscape made up of
twigs,
unrooted cuttings, and herbaceous plants. Does anybody have any further
information or opinion on this? What do you call these in other European
languages?
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)


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In a message dated 5/17/2003 12:23:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

One "school" of bonkei was established by Toshio Kawamoto in the early
1060's. He named his school saikei. If you CAREFULLY look through his
original book he has many, many photos and superb drawings. Now, on at
least two photos is classifies the planting as a "bonsai" on one page
and the same, identical planting as a "saikei" later on in the book....
quite confusing.


I hope Bill means 1960's. I don't think they had photography in 1060.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast

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Maybe the info I have isn't right, but I understand under "bonkei" a
landscape on a flat pot, mostly made only with conifer. Under "saikei"
a landscape made with combination of MANY DIFFERENT species.

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I don't think the multiple species element enters into the terminolgy,
Claudio. BTW
I've seen several attempts at multiple species forests, but very few which I
would consider great specimens. I will try to keep an open mind, however.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudio Fierro"
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 8:47 AM
Subject: [IBC] A Talmudic Disagreement


Maybe the info I have isn't right, but I understand under "bonkei" a
landscape on a flat pot, mostly made only with conifer. Under "saikei"
a landscape made with combination of MANY DIFFERENT species.


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Maybe the info I have isn't right, but I understand under
"bonkei" a
landscape on a flat pot, mostly made only with conifer. Under
"saikei"
a landscape made with combination of MANY DIFFERENT species.




I don't think the multiple species element enters into the
terminology,
Claudio. BTW
I've seen several attempts at multiple species forests, but
very few which I
would consider great specimens. I will try to keep an open
mind, however.
Marty

I think "MANY" may be overstating a bit. Landscape penjing,
however, often have a couple of species in them -- usually plants
that grow together in nature.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is
frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry
David Thoreau - Walden

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