In article ,
Ann wrote:

Charlie expounded:

Full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Battle for Biofuels Drives World Food Prices Higher

America’s thirst for environmentally friendly biofuels
is driving up food prices around the world as farmers
scramble to devote more land to corn.


Is the US government still paying farmers to *not* grow crops?

Charlie,
It appears that the "New Deal" for farmers was laid to rest in the 70s
after it had been whittled at for a generation. The original deal was
where the government would loan the farmer money to hold the crop off
the market until prices went higher. If they didn't go higher, the
government kept the crop and they called it even. The reasoning being
that it was in the nations interest to lay away food for bad time and to
support the farmers who grew it. In the 1970s the above got changed to
price supports. The government decided what a fair price was and paid
the farmer the difference. Thing is as the government determined price
has dropped, farmers raise more to cover expenses, causing in turn a
lowering if price supports. By now the farmer gets about 4 cents to the
dollar for their crop, uh, commodity.

The main benefactors of the commodity price collapse for corn is Archer
Daniel Midlands and, Cargill.

The price collapse realy started in the 50s with the introduction of
chemical fertilizers. Previously, farmers had used crop rotation and
manure to invigorate their land. Now there is no need for crop rotation,
meaning more corn and lower prices.

According to Michael Pollard's book,"Omnivore's Delimma"
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/r...1_pollan.shtml
it takes a little over 1 petroleum calorie to produce 1 calorie of
edible corn (pg. 46, 1st paragraph). There is the possibility of using
the entire plant by converting the cellulose back to sugar but I don't
know what energy investment that would entail.

Funny thing though, before using crop rotation and farm manure, you got
2 food calories out for everyone put in and the environment was a hell
of a lot healthier.

How you making out with your clay?

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

P.S. Jan I wish I had known that this book was continuation from
Pollard's previous book, "The Botany of Desire". Damn, this is turning
into a serious amount of summer reading.

On Wed, 30 May 2007 09:52:11 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:


Charlie,
It appears that the "New Deal" for farmers was laid to rest in the 70s
after it had been whittled at for a generation. The original deal was
where the government would loan the farmer money to hold the crop off
the market until prices went higher. If they didn't go higher, the
government kept the crop and they called it even. The reasoning being
that it was in the nations interest to lay away food for bad time and to
support the farmers who grew it. In the 1970s the above got changed to
price supports. The government decided what a fair price was and paid
the farmer the difference. Thing is as the government determined price
has dropped, farmers raise more to cover expenses, causing in turn a
lowering if price supports. By now the farmer gets about 4 cents to the
dollar for their crop, uh, commodity.

The main benefactors of the commodity price collapse for corn is Archer
Daniel Midlands and, Cargill.

The price collapse realy started in the 50s with the introduction of
chemical fertilizers. Previously, farmers had used crop rotation and
manure to invigorate their land. Now there is no need for crop rotation,
meaning more corn and lower prices.

And until this point, much af what was produced on the farm remained on
the farm. I can't recall the percentage of produce that left the farm,
but it was fairly low.

Nearly every forty or eighty had a farm and family. Most, if not all
of the family food was produced and processed on the farm.

Stock was taken to a local or regional processing plant and was
processed and distributed to local stores. Stores sold local eggs and
produce, in season. You see what we have now. People were trying to
make a living and life for their families and communities, not trying
to become quadrazillionaires.

I well remember the taste of real pork and beef, real eggs and real
milk. Ever notice how pork and chicken kinda taste the same nowadays?

Back in the fifties and sixties, the local farmers also provided good
summer jobs for us kids. Before Monsanto, we walked bean fields,
cutting out the weeds. We made hay all summer.

Now there is little work for our young, even less meaningful work.
Gardening can be return to this, a reconnection with the natural world
and the natural rhythms of life. To the quietness of nature and mind
the working the dirt can bring.

According to Michael Pollard's book,"Omnivore's Delimma"
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/r...1_pollan.shtml
it takes a little over 1 petroleum calorie to produce 1 calorie of
edible corn (pg. 46, 1st paragraph). There is the possibility of using
the entire plant by converting the cellulose back to sugar but I don't
know what energy investment that would entail.

Funny thing though, before using crop rotation and farm manure, you got
2 food calories out for everyone put in and the environment was a hell
of a lot healthier.

How you making out with your clay?

Ha! Always one to make me think, aincha? I am holding off to see some
results on my friends pastures and research a bit more.


- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

Care Brudda
Charlie

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2007 09:52:11 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:


[...]

Stock was taken to a local or regional processing plant and was
processed and distributed to local stores. Stores sold local eggs and
produce, in season. You see what we have now. People were trying to
make a living and life for their families and communities, not trying
to become quadrazillionaires.

Some of us are still doing that. There are three gals right here in
my little neighborhood who sell our eggs. About 50 dozen eggs a
week, between the three of us, and we can't meet our market demand.

A couple of gals sell raw milk, but do it very quietly, because
it's not legal in this state to sell it.

Another neighbor is a truck farmer and a founding mother of our
local Farmers Market, which has grown exponentially in 5 years.

And all of my Old Believer Russian neighbors grow a huge amount
of the food they need for the year. Literally tons of spuds; cabbage;
carrots; broccoli; lots of beets (for borscht), etc. (Lots of food
crops thrive in our cool Alaskan summers.) They all have greenhouses --
typical size is ~20'x30', although one neighbor just built a new one
that's at least 40' long. (I'm very jealous...)

Those families average 12 children each. The kids help with the
garden, the milk cows, the chickens (meat & egg), the horses,
goats and other assorted & sundry animals. The kids also go out
commercial fishing with their dads & uncles, and they go hunting
in the fall for moose & caribou. The kids grow up with a real
understanding of where their food comes from and how to make it
all happen.


Back in the fifties and sixties, the local farmers also provided good
summer jobs for us kids. Before Monsanto, we walked bean fields,
cutting out the weeds. We made hay all summer.

We can't get "American" kids to work on the ranch, doing haying.
The Russian kids are happy for the work. I've never heard a single
whimper or whine, bucking square bales.


Funny thing though, before using crop rotation and farm manure, you got
2 food calories out for everyone put in and the environment was a hell
of a lot healthier.


We sell our composted cow manure like crazy this time of year.
The organic truck farmers and my Russian neighbors buy it.

We started selling the cow poop simply because we're always broke
in May. I needed money to pay the light bill & the phone bill.
Now we sell I don't know how many tons of it every spring : )

Jan in Alaska
Zone 3 and time to plant-out, right after this full moon
(we have snow in the forecast for tomorrow night)

--
Bedouin proverb: If you have no troubles, buy a goat.

On Wed, 30 May 2007 15:34:28 -0900, Jan Flora wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2007 09:52:11 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:


[...]

Stock was taken to a local or regional processing plant and was
processed and distributed to local stores. Stores sold local eggs and
produce, in season. You see what we have now. People were trying to
make a living and life for their families and communities, not trying
to become quadrazillionaires.

Some of us are still doing that. There are three gals right here in
my little neighborhood who sell our eggs. About 50 dozen eggs a
week, between the three of us, and we can't meet our market demand.

A couple of gals sell raw milk, but do it very quietly, because
it's not legal in this state to sell it.

Another neighbor is a truck farmer and a founding mother of our
local Farmers Market, which has grown exponentially in 5 years.

And all of my Old Believer Russian neighbors grow a huge amount
of the food they need for the year. Literally tons of spuds; cabbage;
carrots; broccoli; lots of beets (for borscht), etc. (Lots of food
crops thrive in our cool Alaskan summers.) They all have greenhouses --
typical size is ~20'x30', although one neighbor just built a new one
that's at least 40' long. (I'm very jealous...)

Those families average 12 children each. The kids help with the
garden, the milk cows, the chickens (meat & egg), the horses,
goats and other assorted & sundry animals. The kids also go out
commercial fishing with their dads & uncles, and they go hunting
in the fall for moose & caribou. The kids grow up with a real
understanding of where their food comes from and how to make it
all happen.


Back in the fifties and sixties, the local farmers also provided good
summer jobs for us kids. Before Monsanto, we walked bean fields,
cutting out the weeds. We made hay all summer.

We can't get "American" kids to work on the ranch, doing haying.
The Russian kids are happy for the work. I've never heard a single
whimper or whine, bucking square bales.


Funny thing though, before using crop rotation and farm manure, you got
2 food calories out for everyone put in and the environment was a hell
of a lot healthier.


We sell our composted cow manure like crazy this time of year.
The organic truck farmers and my Russian neighbors buy it.

We started selling the cow poop simply because we're always broke
in May. I needed money to pay the light bill & the phone bill.
Now we sell I don't know how many tons of it every spring : )

Jan in Alaska
Zone 3 and time to plant-out, right after this full moon
(we have snow in the forecast for tomorrow night)

Whoa.....are you alive? Is this post originating from heaven?

Hello, is this god speaking? Is this a vision of the afterlife?

Seriously now.....

Charlie, to whom the angel spoke

In article
,
Bill Rose wrote:

In article ,
Ann wrote:

Charlie expounded:

[...]

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

P.S. Jan I wish I had known that this book was continuation from
Pollard's previous book, "The Botany of Desire". Damn, this is turning
into a serious amount of summer reading.

Bill:

I haven't read the second book yet. The first one is a pretty
fast read, but I read fast...

The chapter about tulips is fascinating, as well as the reason
why Johnny Appleseed planted apples all over the place. To
folks who haven't read the book, he was planting apple trees
to produce apples to make hard cider. A man after my own heart.

Jan

--
Bedouin proverb: If you have no troubles, buy a goat.

Bill Rose expounded:

In article ,
Ann wrote:

Charlie expounded:

Full article at:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/27/1485/

Battle for Biofuels Drives World Food Prices Higher

America’s thirst for environmentally friendly biofuels
is driving up food prices around the world as farmers
scramble to devote more land to corn.


Is the US government still paying farmers to *not* grow crops?

Charlie,

Thank you, Bill, but....I am not Charlie )

(I asked the question, not Charlie)
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************