Iris Cohen wrote:

snip
My biggest question right now is where can I find pictures of good red maple
bonsai. Do any exist? I would also like to know how successful people have been
in reducing the leaf size.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Iris:

I've got two that I collected in Maine. One is 122 years old, and I don't know yet
about the other. One is twin trunk, the other will be an informal upright with
significant taper.

If there aren't any good pics, then maybe we'll set the standard!

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5n/6a

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I have been working on my red maple bonsai. First, a few
observations.
I collected it in 1991. Up until this year it spent most of the
time in the
ground, not looking very promising. I pruned it occasionally.
This year I
suddenly discovered that i has an interesting trunk, crooked
and tapering, so I
potted it up. Although one of the articles I read, I think by
Jim Lewis,
recommends against cutting off branches, I cut off all the
branches because
they were too thick. The tree did oblige me by growing a new
set.
I notice that if you make a major pruning cut on this species,
you need to
gouge it out as deep as possible with your knob cutter. A flat
cut will produce
a big ugly bump.

I don't recall saying not to cut branches, but that article was
written some time ago and I have learned a little . . . . (?)
Anyway, you will get a scar, whatever you do. I have started to
(believe it or not ;-) use cut paste on major A. rubrum cuts and
then use it as a kind of glue to hold a piece of foil -- cut to
exactly fit the wound -- over the cut. I leave it on as long as
possible. So far, this _seems_ to reduce the swelling callous
that you usually get at the site of a cut on a swamp maple,
supposedly because it blocks light on the wound. I dunno whether
this is wishful thinking, or not, but it two occasions the
swelling seems to be less. Other folks here swear this technique
works on A. palmatum and trident maples.

I would worry that a knob cutter would kill the part of the tree
above the incision.


Some of the articles recommend against wiring. Jim Lewis says
that the species
in Florida has upright branches. However, in Central New York,
red maples tend
to grow in a more classic style, with the lower branches
horizontal & the upper
ones more upward. The lower branches have a sort of S curve.
This may be due to
snow or other climatic effects.

Probably snow weighing them down. Although, trees growing in the
wide open spaces will be more rounded and the weight of the older
branches will tend to pull them down as the tree ages. All open
speces in Florida have been bulldozed for houses, however so
there ARE no old A. rubrum grwing anywhere but in the woods and
swamps where developers can't get to -- yet.

I decided to wire it this way. I wired the
branches green, because once they lignify they are as rigid as
steel. So far it
has very few branches. It doesn't sprout exploding shoots like
a Japanese
maple.

Ramification is difficult. I think I might have suggested that,
rather than cutting branches of flush with the trunk (or incised
into the trunk) you leave a small stub. Often, A. rubrum will
sprout new branches around the stub. THEN you can cut it off --
and the dead branch stub is less likely to leave a big swelling.

Once your tree is well established in this pot, you can try to
defoliate regularly. This helps bring down leaf size, but also
promotes end buds and buds farther back on the new branches to
sprout and helps with ramification.

How large is this tree? I have a six-inch A. rubrum that I've
grown from seed and over the course of 6-7 years have developed
fair ramification. It's still in a 3-inch training pot, but
maybe I can take a picture. (It also shows a large swelling
where I topped it a few years ago. It slowly is going away as
the tree grows, but . . .

My biggest question right now is where can I find pictures of
good red maple
bonsai. Do any exist? I would also like to know how successful
people have been
in reducing the leaf size.

My little tree has 1/2 inch leaves, but it started from the
small-leafed variety that grows in N.W. Fla. and S. Ga. (2
inches). Your growing season may be too short, but I defoliate
healthy trees 2 or 3 times in a summer.

The August 1999 Florida Bonsai has some fair pics of A. rubrum
bonsai. Jerry Stowell, in his "Beginner's Guide . . ." says he
had had one for 10 years or so at that time. I dunno about now.
No pics in the book, through. He's somewhere "near" you, isn't
he? Check with Bill V.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - This economy
is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord
Nelson, 1995

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Iris Cohen wrote:

My biggest question right now is where can I find pictures of
good red maple
bonsai. Do any exist?

I don't know about 'good', but a red maple it is at

http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ag...rnetbonsaiclub


I have appended a snapshot of my definitely-in-training mame red
maple to indicate how small leaves can become. It is 7 inches
tall.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - This economy
is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord
Nelson, 1995

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Thanks to both of you for the pictures. About what I would expect. Can I
defoliate Acer rubrum the same year it was potted? I have cut off some of the
largest leaves & it didn't mind.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Thanks to both of you for the pictures. About what I would
expect. Can I
defoliate Acer rubrum the same year it was potted? I have cut
off some of the
largest leaves & it didn't mind.

If it is healthy, firm in its pot, and putting out new leaves.
ONCE!

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - This economy
is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord
Nelson, 1995

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Just fyi (since I'm on a plant pathology newslist and hear these things):

There's been an epidemic of die-off in 'October Glory' red maple on
the east coast, with nurseries losing hundreds of trees. Apparently,
this cultivar doesn't go dormant normally, and it suffered a lot of
frost damage because of the bad winter.

--
Nina Shishkoff

Frederick, MD

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In a message dated 6/12/03 8:48:45 AM, writes:
I would worry that a knob cutter would kill the part of the tree above the
incision.

No, as long as you don't girdle a tree, there is circulation sideways. You
don't cut that deep.

I wired the branches green, because once they lignify they are as rigid as
steel.
The green branches are very springy. When I took the wires off, even though
there were some marks, they sprang up again. I will have to rewire.

Ramification is difficult. * I think I might have suggested that, rather
than cutting branches off flush with the trunk (or incised into the trunk) you
leave a small stub. * Often, A. rubrum will sprout new branches around the
stub. * THEN you can cut it off -- and the dead branch stub is less likely to
leave a big swelling.

This is essentially what happened. However, I now have a tree about 18 inches
tall, with six branches. They are placed properly, but it needs more
branches. Is there any way to get it to bud back on the trunk?

Once your tree is well established in this pot, you can try to defoliate
regularly. * This helps bring down leaf size, but also promotes end buds and
buds farther back on the new branches to sprout and helps with ramification.

I did cut off the very largest leaves, because it was sprouting well. I will
have to repot it next year in the same pot, because the front isn't exactly
right & there are roots sticking up that need further trimming.
If I cut the branches shorter in the fall, will this promote new branches? I
need to keep the branches from getting too thick in proportion to the trunk.
Iris

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Ramification is difficult. I think I might have suggested that,
rather
than cutting branches off flush with the trunk (or incised into
the trunk) you
leave a small stub. Often, A. rubrum will sprout new branches
around the
stub. THEN you can cut it off -- and the dead branch stub is less
likely to
leave a big swelling.

This is essentially what happened. However, I now have a tree
about 18 inches
tall, with six branches. They are placed properly, but it needs
more
branches. Is there any way to get it to bud back on the trunk?
=========================
Very difficult. I have only managed it after a trunk chop.
You MAY get a new branch or two if you defoliate regularly, but
mostly you will get ramification on existing branches. You might
let the existing branches grow long then do several thread grafts
in places you feel the need of other branches. A. rubrum being
one of the thin-barked trees, however, it may take a year or even
two for the grafts to take.


Once your tree is well established in this pot, you can try to
defoliate
regularly. This helps bring down leaf size, but also promotes end
buds and
buds farther back on the new branches to sprout and helps with
ramification.

I did cut off the very largest leaves, because it was sprouting
well. I will
have to repot it next year in the same pot, because the front
isn't exactly
right & there are roots sticking up that need further trimming.
If I cut the branches shorter in the fall, will this promote new
branches?
=========================
Maybe. Probably not.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase
'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman

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I took my Acer rubrum to the Schenectady show last week and introduced it to
Dan Moshwa, who is an expert on collected maples. He suggested shortening the
existing branches and hoping for the best. However, there is one spot where he
said I seriously need a back branch. Like one of the other people in this
group, he suggested next year I take one of the long spring shoots and make a
thread graft.
I am no longer worried about leaf reduction. Every time I annoy this tree,
the new leaves come in tiny.
Iris

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Iris,
Glad to hear that your rubrum gets tiny leaves after annoying it. A week ago
I defoliated mine for the first time ever. In the process I figured out that
besides the large leaves my tree also has long petioles. This combination
makes for a tough road to bonsaihood.
Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/
I took my Acer rubrum to the Schenectady show last week and introduced it to
Dan Moshwa, who is an expert on collected maples. He suggested shortening the
existing branches and hoping for the best. However, there is one spot where he
said I seriously need a back branch. Like one of the other people in this
group, he suggested next year I take one of the long spring shoots and make a
thread graft.
I am no longer worried about leaf reduction. Every time I annoy this tree,
the new leaves come in tiny.
Iris

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I took my Acer rubrum to the Schenectady show last week and
introduced it to
Dan Moshwa, who is an expert on collected maples. He suggested
shortening the
existing branches and hoping for the best.

cut just BEHIND a bud. ||======\==8=====

cut he \
8=bud

However, there is one spot where he
said I seriously need a back branch. Like one of the other
people in this
group, he suggested next year I take one of the long spring
shoots and make a
thread graft.

I think I suggested that. You will need to make the join quite
tight. And, since A. rubrum is one of the thin-barked trees, the
graft may take a long time to join -- maybe even 2 years.

I am no longer worried about leaf reduction. Every time I annoy
this tree,
the new leaves come in tiny.

Good.

jim

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In a message dated 7/4/03 12:21:22 PM, writes:
I figured out that besides the large leaves my tree also has long petioles.

I suspect what you meant is that the tree has long internodes. I believe that
if you pinch it frequently, the leaf size and internode length will both
reduce.
Iris

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It has all of the above; long petioles, internodes and leaves.
Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/
In a message dated 7/4/03 12:21:22 PM, writes:
I figured out that besides the large leaves my tree also has long petioles.

I suspect what you meant is that the tree has long internodes. I believe that
if you pinch it frequently, the leaf size and internode length will both
reduce.
Iris

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I took my Acer rubrum to the Schenectady show last week and
introduced it to
Dan Moshwa, who is an expert on collected maples. He suggested
shortening the
existing branches and hoping for the best.

cut just BEHIND a bud. ||======\==8=====

cut he \
8=bud



Just curious, Jim. Why behind a bud?

Monika (Basque Country)

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