The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

True, with a caveat or two: Any material absorbes nitrogen as it
decomposes. If it doesn't contain much nitrogen of its own, the deficit
comes from its surroundings. Having said that, if the wood chips or
whatever are on the surface, they won't steal much N from the soil under
them. And if the "brown" material is partially rotted already, there's
less of an issue.
So, let it rot and weather as mulch before turning it in, or partially
compost first, and you'll be fine.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

--
USA
North Carolina Foothills
USDA Zone 7a

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

In article ,
Gary Woods wrote:

The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

True, with a caveat or two: Any material absorbes nitrogen as it
decomposes. If it doesn't contain much nitrogen of its own, the deficit
comes from its surroundings. Having said that, if the wood chips or
whatever are on the surface, they won't steal much N from the soil under
them. And if the "brown" material is partially rotted already, there's
less of an issue.
So, let it rot and weather as mulch before turning it in, or partially
compost first, and you'll be fine.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

I think of rotting as burning. Everything burns up some faster than
others. Rusting is oxidation aka a slow burn.

A book that touches on this as a side issue is "Arctic Dreams " which
notes the slow decay in arctic areas. Dead animals and foot prints
about for years. Many stars and due for a reread.

--
Bill Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Bill who putters wrote:
In article ,
Gary Woods wrote:

The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen
in the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or
true?

True, with a caveat or two: Any material absorbes nitrogen as it
decomposes. If it doesn't contain much nitrogen of its own, the
deficit comes from its surroundings. Having said that, if the wood
chips or
whatever are on the surface, they won't steal much N from the soil
under them. And if the "brown" material is partially rotted
already, there's
less of an issue.
So, let it rot and weather as mulch before turning it in, or
partially compost first, and you'll be fine.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at
home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420'
elevation. NY WO G

I think of rotting as burning. Everything burns up some faster than
others. Rusting is oxidation aka a slow burn.


A better way of describing it would be being eaten rather than burnt.
Burning doesn't involve nitrogen whereas the microbes that decompose wood do
use up nitrogen as well as oxygen.

Gary had it pretty well right. Nitrogen is used up to some extent but it
may not be an issue and it gets returned later. The situation has to be
fairly extreme for nitrogen draw down to severely deplete the soil. This
can be used to your advantage by using sawdust on paths, little or nothing
will grow in it for a year or two.

David

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

I've found a few glitches in Gaia's Garden, like using a circular
sprinkler to water a keyhole bed containing tomatoes, to name one. For
immediate use, it sounds as if the web site is advocating adding green
material (fall leaves, grass clippings) to the wood (log, limbs, twigs)
which will contain some nitrogen. They also advocate manure in place of
the green material. The book talks of using grass as well, but also
suggest straw, and sod (from sod I know nothing). Brown materials won't
contain nitrogen, but according to Gaia's Garden the hugelkulture
releases heat and moisture which encourages growth.
If I were doing this, I would use manure with the wood and, at a
minimum, the equivalent of 18 lbs of chicken manure/ 100 sq. ft..
Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit Sheep
N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4 .70
P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4 .30
K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60 .90

As I mentioned to "The Cook" earlier,"In terms of both its physical and
chemical properties, wood is an exceptionally difficult substrate to
degrade. One of the principal reasons is that wood contains very low
levels of nitrogen, which is needed to produce the enzymes that degrade
the main structural polmers of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry
weight of wood), hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%)."
http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...Biology/woodro
ts.htm

Here we have contradictory statements for Hugelkultur (green and brown
amendments). We are told that composting wood is good for heat and
humidity. We know that fungi need nitrogen to break down the wood. I
would stay away from adding more brown material to the wood.

Otherwise, it sounds OK for potatoes, berries, and melons, but squash
require high inputs of nitrogen. If growing squash, I would add organic
fish emulsion twice a month, until flowering (then no further nitrogen),
to insure nitrogen levels are sufficient.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

"Dan L." wrote in message

Permaculture by Toby Hemenway"

Now that name is a blast from the past. He used to post in the
alt.permaculture newsgroup many moons ago.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:41:14 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.


Actually my husband and I were discussing the cedar chips versus grass
clippings as mulch for the rhubarb. He is thinking that the cedar
would be there for a long time. I am thinking that the chips cost
money and would get moved into the other parts of the garden. Grass
clippings a free and do provide some nutrients for the plants as well
as helping to keep the weeds down. We do have about an acre of grass
that needs to be mowed regularly.
--
USA
North Carolina Foothills
USDA Zone 7a

"Dan L." wrote in message
...
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.


19th century market gardeners near Paris used a very similar technique.
Adding enough manure or green material to the wood created a hot compost
pile underneath the soil. This allowed earlier planting and much higher
prices for the early veggies.
Steve

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:41:14 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.


Actually my husband and I were discussing the cedar chips versus grass
clippings as mulch for the rhubarb. He is thinking that the cedar
would be there for a long time. I am thinking that the chips cost
money and would get moved into the other parts of the garden. Grass
clippings a free and do provide some nutrients for the plants as well
as helping to keep the weeds down. We do have about an acre of grass
that needs to be mowed regularly.

Cedar chips would be the opposite of grass clippings as a mulch. Are we
talking mulch as a ground cover, or mulch as a nutrient? Cedar chips
breakdown slowly, making them a good ground cover, but a poor nutrient.
Grass clipping break down quickly, making them a quick nutrient source
for soil microbes.
----
"wood often contains potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are
deposited in the heartwood. In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds
are usually tannins, well know for their ability to cross-link proteins,
making animal skins resistant to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a
range of phenolic compounds such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and
tropolones. The most toxic of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which
act as uncouplers of oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly
abundant in cedarwood, making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for
high-quality garden furnishings, etc."
http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...Biology/woodro
ts.htm
----
Am I missing a piece of the puzzle?
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

I've found a few glitches in Gaia's Garden, like using a circular
sprinkler to water a keyhole bed containing tomatoes, to name one. For

The book is interesting. I like the garden design ideas. Garden
techniques I am not so sure. I am not sure if Amazon.com is a curse or
blessing More in common than shoes

immediate use, it sounds as if the web site is advocating adding green
material (fall leaves, grass clippings) to the wood (log, limbs, twigs)
which will contain some nitrogen. They also advocate manure in place of
the green material. The book talks of using grass as well, but also
suggest straw, and sod (from sod I know nothing). Brown materials won't
contain nitrogen, but according to Gaia's Garden the hugelkulture
releases heat and moisture which encourages growth.
If I were doing this, I would use manure with the wood and, at a
minimum, the equivalent of 18 lbs of chicken manure/ 100 sq. ft..
Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit Sheep

N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4 .70

P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4 .30

K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60 .90

As I mentioned to "The Cook" earlier,"In terms of both its physical and
chemical properties, wood is an exceptionally difficult substrate to
degrade. One of the principal reasons is that wood contains very low
levels of nitrogen, which is needed to produce the enzymes that degrade
the main structural polmers of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry
weight of wood), hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%)."
http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...Biology/woodro
ts.htm

Here we have contradictory statements for Hugelkultur (green and brown
amendments). We are told that composting wood is good for heat and
humidity. We know that fungi need nitrogen to break down the wood. I
would stay away from adding more brown material to the wood.

Sounds like this could be a good way to jump start a garden in cold
Michigan. I would just need a row cover on those late frost dates.
Chemistry and Biology was not on my candy store list. A weakness on my
part.

I have lots of grass and chicken poop mixed in with the straw. Hen House
thing. So adding Manure with straw to the wood might be a mixed blessing.

Otherwise, it sounds OK for potatoes, berries, and melons, but squash
require high inputs of nitrogen. If growing squash, I would add organic
fish emulsion twice a month, until flowering (then no further nitrogen),
to insure nitrogen levels are sufficient.

I only plant ONE squash plant and thats it, all that is needed.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Dan L." wrote in message

Permaculture by Toby Hemenway"

Now that name is a blast from the past. He used to post in the
alt.permaculture newsgroup many moons ago.

He probably got rich from your postings

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article ,
"Steve Peek" wrote:

"Dan L." wrote in message
...
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.


19th century market gardeners near Paris used a very similar technique.
Adding enough manure or green material to the wood created a hot compost
pile underneath the soil. This allowed earlier planting and much higher
prices for the early veggies.
Steve

What was old then is now new again

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article ,
"Steve Peek" wrote:

"Dan L." wrote in message
...
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.


19th century market gardeners near Paris used a very similar technique.
Adding enough manure or green material to the wood created a hot compost
pile underneath the soil. This allowed earlier planting and much higher
prices for the early veggies.
Steve

What was old then is now new again

Right down to putting cloches over the plants. We forgot a lot with the
"green revolution".
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html