"phorbin" wrote in message
...
In article , Charlie says...
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 20:37:48 -0700, "aluckyguess" wrote:

I wonder if this is what is killing the bee's?


I believe it is one of several contributing factors.

The underlying cause is as old as mankind........greed.

Well said.

And we sit here and talk about it like a bunch of ninnies. That'll fix it.
--
Dave

Dioclese wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Dioclese wrote:
"aluckyguess" wrote in message
...
All farmers need to ban together and never buy anything from
them.
Some one needs to pass a law that if you are falsely accused you
get
1000 times your legal fees. Then tere would be plenty of big
firms
to help.


Someone. Who? Big corps own Congress and the Senate.

And this is why more and more restrictions get placed on tobacco
companies and automobile manufacturers and the like? Because they
_love_ being regulated?

The delegation
system used as part of voting is the thing of the past. A slap in
the face for the typical voter of today. Yet, the lemmings of
today
are typically ignorant of this. And, if they are aware, don't
care.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Well, sorta. Laws get passed, the corps "find" legal loopholes for
the laws they permitted Congress to pass.

Why did they permit the laws to be passed at all if they own the
Congress (by the way, the Senate is part of Congress).

Too much limelight for
tobacco and automobiles.

So how does being widely publicized change anything?

But, they are still dragging their feet
regarding gas mileage requirements. Early Honda Civics
(underpowered
I admit) were getting real 50 mpg highway.

That was without all the safety crap that according to your hypothesis
the automobile manufacturers decided to enact laws to force themselves
to install. The best any Civic ever did was 52 EPA MPG highway. And
I really don't want to try to get on that highway when there's
significant truck traffic in anything with such poor acceleration.



--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Dioclese wrote:
An actual war, we can do what's been done in the past.
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Dioclese wrote:
"Jan Flora" wrote in message
...
Billy, Charlie, Everyone --

Go read this:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...monsanto200805

Jan

Specifically, I would like to know exactly what Monsanto's patents
are. If its genetically engineered, how is that a patent?

It's not that it's genetically engineered, it's that it's resistant
to Roundup or produces BT toxin or whatever.

How can
one patent a lifeform, good or bad for the humankind?

By going down to the patent office and filing a form.

The link kind
of said it, profit is the goal. If the law allows it, they go for
it. Lock in their patents, and attack those who don't adhere.
Mother nature, here in S. TX ain't adhering either. Sprayed half
the
dilution recommended roundup on a roadbase driveway in full sun,
the
native foliage returned in less that 2 months.

Same plants or new ones from seed? Ordinary Roundup doesn't kill
seed in the soil and it doesn't kill roots. They have formulations
that will control weeds for up to 4 months and that will kill the
root, but those features aren't in the "normal" formulation. Try
the one that kills roots and the one that is good for 4 months and
if those don't work, _then_ complain.

Also tried, at the
same time in different area of same driveway, recommended dilution
similar results. This, despite TX summer heat. Worse yet, for
Monsanto, all is green in the same treated driveway this spring
despite the severe drought.

What makes you think that Roundup is supposed to prevent this? It
doesn't permantly render soil infertile you know. Seems to me that
you didn't bother to read the label on the product to find out what
it is and is not supposed to do. You spray it on a weed the weed
may die or may just die back to the root depending on the species
and how well established it is. Anything that tries to grow in the
spot the weed occupied, including another weed, will grow fine. If
it rendered soil infertile, which it would have to do to prevent
the
driveway from being "green this spring", then it wouldn't be much
use in preparing fields for planting and every time you used it on
a
weed in a lawn there would be a permanent hole in the location the
weed had occupied.

Next time, after you use the Roundup, try planting something that
will displace the weeds.

The solution for these locked-in farmers is simple, get seed from
a
different source. Grow seed bearing crop intentionally for their
own
use. Stop using roundup.

Stop making money as farmers who don't follow your suggestion
undercut your prices. Farmers aren't in business for fun you
know--they have bills to pay.

Somebody needs to toss some Monsanto soybeans or whatever into
various legislators' flowerbeds and then sic Monsanto on 'em.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Would hardly classify Roundup as a true herbicide. Rather, a
renewablely needed product to temporarily eradicate most foliage.
Otherwise known as a racket, gimmick. But, only a Monsanto stock
holder would do a reply as yours.

Since you choose to make a snotty personal attack, I'm done with you.
plonk

By the way, wipe the foam off your mouth and try some lead foil in
your hat, the tin isn't working.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote:

Dioclese wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Dioclese wrote:
"aluckyguess" wrote in message
...
All farmers need to ban together and never buy anything from
them.
Some one needs to pass a law that if you are falsely accused you
get
1000 times your legal fees. Then tere would be plenty of big
firms
to help.


Someone. Who? Big corps own Congress and the Senate.

And this is why more and more restrictions get placed on tobacco
companies and automobile manufacturers and the like? Because they
_love_ being regulated?

The delegation
system used as part of voting is the thing of the past. A slap in
the face for the typical voter of today. Yet, the lemmings of
today
are typically ignorant of this. And, if they are aware, don't
care.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Well, sorta. Laws get passed, the corps "find" legal loopholes for
the laws they permitted Congress to pass.

Why did they permit the laws to be passed at all if they own the
Congress (by the way, the Senate is part of Congress).

Too much limelight for
tobacco and automobiles.

So how does being widely publicized change anything?

But, they are still dragging their feet
regarding gas mileage requirements. Early Honda Civics
(underpowered
I admit) were getting real 50 mpg highway.

That was without all the safety crap that according to your hypothesis
the automobile manufacturers decided to enact laws to force themselves
to install. The best any Civic ever did was 52 EPA MPG highway. And
I really don't want to try to get on that highway when there's
significant truck traffic in anything with such poor acceleration.



--

Poor acceleration would have given us what? Well, it would have reduced
our dependence on petroleum and slowed down global warming. That would
be a good thing, huh?
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...ID=00037A5 D-
A938-150E-A93883414B7F0000
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote:

Dioclese wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Dioclese wrote:
"aluckyguess" wrote in message
...
All farmers need to ban together and never buy anything from
them.
Some one needs to pass a law that if you are falsely accused you
get
1000 times your legal fees. Then tere would be plenty of big
firms
to help.


Someone. Who? Big corps own Congress and the Senate.

And this is why more and more restrictions get placed on tobacco
companies and automobile manufacturers and the like? Because they
_love_ being regulated?

The delegation
system used as part of voting is the thing of the past. A slap in
the face for the typical voter of today. Yet, the lemmings of
today
are typically ignorant of this. And, if they are aware, don't
care.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Well, sorta. Laws get passed, the corps "find" legal loopholes for
the laws they permitted Congress to pass.

Why did they permit the laws to be passed at all if they own the
Congress (by the way, the Senate is part of Congress).

Too much limelight for
tobacco and automobiles.

So how does being widely publicized change anything?

But, they are still dragging their feet
regarding gas mileage requirements. Early Honda Civics
(underpowered
I admit) were getting real 50 mpg highway.

That was without all the safety crap that according to your hypothesis
the automobile manufacturers decided to enact laws to force themselves
to install. The best any Civic ever did was 52 EPA MPG highway. And
I really don't want to try to get on that highway when there's
significant truck traffic in anything with such poor acceleration.



--

Poor acceleration would have given us what? Well, it would have reduced
our dependence on petroleum and slowed down global warming. That would
be a good thing, huh?
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...ID=00037A5 D-
A938-150E-A93883414B7F0000
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

Don't worry about it. Its another fear tactic, similar to gotta have an SUV
to live with the other traffic to survive an impact. Same people who took
this hook, line, and sinker also ride in family style, bicycles, and run on
roads with motorist fools on them. I ain't figured that out to date.

--
Dave

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Dioclese wrote:
An actual war, we can do what's been done in the past.
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Dioclese wrote:
"Jan Flora" wrote in message
...
Billy, Charlie, Everyone --

Go read this:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...monsanto200805

Jan

Specifically, I would like to know exactly what Monsanto's patents
are. If its genetically engineered, how is that a patent?

It's not that it's genetically engineered, it's that it's resistant
to Roundup or produces BT toxin or whatever.

How can
one patent a lifeform, good or bad for the humankind?

By going down to the patent office and filing a form.

The link kind
of said it, profit is the goal. If the law allows it, they go for
it. Lock in their patents, and attack those who don't adhere.
Mother nature, here in S. TX ain't adhering either. Sprayed half
the
dilution recommended roundup on a roadbase driveway in full sun,
the
native foliage returned in less that 2 months.

Same plants or new ones from seed? Ordinary Roundup doesn't kill
seed in the soil and it doesn't kill roots. They have formulations
that will control weeds for up to 4 months and that will kill the
root, but those features aren't in the "normal" formulation. Try
the one that kills roots and the one that is good for 4 months and
if those don't work, _then_ complain.

Also tried, at the
same time in different area of same driveway, recommended dilution
similar results. This, despite TX summer heat. Worse yet, for
Monsanto, all is green in the same treated driveway this spring
despite the severe drought.

What makes you think that Roundup is supposed to prevent this? It
doesn't permantly render soil infertile you know. Seems to me that
you didn't bother to read the label on the product to find out what
it is and is not supposed to do. You spray it on a weed the weed
may die or may just die back to the root depending on the species
and how well established it is. Anything that tries to grow in the
spot the weed occupied, including another weed, will grow fine. If
it rendered soil infertile, which it would have to do to prevent
the
driveway from being "green this spring", then it wouldn't be much
use in preparing fields for planting and every time you used it on
a
weed in a lawn there would be a permanent hole in the location the
weed had occupied.

Next time, after you use the Roundup, try planting something that
will displace the weeds.

The solution for these locked-in farmers is simple, get seed from
a
different source. Grow seed bearing crop intentionally for their
own
use. Stop using roundup.

Stop making money as farmers who don't follow your suggestion
undercut your prices. Farmers aren't in business for fun you
know--they have bills to pay.

Somebody needs to toss some Monsanto soybeans or whatever into
various legislators' flowerbeds and then sic Monsanto on 'em.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Would hardly classify Roundup as a true herbicide. Rather, a
renewablely needed product to temporarily eradicate most foliage.
Otherwise known as a racket, gimmick. But, only a Monsanto stock
holder would do a reply as yours.

Since you choose to make a snotty personal attack, I'm done with you.
plonk

By the way, wipe the foam off your mouth and try some lead foil in
your hat, the tin isn't working.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



As I would expect from a Monsanto stockholder to reply...
--
Dave

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:00:13 -0500, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:



And we sit here and talk about it like a bunch of ninnies. That'll fix
it.

Oh ye of little faith.......

"Give me a place to stand and with a lever I will move the whole
world." - Archimedes

How can one be sure that words may not move the world......

Charlie

My point being, if the information and evidence is there, talking, at one
time or another is just dust in the wind. Need to act.

Irregardless the outcome of Monsanto, I believe a lifeform lineage should
never be obliged as property to any owner or otherwise. Kinda like breeding
dogs, then, patenting a specific new breed ad infinitum.
--
Dave

In article ,
"Dioclese" NONE wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:00:13 -0500, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:



And we sit here and talk about it like a bunch of ninnies. That'll fix
it.

Oh ye of little faith.......

"Give me a place to stand and with a lever I will move the whole
world." - Archimedes

How can one be sure that words may not move the world......

Charlie

My point being, if the information and evidence is there, talking, at one
time or another is just dust in the wind. Need to act.

Irregardless the outcome of Monsanto, I believe a lifeform lineage should
never be obliged as property to any owner or otherwise. Kinda like breeding
dogs, then, patenting a specific new breed ad infinitum.

And what happens when the life form is cognitive?
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

In article ,
"Dioclese" NONE wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote:

Dioclese wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Dioclese wrote:
"aluckyguess" wrote in message
...
All farmers need to ban together and never buy anything from
them.
Some one needs to pass a law that if you are falsely accused you
get
1000 times your legal fees. Then tere would be plenty of big
firms
to help.


Someone. Who? Big corps own Congress and the Senate.

And this is why more and more restrictions get placed on tobacco
companies and automobile manufacturers and the like? Because they
_love_ being regulated?

The delegation
system used as part of voting is the thing of the past. A slap in
the face for the typical voter of today. Yet, the lemmings of
today
are typically ignorant of this. And, if they are aware, don't
care.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Well, sorta. Laws get passed, the corps "find" legal loopholes for
the laws they permitted Congress to pass.

Why did they permit the laws to be passed at all if they own the
Congress (by the way, the Senate is part of Congress).
The patenting of life forms started with a bacteria that could
metabolize oil spills, bim, batta, boom, the next thing you know John
Moore had his genetic code patented, wihout his knowledge, by his doctor.
http://www.biology.buffalo.edu/cours...es/visuals/Joh
n_Moore.html and then Monsanto et al. ran like a bunch of thieves, which
of course they are.

Too much limelight for
tobacco and automobiles.

So how does being widely publicized change anything?

But, they are still dragging their feet
regarding gas mileage requirements. Early Honda Civics
(underpowered
I admit) were getting real 50 mpg highway.

That was without all the safety crap that according to your hypothesis
the automobile manufacturers decided to enact laws to force themselves
to install. The best any Civic ever did was 52 EPA MPG highway. And
I really don't want to try to get on that highway when there's
significant truck traffic in anything with such poor acceleration.



--

Poor acceleration would have given us what? Well, it would have reduced
our dependence on petroleum and slowed down global warming. That would
be a good thing, huh?
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...ID=00037A5 D-
A938-150E-A93883414B7F0000
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

Don't worry about it. Its another fear tactic, similar to gotta have an SUV
to live with the other traffic to survive an impact. Same people who took
this hook, line, and sinker also ride in family style, bicycles, and run on
roads with motorist fools on them. I ain't figured that out to date.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

http://deltafarmpress.com/news/070903-Monsanto-Patent/