Jim Lewis wrote:


Oh, phoo! You've heard of "safe sex?" We're practicing "Safe
Bonsai growing."

danger and to know haw to play the right rules is a part of the game
too safe .. is like eat syntehtic meat instead of a T bone steak IMHO !


When you add dirt you cannot avoid adding pathogens (unless, of
course, you sterilize the dirt, and I know you don't) and, like
casual sexual partners and STD, while chances are fairly good
that the pathogen you add will NOT hurt your tree, there is the
chance that it will.

trees always lived in nature and patogenes made them stronger ( the
one that survived at least ) and a lot survived and made a strong breed

As for compost, GOOD compost is self-sterilized. It gets HOT in
a good, well-turned compost pile. Still, compost is pretty fine-
grained soil and since it is the product of decay so by
definition if it has decay bacteria included in it, your compost
will only get finer as time goes on. That clogs up your soil.
yes but generally it takes two years to make a good compost
I use it after this time when I need repotting

It is often forgotten, but roots need more than water and
nutrients. They need air. Clogged soil interferes with the
provision of air to the roots.

yes of course
but in real nature you have grit and soil and trees live in the
one tehy are fitted to live in .. a seed in a wrong soil wither and die
some prefer in calcar some acidic some live in clay or silica
others in swamp
of course we have , due to the reduced space of a pot to create the
ideal place for roots to develope but if we only use non-soil and
fertilizers we do a sort of syntetic environment

similar to hydroculture but instead of water we use a moist solid
medium the non -soil!

it is not a normal environment , and beside that patogenes are
carried by wind insects animal dejections and whatever unless you
grow your bonsais under a glass bell cut form whatever contact with
the external world

but this is almost possible now or in labs, but not during the
centuries before ,and Bonsai art survived patogenes and all different
soils and mix

Over time, the pine bark we use decomposes bit and actually
becomes a kind of soil in our pot. About then, though, we
repot.
exactly
and air does not circulate as well as in the beginning of repotting ..

in this way we could grow bonsai in chopped glass grit
and add macro and micro elements when needed

but would it be to make Bonsai ? :-)
a doctor told me lately
we are not healty in the meaniong of viruses or desease -free
we are filled up with viruses and microbs that cannot develope and
kill us as we have immuno defenses but to have tehm we must be in
contanct with viruses or micronbs to develope them




MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

Theo

Excellent! You and I are on the same wavelength! I think SYENTHIC cultural
practices in US is the result of too much hype created for the readymade
(lazy-man's) products by the manufacturers and their agents probably with
the motive of making profits. As the mother feed is the best for a baby,
likewise mother earth (natural soil) is the best food source for a plant.
Highly infected, infested and polluted soil will not support plant life.
But where is the need to get such stuff then sterilize or autoclave it! I
take good fertilesoil, dry it in the Sun and then sift it through a sieve
that has 40 x 40 meshes per sq.inch, to remove the fine dust. Similarly we
use well rotted leaf or dung compost after sifting it through 20 x 20 mesh.
And adding coarse sharp sand or inert grit to it, the mixture becomes quite
porous and easily last one year without clogging. In the next repotting, we
recycle the old mixture by sifting it again (to remove the broken fine
particles) and mixing it with the fresh mixture in 50-50ratio, adding some
broad spectrum organic fertilizer. All plants grow very well in this
medium.

As for the micro-elements are concerned, these are sufficient in organic
fertlisers and soil.

Regards

Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh "The City Beautiful"


Jim Lewis wrote:


Oh, phoo! You've heard of "safe sex?" We're practicing "Safe
Bonsai growing."

danger and to know haw to play the right rules is a part of the game
too safe .. is like eat syntehtic meat instead of a T bone steak IMHO !


When you add dirt you cannot avoid adding pathogens (unless, of
course, you sterilize the dirt, and I know you don't) and, like
casual sexual partners and STD, while chances are fairly good
that the pathogen you add will NOT hurt your tree, there is the
chance that it will.

trees always lived in nature and patogenes made them stronger ( the
one that survived at least ) and a lot survived and made a strong breed

As for compost, GOOD compost is self-sterilized. It gets HOT in
a good, well-turned compost pile. Still, compost is pretty fine-
grained soil and since it is the product of decay so by
definition if it has decay bacteria included in it, your compost
will only get finer as time goes on. That clogs up your soil.

yes but generally it takes two years to make a good compost
I use it after this time when I need repotting

It is often forgotten, but roots need more than water and
nutrients. They need air. Clogged soil interferes with the
provision of air to the roots.

yes of course
but in real nature you have grit and soil and trees live in the
one tehy are fitted to live in .. a seed in a wrong soil wither and die
some prefer in calcar some acidic some live in clay or silica
others in swamp
of course we have , due to the reduced space of a pot to create the
ideal place for roots to develope but if we only use non-soil and
fertilizers we do a sort of syntetic environment

similar to hydroculture but instead of water we use a moist solid
medium the non -soil!

it is not a normal environment , and beside that patogenes are
carried by wind insects animal dejections and whatever unless you
grow your bonsais under a glass bell cut form whatever contact with
the external world

but this is almost possible now or in labs, but not during the
centuries before ,and Bonsai art survived patogenes and all different
soils and mix

Over time, the pine bark we use decomposes bit and actually
becomes a kind of soil in our pot. About then, though, we
repot.
exactly
and air does not circulate as well as in the beginning of repotting ..

in this way we could grow bonsai in chopped glass grit
and add macro and micro elements when needed

but would it be to make Bonsai ? :-)
a doctor told me lately
we are not healty in the meaniong of viruses or desease -free
we are filled up with viruses and microbs that cannot develope and
kill us as we have immuno defenses but to have tehm we must be in
contanct with viruses or micronbs to develope them




MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hello Anil
Anil Kaushik wrote:

Theo

Excellent! You and I are on the same wavelength!
;-)
I think SYENTHIC cultural
practices in US is the result of too much hype created for the readymade
(lazy-man's) products by the manufacturers and their agents probably with
the motive of making profits.

probably due to production and to avoid patopgenous that can destroy
young breed
I read of a Japanese master that when buys some plants in nurseries he
knows that are hevily under chemicals to keep them fine so during one
year he leaves the new bought plant grow and to get free fo chemical to
rebuilt his own defenses
I think he is right

As the mother feed is the best for a baby,
likewise mother earth (natural soil) is the best food source for a plant.
Highly infected, infested and polluted soil will not support plant life.
But where is the need to get such stuff then sterilize or autoclave it! I
take good fertilesoil, dry it in the Sun and then sift it through a sieve
that has 40 x 40 meshes per sq.inch, to remove the fine dust. Similarly we
use well rotted leaf or dung compost after sifting it through 20 x 20 mesh.
And adding coarse sharp sand or inert grit to it, the mixture becomes quite
porous and easily last one year without clogging. In the next repotting, we
recycle the old mixture by sifting it again (to remove the broken fine
particles) and mixing it with the fresh mixture in 50-50ratio, adding some
broad spectrum organic fertilizer. All plants grow very well in this
medium.
yeah
I normally steam-sterilize the lava or gravel I use as it comes from
soils and places I do not know so I wash and than put in a plastic bag
with some water in microwave
so I can recicle it over and over again and adding a little old
soil plus new home made compost it helps to colonize with *home* bacteria
Akadama is getting not only expensive but also degradates quite quickly
so I use just a third with lava and the compost
for needles I use less compost with maples 30% is ok
my coarse lava or gravel is about 4-5 mm and porous so helps in air
circulation
aftere ripotting the old soil aka + gravel or lava + old compost is
sifted the dust is thrown in nature or in my geraniums pots and the
solid gravel is washed sterilized and stored for others plants whene
needed in months to come

As for the micro-elements are concerned, these are sufficient in organic
fertlisers and soil.
guess so , and anyway there are also in biogold fish emulsion and so on
Regards


MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

Hello Anil
Anil Kaushik wrote:

Theo

Excellent! You and I are on the same wavelength!
;-)
I think SYENTHIC cultural
practices in US is the result of too much hype created for the readymade
(lazy-man's) products by the manufacturers and their agents probably with
the motive of making profits.

probably due to production and to avoid patopgenous that can destroy
young breed
I read of a Japanese master that when buys some plants in nurseries he
knows that are hevily under chemicals to keep them fine so during one
year he leaves the new bought plant grow and to get free fo chemical to
rebuilt his own defenses
I think he is right

As the mother feed is the best for a baby,
likewise mother earth (natural soil) is the best food source for a plant.
Highly infected, infested and polluted soil will not support plant life.
But where is the need to get such stuff then sterilize or autoclave it! I
take good fertilesoil, dry it in the Sun and then sift it through a sieve
that has 40 x 40 meshes per sq.inch, to remove the fine dust. Similarly we
use well rotted leaf or dung compost after sifting it through 20 x 20 mesh.
And adding coarse sharp sand or inert grit to it, the mixture becomes quite
porous and easily last one year without clogging. In the next repotting, we
recycle the old mixture by sifting it again (to remove the broken fine
particles) and mixing it with the fresh mixture in 50-50ratio, adding some
broad spectrum organic fertilizer. All plants grow very well in this
medium.
yeah
I normally steam-sterilize the lava or gravel I use as it comes from
soils and places I do not know so I wash and than put in a plastic bag
with some water in microwave
so I can recicle it over and over again and adding a little old
soil plus new home made compost it helps to colonize with *home* bacteria
Akadama is getting not only expensive but also degradates quite quickly
so I use just a third with lava and the compost
for needles I use less compost with maples 30% is ok
my coarse lava or gravel is about 4-5 mm and porous so helps in air
circulation
aftere ripotting the old soil aka + gravel or lava + old compost is
sifted the dust is thrown in nature or in my geraniums pots and the
solid gravel is washed sterilized and stored for others plants whene
needed in months to come

As for the micro-elements are concerned, these are sufficient in organic
fertlisers and soil.
guess so , and anyway there are also in biogold fish emulsion and so on
Regards


MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

Theo: A big difference is that I don't care much if a tree in the
forest dies of natural causes, but I care a whole lot if any of
my bonsai die for any reason. I want much better survival rates
than nature, so for me the nature comparison is moot. I'll
continue to practice risk management for bonsai.

Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
Jim Lewis wrote:
Oh, phoo! You've heard of "safe sex?" We're practicing "Safe
Bonsai growing."

From: Theo
danger and to know haw to play the right rules is a part of
the game
too safe .. is like eat syntehtic meat instead of a T bone steak
IMHO !

When you add dirt you cannot avoid adding pathogens (unless, of

course, you sterilize the dirt, and I know you don't) and, like

casual sexual partners and STD, while chances are fairly good
that the pathogen you add will NOT hurt your tree, there is the

chance that it will.

trees always lived in nature and patogenes made them stronger
( the
one that survived at least ) and a lot survived and made a
strong breed

As for compost, GOOD compost is self-sterilized. It gets HOT
in
a good, well-turned compost pile. Still, compost is pretty
fine-
grained soil and since it is the product of decay so by
definition if it has decay bacteria included in it, your
compost
will only get finer as time goes on. That clogs up your soil.
yes but generally it takes two years to make a good compost
I use it after this time when I need repotting

It is often forgotten, but roots need more than water and
nutrients. They need air. Clogged soil interferes with the
provision of air to the roots.

yes of course
but in real nature you have grit and soil and trees live in
the
one tehy are fitted to live in .. a seed in a wrong soil wither
and die
some prefer in calcar some acidic some live in clay or
silica
others in swamp
of course we have , due to the reduced space of a pot to
create the
ideal place for roots to develope but if we only use non-soil
and
fertilizers we do a sort of syntetic environment

similar to hydroculture but instead of water we use a moist
solid
medium the non -soil!

it is not a normal environment , and beside that patogenes
are
carried by wind insects animal dejections and whatever unless
you
grow your bonsais under a glass bell cut form whatever contact
with
the external world

but this is almost possible now or in labs, but not during
the
centuries before ,and Bonsai art survived patogenes and all
different
soils and mix

Over time, the pine bark we use decomposes bit and actually
becomes a kind of soil in our pot. About then, though, we
repot.
exactly
and air does not circulate as well as in the beginning of
repotting ..

in this way we could grow bonsai in chopped glass grit
and add macro and micro elements when needed

but would it be to make Bonsai ? :-)
a doctor told me lately
we are not healty in the meaniong of viruses or desease -free
we are filled up with viruses and microbs that cannot develope
and
kill us as we have immuno defenses but to have tehm we must be
in
contanct with viruses or micronbs to develope them
MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
Just for today... don't worry .....be happy


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++