Dave - I decided to respond to both of your questions at once.

The new trident should probably be kept under a combination of artificial
light and warm days outside. It sounds like a tree that has been in a
greenhouse so putting it outside now is apt to be quite a shock even though
you do not expect a freeze. I wouldn't leave it outside full time until the
overnight lows are above 5 - 7C (41 - 45F). You are correct that trident
maple (Acer buergerianum) requires a dormant period for continued health,
but I would wait until next fall/winter to let it go dormant. I have taken
late season cuttings and rooted them inside and had them grow well the
following year so missing one year of dormancy is not too bad.

Trunks thicken based upon how much foliage they are supporting. They can
support more foliage when they have lots of room for roots. In a bonsai or
prebonsai pot they do not have lots of room for roots so they don't have as
much foliage and don't thicken too much (this is good when trying to refine
the tree). Therefore, the trunk does not thicken very fast in a pot.
However, if it is potted in a large pot and has had a chance for the roots
to colonize the pot then the trunk will thicken a fair bit. Generally, very
wide shallow pots (boxes) with very good drainage are used for this purpose
because the growth of the lateral roots tends to make the lower trunk gorw
larger than the upper trunk. You can fatten up a trunk very quickly in the
ground (commonly done), but you then have to spend time developing taper
which often requires making some trunk chops. Or you can grow the tree in
an oversized box and better control the branches and taper development which
is good for trees that do not heal large wounds easily.

If you have not done so I suggest checking out www.evergreengardenworks.com
for some excellent articles on growing bonsai stock and related topics. Not
sure where you are in BC, but you should check to see if there is a club in
your area - they will have more climate specific advice.

Marty - Spokane, WA

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Dave Weller
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 6:29 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] BEGINNER: Maple Trident and dormancy

I just got a maple trident bonsai for my birthday. I've read that a lot of
people end up killing their trees the first time around but I really don't
plan on it.

Anyway, its february right now and this tree has all its leaves... should it
have lost them? I'm wondering if the place it was bought at used artificial
light and it thinks it is summer right now.

In that case, should i continue using artificial light with it? What about
dormant stages? Doesn't it need to go out and sit in the cold? I live in
British Columbia, Canada, and it gets fairly cold but i doubt i'll see any
temps below 0 degrees ceclius from now on.

Is it too late to expose it to winter now? Will it die if it doesn't get
some dormant time? I've had it since yesterday, last night i kept it inside
with a compact florescent over it and it sitting on a tray of water, then in
the morning i let it sit out in the sun all day, and now i've put it back
inside with the light and tray.

I've picked up a book from the library and plan to talk to the store owners
on monday, but until then can anyone give me some tips and possibly answer
my questions about dormancy?

Thanks.

Trunk question

Quick question: I was just reading about how bonsais are trained from seeds.
Did I understand this right: once bonsais are potted the trunks do not grow
anymore?

So do I have no control over my trees trunk now? What about having roots
show thru the rocks?

Thanks for any help!

************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Thanks for the replies guys, very helpful.

Sounds like i'll be sticking to doing what i am doing now, putting him
outside in the sun during the warmer/sunnier days and then returning him
back to my room under a light for night time.

Should I keep the light on all night though? It isn't a very strong fluro,
so I figured i could make up for its lack of strength buy keeping it on
longer, but would that screw up the tree's clock?

Anyway, its in my basement which is fairly humid, I've been keeping the
window open a bit and shut off the heater vent to keep humidity even higher
and the air circulated, and I think i'll get a mister tomorrow too.

I hope thats all enough to keep it going, the leaves look pretty droopy
today...


"MartyWeiser" wrote in message
news:000001c3f836$d0990ec0$6401a8c0@Weiser1...
Dave - I decided to respond to both of your questions at once.

The new trident should probably be kept under a combination of artificial
light and warm days outside. It sounds like a tree that has been in a
greenhouse so putting it outside now is apt to be quite a shock even
though
you do not expect a freeze. I wouldn't leave it outside full time until
the
overnight lows are above 5 - 7C (41 - 45F). You are correct that trident
maple (Acer buergerianum) requires a dormant period for continued health,
but I would wait until next fall/winter to let it go dormant. I have
taken
late season cuttings and rooted them inside and had them grow well the
following year so missing one year of dormancy is not too bad.

Trunks thicken based upon how much foliage they are supporting. They can
support more foliage when they have lots of room for roots. In a bonsai
or
prebonsai pot they do not have lots of room for roots so they don't have
as
much foliage and don't thicken too much (this is good when trying to
refine
the tree). Therefore, the trunk does not thicken very fast in a pot.
However, if it is potted in a large pot and has had a chance for the roots
to colonize the pot then the trunk will thicken a fair bit. Generally,
very
wide shallow pots (boxes) with very good drainage are used for this
purpose
because the growth of the lateral roots tends to make the lower trunk gorw
larger than the upper trunk. You can fatten up a trunk very quickly in
the
ground (commonly done), but you then have to spend time developing taper
which often requires making some trunk chops. Or you can grow the tree in
an oversized box and better control the branches and taper development
which
is good for trees that do not heal large wounds easily.

If you have not done so I suggest checking out
www.evergreengardenworks.com
for some excellent articles on growing bonsai stock and related topics.
Not
sure where you are in BC, but you should check to see if there is a club
in
your area - they will have more climate specific advice.

Marty - Spokane, WA

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf
Of
Dave Weller
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 6:29 PM
To:
Subject: [IBC] BEGINNER: Maple Trident and dormancy

I just got a maple trident bonsai for my birthday. I've read that a lot of
people end up killing their trees the first time around but I really don't
plan on it.

Anyway, its february right now and this tree has all its leaves... should
it
have lost them? I'm wondering if the place it was bought at used
artificial
light and it thinks it is summer right now.

In that case, should i continue using artificial light with it? What about
dormant stages? Doesn't it need to go out and sit in the cold? I live in
British Columbia, Canada, and it gets fairly cold but i doubt i'll see any
temps below 0 degrees ceclius from now on.

Is it too late to expose it to winter now? Will it die if it doesn't get
some dormant time? I've had it since yesterday, last night i kept it
inside
with a compact florescent over it and it sitting on a tray of water, then
in
the morning i let it sit out in the sun all day, and now i've put it back
inside with the light and tray.

I've picked up a book from the library and plan to talk to the store
owners
on monday, but until then can anyone give me some tips and possibly answer
my questions about dormancy?

Thanks.

Trunk question

Quick question: I was just reading about how bonsais are trained from
seeds.
Did I understand this right: once bonsais are potted the trunks do not
grow
anymore?

So do I have no control over my trees trunk now? What about having roots
show thru the rocks?

Thanks for any help!


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Dave,
Thanks for clearing up the -rock- thing, that intrigued me as well as Kevin. Have a care also about how moist/wet you're keeping your tree. You said you were standing it on a trey of water when it's inside, and that can cause a world of problems for your
maple. I don't think you need to keep the light on all night for your tree if you are putting it outside daily. Nothing can really take the place of sunshine.

And PLEASE, PLEASE, SNIP the excess material from your posts when replying, all it does is clog up our archives.
Regards,
Shelly Hurd Central CA - Sunset Zone 8-USDA Zone 9

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Weller
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 6:30 PM
Subject: [IBC] BEGINNER: Maple Trident and dormancy & Trunk question


Thanks for the replies guys, very helpful.

SNIP

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Dave,
Thanks for clearing up the -rock- thing, that intrigued me as well as Kevin. Have a care also about how moist/wet you're keeping your tree. You said you were standing it on a trey of water when it's inside, and that can cause a world of problems for your
maple. I don't think you need to keep the light on all night for your tree if you are putting it outside daily. Nothing can really take the place of sunshine.

And PLEASE, PLEASE, SNIP the excess material from your posts when replying, all it does is clog up our archives.
Regards,
Shelly Hurd Central CA - Sunset Zone 8-USDA Zone 9

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Weller
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 6:30 PM
Subject: [IBC] BEGINNER: Maple Trident and dormancy & Trunk question


Thanks for the replies guys, very helpful.

SNIP

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Dave,
Thanks for clearing up the -rock- thing, that intrigued me as well as Kevin. Have a care also about how moist/wet you're keeping your tree. You said you were standing it on a trey of water when it's inside, and that can cause a world of problems for your
maple. I don't think you need to keep the light on all night for your tree if you are putting it outside daily. Nothing can really take the place of sunshine.

And PLEASE, PLEASE, SNIP the excess material from your posts when replying, all it does is clog up our archives.
Regards,
Shelly Hurd Central CA - Sunset Zone 8-USDA Zone 9

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Weller
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 6:30 PM
Subject: [IBC] BEGINNER: Maple Trident and dormancy & Trunk question


Thanks for the replies guys, very helpful.

SNIP

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Ken Rutledge++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++