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#1
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
Is the cambium layer made up of distinct, parallel vertical lines, or is it
all one pool of fluid/nutrients, 360 degrees around the trunk? Thanks, Jim ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#2
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
Is the cambium layer made up of distinct, parallel vertical
lines, or is it all one pool of fluid/nutrients, 360 degrees around the trunk? The cambium is a thin layer of active cells that lies just under the bark and just above the "wood." The upper (outside) part of the cambium makes new bark. The lower (inner) makes new wood. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase 'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#3
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
Perhaps I asked the wrong way.
I need to bend a branch on stiff wood. So I thought of cutting a notch on the under part of the branch, and a bit further out, on the top of the branch, such that I never cut all the way (360 degrees) around the branch at any point (even though the total cut between the 2 may be close to 360 degrees). So, is that safe, or do I need to make sure there are lines complete from roots to branch? I hope that is clearer. Jim ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#5
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
In a message dated 7/16/2003 6:32:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes: I need to bend a branch on stiff wood. So I thought of cutting a notch on the under part of the branch, and a bit further out, on the top of the branch, such that I never cut all the way (360 degrees) around the branch at any point (even though the total cut between the 2 may be close to 360 degrees). So, is that safe, or do I need to make sure there are lines complete from roots to branch? I don't think this would usually cause a problem although some species of Juniper are known to twist and in that case your strategy might create a problem for the tree. Billy on the Florida Space Coast ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#6
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
Cheers
Kev Bailey Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales Another option would be to go slowly and do one cut this year and the other next year. The cambium self-repairs so there shouldn't then be a problem. I half sawed through the underside of a pine branch to lower it in spring 2002. The cut was made neatly and carved clean and then closed completed by wiring the branch down. I was quite surprised that there wasn't even a check to the tree's growth. Now it has healed completely and is almost unnoticeable. Cheers Kev Bailey Vale Of Clwyd, N Wales, UK ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#7
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
Cheers
Kev Bailey Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales Another option would be to go slowly and do one cut this year and the other next year. The cambium self-repairs so there shouldn't then be a problem. I half sawed through the underside of a pine branch to lower it in spring 2002. The cut was made neatly and carved clean and then closed completed by wiring the branch down. I was quite surprised that there wasn't even a check to the tree's growth. Now it has healed completely and is almost unnoticeable. Cheers Kev Bailey Vale Of Clwyd, N Wales, UK ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#8
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
Now you're getting the idea. Yes, there must be continuity from roots to the
branch you're working on. If you cut two notches on the same branch, the same rule applies. Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim S" To: ; "Martin Haber" Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:31 PM Subject: Dumb Cambium Layer Question Perhaps I asked the wrong way. I need to bend a branch on stiff wood. So I thought of cutting a notch on the under part of the branch, and a bit further out, on the top of the branch, such that I never cut all the way (360 degrees) around the branch at any point (even though the total cut between the 2 may be close to 360 degrees). So, is that safe, or do I need to make sure there are lines complete from roots to branch? I hope that is clearer. Jim ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#9
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
Now you're getting the idea. Yes, there must be continuity from roots to the
branch you're working on. If you cut two notches on the same branch, the same rule applies. Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim S" To: ; "Martin Haber" Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:31 PM Subject: Dumb Cambium Layer Question Perhaps I asked the wrong way. I need to bend a branch on stiff wood. So I thought of cutting a notch on the under part of the branch, and a bit further out, on the top of the branch, such that I never cut all the way (360 degrees) around the branch at any point (even though the total cut between the 2 may be close to 360 degrees). So, is that safe, or do I need to make sure there are lines complete from roots to branch? I hope that is clearer. Jim ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#10
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
Now you're getting the idea. Yes, there must be continuity from roots to the
branch you're working on. If you cut two notches on the same branch, the same rule applies. Marty Trees will compensate for things like that, given time. Both xylem (water carrying elements) and phloem (nutrient-carrying elements) are linked end-to-end with many seive-like pores. However, there are lateral pores, too, and this allows lateral spread. The new growth from the cambium the year after the cut will differentiate to compensate as well. So you can make the two notches, but if the tree experiences water stress, water will travel to other branches faster than to that branch, weakening it. So make sure the tree is well-watered until healing occurs. The cambium is an awesome thing. We're used to thinking of organisms with support on the outside (insects and crustaceans) or on the inside (coral), but trees have both. -- Nina Shishkoff Frederick, MD ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#11
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
Thanks for this useful info Nina.
I always wondered how the cambium layer worked. For example, If I only water a tree on one side, why don't the branches on the opposite side of the tree die ? I have trees in my garden that I know only receive water on one side, yet the branches/leaves continue to grow all around the tree. The cambium layer must be able to move water laterally as well as vertically. Interesting topic !! Regards Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA - Zone 6 -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Nina Shishkoff Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:53 AM To: Subject: [IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question Now you're getting the idea. Yes, there must be continuity from roots to the branch you're working on. If you cut two notches on the same branch, the same rule applies. Marty Trees will compensate for things like that, given time. Both xylem (water carrying elements) and phloem (nutrient-carrying elements) are linked end-to-end with many seive-like pores. However, there are lateral pores, too, and this allows lateral spread. The new growth from the cambium the year after the cut will differentiate to compensate as well. So you can make the two notches, but if the tree experiences water stress, water will travel to other branches faster than to that branch, weakening it. So make sure the tree is well-watered until healing occurs. The cambium is an awesome thing. We're used to thinking of organisms with support on the outside (insects and crustaceans) or on the inside (coral), but trees have both. -- Nina Shishkoff Frederick, MD ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#12
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
The cambium layer must be able to move water laterally as well as vertically. The cambium itself does nothing but divide; it gives rise to phloem on one side, and xylem on the other. But yeah, city trees have it tough, with pavement typically covering up half of their root systems. The roots that can get water supply the whole tree, but since lateral flow is much slower, the dry side gets stressed. Sometimes you can drive down a city street in september and see trees that are half-red (on the street side) and half-green (on the sidewalk side). ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#13
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
I don't mean to stick my nose in where PhD's are contributing, but my
gardener's knowledge of botany leads me to note that if I recall correctly the cambium layer is not engaged at all in the active transport of water or nutrients. Water is transported from the root system (via root pressure, changes in gradients, and transpirational pull) along the primary xylem. In the root system, the cambium (or more properly, the vascular cambium) is indeed a single cell-thick layer of cells from which arise the production of primary xylem and primary phloem cells-- how a root gains girth. In the stem tissue above the roots, there is vascular cambium and cork cambium (I have heard vascular cambium referred to as intrafasicular cambium). These two cambium layers work in synchrony to add girth to a trunk and lateral branching. Vascular cambium lays down wood and inner bark, cork cambium produces cork (bark). David J. Bockman, Fairfax, VA (USDA Hardiness Zone 7) Bunabayashi Bonsai On The World Wide Web: http://www.bunabayashi.com email: -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ]On Behalf Of Mark Hill Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:32 PM To: Subject: [IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question Thanks for this useful info Nina. I always wondered how the cambium layer worked. For example, If I only water a tree on one side, why don't the branches on the opposite side of the tree die ? I have trees in my garden that I know only receive water on one side, yet the branches/leaves continue to grow all around the tree. The cambium layer must be able to move water laterally as well as vertically. Interesting topic !! Regards Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA - Zone 6 -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Nina Shishkoff Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:53 AM To: Subject: [IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question Now you're getting the idea. Yes, there must be continuity from roots to the branch you're working on. If you cut two notches on the same branch, the same rule applies. Marty Trees will compensate for things like that, given time. Both xylem (water carrying elements) and phloem (nutrient-carrying elements) are linked end-to-end with many seive-like pores. However, there are lateral pores, too, and this allows lateral spread. The new growth from the cambium the year after the cut will differentiate to compensate as well. So you can make the two notches, but if the tree experiences water stress, water will travel to other branches faster than to that branch, weakening it. So make sure the tree is well-watered until healing occurs. The cambium is an awesome thing. We're used to thinking of organisms with support on the outside (insects and crustaceans) or on the inside (coral), but trees have both. -- Nina Shishkoff Frederick, MD ************************************************** **************** ********** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** **************** ********** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** **************** ************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** **************** ************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#14
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
John Naka used to talk to himself while demonstrating: "I don't have
branches on this side, so I don't need roots on this side." What he was saying was that water and nutrients DO move vertically in the tree. They do NOT move horizontally. It is, of course, possible for a tree to keep its leaves on a non-watered side because the neglected side may survive on rain water or run-off water; but that side will never do as well as the regularly watered side. Sorry, Mark, but that's the way it is. Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Hill" To: Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:31 PM Subject: [IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question Thanks for this useful info Nina. I always wondered how the cambium layer worked. For example, If I only water a tree on one side, why don't the branches on the opposite side of the tree die ? I have trees in my garden that I know only receive water on one side, yet the branches/leaves continue to grow all around the tree. The cambium layer must be able to move water laterally as well as vertically. Interesting topic !! Regards Mark Hill - Harrisburg PA - Zone 6 -----Original Message----- From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of Nina Shishkoff Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:53 AM To: Subject: [IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question Now you're getting the idea. Yes, there must be continuity from roots to the branch you're working on. If you cut two notches on the same branch, the same rule applies. Marty Trees will compensate for things like that, given time. Both xylem (water carrying elements) and phloem (nutrient-carrying elements) are linked end-to-end with many seive-like pores. However, there are lateral pores, too, and this allows lateral spread. The new growth from the cambium the year after the cut will differentiate to compensate as well. So you can make the two notches, but if the tree experiences water stress, water will travel to other branches faster than to that branch, weakening it. So make sure the tree is well-watered until healing occurs. The cambium is an awesome thing. We're used to thinking of organisms with support on the outside (insects and crustaceans) or on the inside (coral), but trees have both. -- Nina Shishkoff Frederick, MD ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#15
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[IBC] Dumb Cambium Layer Question
Marty:
I respectfully disagree with what you said and also what Naka said. Several decades ago when I was teaching bonsai at Cornell my plant physiology professor took my Introductory Bonsai course. He corrected all my mistakes after class, including this myth. Once when talking about forests I mentioned what John said about removing branches and roots on the same side of the tree. He said there IS cross movement within a tree, and a root on the right side of the tree may help to feed branches on the left side. I tend to believe my professor, rather than bonsai myths which have been going around for ages. By the way, I passed my plant physiology class and my professor passed my bonsai course.... Bill ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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