Shelly, this issue has come up fairly recently. I do not remember how I
found the list but feel it is a valuable adjunct to my continued education
in bonsai. I don't know how important the link to RAB is, that is for
others to decide.

My reasons for sending this are twofold:

First, we as individual users of the list (either directly or through the
digest) control what is in the archives. If we ignore the spam then it
takes very little space in the archives and could be edited out if necessary
(no, I'm not volunteering). All members of the List need to be more
responsible about replying to spam through the list. If in doubt, reply
directly to the original sender so your e-mails do not contribute to the
clutter in the archive. I know that I've recently skipped over the recent
spate of off-topic postings which have been making their way through the
list. If others had done the same, I'd have fewer postings to skip and the
archives would be less filled.

Second, if the archives are of concern (and they should be) then we should
all clip our return comments, such as this, to the original e-mail.

If we all do these two simple things, then the spam/off-topic problem will
become so minor as to be ignorable. So my post here is a plea for a bit of
personal restraint and responsibility.

Jay Beckenbach - Melrose, FL - Zone 8b/9a -

-----Original Message-----
From: Shelly Hurd ]
Subject: Admin - R.A.B. - Long

In the past two weeks we have seen an increasing number of argumentative /
off topic posts / and increasing numbers of spam posts all received through
rec.arts.bonsai. These posts not only waste my time, they waste yours, and
fill our archives with what can only be politely described as garbage.

We/I have three alternatives:
.....
---------- CLIP ----------

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On 28 Feb 2005 at 10:53, Beckenbach, Jay wrote:

First, we as individual users of the list (either directly or through the
digest) control what is in the archives. If we ignore the spam then it
takes very little space in the archives and could be edited out if necessary

Well, it is possible to edit out individual messages, but it is
a tedious and VERY complicated process, and one that the
slightest error can (and will) mess up the entire archive
indexing scheme.

As former list manager, I would not recommend it to Shelly.

snip

Second, if the archives are of concern (and they should be)
then we should
all clip our return comments, such as this, to the original e-mail.

If we all do these two simple things, then the spam/off-topic problem will
become so minor as to be ignorable. So my post here is a plea for a bit of
personal restraint and responsibility.

Well, over I dunno how many years, I tried to educate members --
and probably got many of them mad at me -- during my tenure as
list manager. There are a number of IBCers who appear to be
uneducable, many of them, it seems, on RAB where we can do
little about it, and virtually ALL the offenders are non-dues-
paying users of the list and website. You all know who you are;
you've received everything from pleas to threats to get you to
snip messages and ignore junk, but you don't do it.

Education is LSoft's recommended approach, but it doesn't seem
to work very well on the IBC.

One of the problems, of course, is that we are continuously
getting new members.

Another is that "netiquette" (like etiquette in the real world)
seems to be one of the more UNimportant things in people's lives
these days. Too many folks just don't care how (or if) they
offend someone else -- on the internet or on Main Street.

For those who have never heard the tern "netiquette," go here --
and OBEY:

http://www.albion.com/netiquette/corerules.html

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Ex
everything.

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In article 422310E3.15508.2711EC@localhost,
(Jim Lewis) wrote:

On 28 Feb 2005 at 10:53, Beckenbach, Jay wrote:

First, we as individual users of the list (either directly or through
the digest) control what is in the archives. If we ignore the spam
then it takes very little space in the archives and could be edited
out if necessary

Well, it is possible to edit out individual messages, but it is a
tedious and VERY complicated process, and one that the slightest error
can (and will) mess up the entire archive indexing scheme.

As former list manager, I would not recommend it to Shelly.
[snip]

Do you mean "edit out" as in changing the contents of a message in the
mailing list archives, or removing the message from the archives entirely?
I've seen a few web forums that do the former because it's a lot easier;
they just change it to something like "[obvious trolling removed by admin]".

On 1 Mar 2005 at 18:24, Wayne C. Morris wrote:

In article 422310E3.15508.2711EC@localhost,
(Jim Lewis) wrote:

On 28 Feb 2005 at 10:53, Beckenbach, Jay wrote:

First, we as individual users of the list (either directly or through
the digest) control what is in the archives. If we ignore the spam
then it takes very little space in the archives and could be edited
out if necessary

Well, it is possible to edit out individual messages, but it is a
tedious and VERY complicated process, and one that the slightest error
can (and will) mess up the entire archive indexing scheme.

As former list manager, I would not recommend it to Shelly.
[snip]

Do you mean "edit out" as in changing the contents of a message in the
mailing list archives, or removing the message from the archives entirely?
I've seen a few web forums that do the former because it's a lot easier;
they just change it to something like "[obvious trolling removed by admin]".


Archives in web forums (fora?) must be easy to edit. Archives
in our text-based e-mail list, kept as part of an detailed
indexed database are NOT.

And by "edit out" I think we meant simply eliminate the
offensive message.

Jim Lewis - - Hit THINK before you hit SEND

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++