On Feb 15, 8:08 pm, "James" wrote:
Produce is high these days. Cheapest for me for 5 daily store bought
fruit & vege servings a banana, cabbage, dry beans, carrot, squash.

Home grown is even more expensive because animals and birds eat my
fruits before they ripe. I do however get a few odd veges and a good
crop of tomatoes and garlic each year.

Learn to use your farmer market. This is frozen Michigan, my winter
greens (I still have about 100 carrots, 50 radicchio heads, some 50
beets, 5 or 6 bokchoi and 5 or 6 collards in the ground) are frozen in
the hoophouses and I have been unable to pick anything since Jan. 27.
I have been eating some of the fresh-frozen beans and tomatoes from
last summer, and of course I have onions, garlic and various herbal
teas prepared in July. From the market:

- pillow-size bag of fresh arugula (was really very fresh): $2
- bushel of 2nd choice Northern Spy (better than first choice of other
apples): $12
- 25 lb of carrots (and Michigan has the best carrots); $8.

Plus of course grass-fed cow, $3/lb.
Not much variety in the winter, but that has always been the case. The
quality is still pretty good.

In article ,
says...
Sheldon wrote:
(Dick Adams) wrote:
James wrote:

Produce is high these days. Cheapest for me for 5 daily store bought
fruit & vege servings a banana, cabbage, dry beans, carrot, squash.

Home grown is even more expensive because animals and birds eat my
fruits before they ripe. I do however get a few odd veges and a good
crop of tomatoes and garlic each year.

The best bang for your buck is a small hydroponics system. See the 11
plant system athttp://hydroponicsonline.com. There is a learning curve
and a high startup cost, but it has been worth it to me. Just be
prepared for more food than you expected!

Read a basic book first. I suggest "Hydroponics for the Home Gardener:
An easy-to-follow, step-by-step guide for growing healthy vegetables,
herbs and house plants without soil" by Kenyon & Resh

A search at Amazon.com on "Howard M. Resh" will prvide you with several
titles worth reading,

Read about companion planting at http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/complant.html

For the average home gardener an inexpensive fence and some netting
works just fine... I don't think very many families will be interested
in investing in like $40,000 worth of arbortorium to grow a dozen
heads of lettuce and a few pounds of green beans.

The 11 plant system mmentioned above is a less than $150 DIY project
including 20 gal resevoir, water pump, air stone, and timer. The major
upfront cost in hydroponics is lighting and I spent around $400 for that.
Big advantages are no weed, no birds, rabbits, deer, or groundhogs having
their meals at your expense. Plus you get year-round planting as in fresh
tomatoes, lettuce, spinach, eggplant, bell peppers, etc. 12 months a year.

True you don't need it if you're living alone, but a family of four or
more can save beaucoup dollars - without $40,000 worth of arbortorium.


It depends on where you live. I just have a standard one yearly
crop of tomatoes, capsicums, and beans. But my local climate
lets me do lettuce, spinach, and onions year-round.

Also, I don't have any big problems with animals. And I could
just do cheap fencing anyway.

On the other hand, I would probably try hydroponics if I had the
indoor space. Just for the experience.


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On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 07:06:53 -0000, (Dick Adams) wrote:

The best bang for your buck is a small hydroponics system. See the 11
plant system athttp://hydroponicsonline.com. There is a learning curve
and a high startup cost, but it has been worth it to me. Just be
prepared for more food than you expected!

I have some problems with the whole concept of hydroponics. I hold a degree in
agriculture from a major school, so I do have some basis for my disagreement
with hydroponic gardening. I argued this with professors also.

1. I believe hydroponic gardens can too easily be infested with disease.

2. I fear that growing in water rather than soil may cause the resulting food
to be of less vitamin/ mineral value. Science has yet to identify all the
benefits or disadvantages of the many compounds in soil. Still, there is
evidence that iron poor soil produces iron poor vegetables. Where are the
minerals in hydroponics.

3. Hydroponics must be one of the highest maintenance ways to grow vegetables.

Vandy Terre wrote:
....author lost in the sea of quotes...
The best bang for your buck is a small hydroponics system.

I have some problems with the whole concept of hydroponics. I hold a degree in
agriculture from a major school, so I do have some basis for my disagreement
with hydroponic gardening. I argued this with professors also.

The world is enriched by having diverse viewpoints.

1. I believe hydroponic gardens can too easily be infested with disease.

Hydroponic gardens can be easily sterilized. This is, in fact, one of
their greatest selling points. Soil isn't as easy to completely clean.

2. I fear that growing in water rather than soil may cause the resulting food
to be of less vitamin/ mineral value.

I believe a great deal of research has gone into this issue and, for
the most part, it was found that it's not a problem as long as the
plant is supplied the right materials. One method that I've heard of
uses worm castings to a large extent. This means they have to grow
worms as well but it doesn't seem to be too difficult.

3. Hydroponics must be one of the highest maintenance ways to grow vegetables.

Hydroponics can be largely automated. It's still a bit of work but the
advantage is that it produces many times over soil farming. On the basis
of the amount of harvested crop, the hydroponics may be much less work.

Anthony

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:56:52 -0800, Anthony Matonak
wrote:

Vandy Terre wrote:
...author lost in the sea of quotes...
The best bang for your buck is a small hydroponics system.

I have some problems with the whole concept of hydroponics. I hold a degree in
agriculture from a major school, so I do have some basis for my disagreement
with hydroponic gardening. I argued this with professors also.

The world is enriched by having diverse viewpoints.

1. I believe hydroponic gardens can too easily be infested with disease.

Hydroponic gardens can be easily sterilized. This is, in fact, one of
their greatest selling points. Soil isn't as easy to completely clean.

Soil can be heated, baked at 350f, which removes most problems with disease. It
is easier to contaminate water than soil once a sterile environment is obtained.
Open air gardens do quite well. If there is a problem with animals and insects
eating part of the crop. Plant more, install fences to keep large animals out,
a tiki torch burned for an hour or so at sundown will kill a large quantity of
pest insects, moth balls or garlic plants are ways to control small animal
pests.

2. I fear that growing in water rather than soil may cause the resulting food
to be of less vitamin/ mineral value.

I believe a great deal of research has gone into this issue and, for
the most part, it was found that it's not a problem as long as the
plant is supplied the right materials. One method that I've heard of
uses worm castings to a large extent. This means they have to grow
worms as well but it doesn't seem to be too difficult.

If growing the worms they also must be in a sterile environment. What is fed to
the worms must be sterile and it must contain the needed minerals. Minerals do
not magically appear.

3. Hydroponics must be one of the highest maintenance ways to grow vegetables.

Hydroponics can be largely automated. It's still a bit of work but the
advantage is that it produces many times over soil farming. On the basis
of the amount of harvested crop, the hydroponics may be much less work.

Maybe, but at what expense? Is the crop worth the money spent to obtain it.