Hello,

Id like to report my garden results so far. I did the straw cover garden
with ground cover for weed issues. In a Ruth Stout kinda
That part is fantastic. Ive been following the advice from the nematode
book. And trying to get my soil back in check. And am trying to not use
weed or bug killers. I have Very little weeding even though the fabric
rotted in the sun. The straw held down the weeds very good.

I have the following successes.

Stupendous corn 6 ft tall. Ears are looking good so far.
Stupendous Heirloom Tomato plants. None red yet. For the record Ive always
had great maters.
Eggplants doing above average. I still have A couple of stunted plants.
But the big ones have flowers. They seemed very iffy and slow growing at
the beginning.
Peppers are doing fine.
Four mixes of heirloom Lettuce went nuts . I couldnt eat it fast enough and.
I lost over half to bolting and seeding. The ones still out there are about
3 feet tall. And taste bitter.
Red Onion sets were mixed. They all grew fast and tall . Some developed
halfway underground , some seeded without getting big underground. Some
barely got bigger then the set themselves but grew really tall. I used most
as green onions.
Celery is doing great too. As long as I water it daily.

Now the failures.

I tried seeding the following plants. All failed outside. Green beans,
peas, Carrots, Beets, Broccoli.
I reseeded some more beans elsewhere and in planters and they are weak and
flimsy. One flimsy plant developed one flimsy pea pod. I lost track of a
lot of them to weeds.

But all the reseeded beans are still alive.

One beet plant developed the beet above ground . It was about 3/4 inch
around and about 3 inches long. With short 1 inch roots just below the
surface. I moved it and buried it and it died.

I cant get root plants to grow here apparently. But everything else is
booming and growing very fast.


And the final issue.

I found a baby toad in my garden. Which is relevent because I had for many
years sprayed bug and weed killers excessively. And strerilized the soil.
And I havnt seen toads in many years either. I suspect i have no worms or
very little. And I used to be loaded with worms . There are no bees here
either , again due to me past years spraying. And I removed all my blighted
fruit trees that attracted them.

Im taking the toad as a good sign. Because Im not near natural water.

I dont seem to have any major bug issues.

I have japanese beetles now feasting on my grapes. I dont eat the grapes but
theres thousands in there. They tried for my corn a little but i sprayed
them with a bit of garden plant bug killer. And theyre staying on the
grapes.

Early in the season , I had flea beetles severly on the egg plants. But
these very little chewing now.

And suggestions for how to figure out why I cant get root plants to grow.


Thank you

Diesel

In article ,
"None4U" wrote:

Hello,

Id like to report my garden results so far. I did the straw cover garden
with ground cover for weed issues. In a Ruth Stout kinda
That part is fantastic. Ive been following the advice from the nematode
book. And trying to get my soil back in check. And am trying to not use
weed or bug killers. I have Very little weeding even though the fabric
rotted in the sun. The straw held down the weeds very good.

I have the following successes.

Stupendous corn 6 ft tall. Ears are looking good so far.
Stupendous Heirloom Tomato plants. None red yet. For the record Ive always
had great maters.
Eggplants doing above average. I still have A couple of stunted plants.
But the big ones have flowers. They seemed very iffy and slow growing at
the beginning.
Peppers are doing fine.
Four mixes of heirloom Lettuce went nuts . I couldnt eat it fast enough and.
I lost over half to bolting and seeding. The ones still out there are about
3 feet tall. And taste bitter.
Red Onion sets were mixed. They all grew fast and tall . Some developed
halfway underground , some seeded without getting big underground. Some
barely got bigger then the set themselves but grew really tall. I used most
as green onions.
Celery is doing great too. As long as I water it daily.

Now the failures.

I tried seeding the following plants. All failed outside. Green beans,
peas, Carrots, Beets, Broccoli.
I reseeded some more beans elsewhere and in planters and they are weak and
flimsy. One flimsy plant developed one flimsy pea pod. I lost track of a
lot of them to weeds.

But all the reseeded beans are still alive.

One beet plant developed the beet above ground . It was about 3/4 inch
around and about 3 inches long. With short 1 inch roots just below the
surface. I moved it and buried it and it died.

I cant get root plants to grow here apparently. But everything else is
booming and growing very fast.


And the final issue.

I found a baby toad in my garden. Which is relevent because I had for many
years sprayed bug and weed killers excessively. And strerilized the soil.
And I havnt seen toads in many years either. I suspect i have no worms or
very little. And I used to be loaded with worms . There are no bees here
either , again due to me past years spraying. And I removed all my blighted
fruit trees that attracted them.

Im taking the toad as a good sign. Because Im not near natural water.

I dont seem to have any major bug issues.

I have japanese beetles now feasting on my grapes. I dont eat the grapes but
theres thousands in there. They tried for my corn a little but i sprayed
them with a bit of garden plant bug killer. And theyre staying on the
grapes.

Early in the season , I had flea beetles severly on the egg plants. But
these very little chewing now.

And suggestions for how to figure out why I cant get root plants to grow.


Thank you

Diesel

You didn't say anything about amendments to the garden (manure, bone
meal, ect.). I've never used a ground cover. After spreading my
amendments (18.37 lb. chicken manure/ 100 sq.ft., 3 lb. rock phosphate/
100/sq.ft., and one gallon of wood ashes per square yard on clay soil, I
lay down newspaper (or cardboard) over the pre-existing vegetation, and
cover that with alfalfa/lucerne ($14 - $15/bale). The earth worms seem
to love it. This is probably too rich in nitrogen, which, as in
composting, should be in a ratio of 25/1 for carbon/nitrogen. You may
want to add some additional manure as straw has no nitrogen to offer the
soil ecology.

I've had poor experiences germinating in the soil, especially with
mulch, where even rolly-pollies become your enemy. Germinating inside
has worked well for me, and then moving them into the soil when they are
5 - 6 in. tall.

Peas need to go into the ground when it is still too cool for most
plants. Here in N. California, I'm thinking March now, after planting in
April this year. They are turning brown now.

I've had poor success with carrots and radishes. The best I did was on
an area that wasn't mulched (no cover for the beasties). This year I
tried it again, and ran into problems with our rascally raccoon digging
the soft soil of the carrot patch (unfortunately raccoons seem to like
the food that they find in mulch, and our blueberries), which has been
subsequently armored with 2"X 4" wire fencing laid on the ground (he
seems to like long, sweeping, digging strokes, and avoids the wire). But
basically, for carrots, radishes, parsnips, and beets: soft soil, no
mulch until plants are established.

Beans get germinated inside, and go outside at 5". I haven't had any
problems with the beans. Ours are in flower now.

I had trouble with eggplants too, but it seems to have cleared up on its
own.

Now would be a good time to plan ahead on the Japanese beetles and
spray with "Milky Spore"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_spore
and
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/milky-spore.html

It will take a few years to completely control them but it is classic
Integrated Pest Management (IPM).

If you do heavy mulching with a carbon/nitrogen ratio or 25/1, the
earthworms will return in large numbers. As for the bees, it may not be
your fault. THe wackos across the street from us grow ornamentals and
think nothing of bombing the place with Sevin. I try to have flowers for
the bees to work from early spring on. We are fortunate that the main
spring weed here is wild onion which attracts the bees, and then we also
have wisteria, chinese lanterns, valerian, peaches, violets, and
assorted herbs that keep the bees coming. It can be as easy as a large
(2' X 2') planting of alyssum in the middle of your garden.

The frog seems a good omen. Maybe a small pond with a place to hide. I'd
love some frogs for the slug and the snails, but we have a pride of
cats, 4 or 5 depending on whether Mr. Time-Share is here or not. He
usually shows up around dinner time (ours), and then goes back to a
neighbor who seems to have a better brand of cat food than we do. OK,
too much information ;O)

Hope some of this helps.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"None4U" wrote:

Hello,

Id like to report my garden results so far. I did the straw cover garden
with ground cover for weed issues. In a Ruth Stout kinda
That part is fantastic. Ive been following the advice from the nematode
book. And trying to get my soil back in check. And am trying to not use
weed or bug killers. I have Very little weeding even though the fabric
rotted in the sun. The straw held down the weeds very good.

I have the following successes.

Stupendous corn 6 ft tall. Ears are looking good so far.
Stupendous Heirloom Tomato plants. None red yet. For the record Ive
always
had great maters.
Eggplants doing above average. I still have A couple of stunted plants.
But the big ones have flowers. They seemed very iffy and slow growing
at
the beginning.
Peppers are doing fine.
Four mixes of heirloom Lettuce went nuts . I couldnt eat it fast enough
and.
I lost over half to bolting and seeding. The ones still out there are
about
3 feet tall. And taste bitter.
Red Onion sets were mixed. They all grew fast and tall . Some developed
halfway underground , some seeded without getting big underground. Some
barely got bigger then the set themselves but grew really tall. I used
most
as green onions.
Celery is doing great too. As long as I water it daily.

Now the failures.

I tried seeding the following plants. All failed outside. Green beans,
peas, Carrots, Beets, Broccoli.
I reseeded some more beans elsewhere and in planters and they are weak
and
flimsy. One flimsy plant developed one flimsy pea pod. I lost track of a
lot of them to weeds.

But all the reseeded beans are still alive.

One beet plant developed the beet above ground . It was about 3/4 inch
around and about 3 inches long. With short 1 inch roots just below the
surface. I moved it and buried it and it died.

I cant get root plants to grow here apparently. But everything else is
booming and growing very fast.


And the final issue.

I found a baby toad in my garden. Which is relevent because I had for
many
years sprayed bug and weed killers excessively. And strerilized the soil.
And I havnt seen toads in many years either. I suspect i have no worms
or
very little. And I used to be loaded with worms . There are no bees here
either , again due to me past years spraying. And I removed all my
blighted
fruit trees that attracted them.

Im taking the toad as a good sign. Because Im not near natural water.

I dont seem to have any major bug issues.

I have japanese beetles now feasting on my grapes. I dont eat the grapes
but
theres thousands in there. They tried for my corn a little but i
sprayed
them with a bit of garden plant bug killer. And theyre staying on the
grapes.

Early in the season , I had flea beetles severly on the egg plants. But
these very little chewing now.

And suggestions for how to figure out why I cant get root plants to grow.


Thank you

Diesel

You didn't say anything about amendments to the garden (manure, bone
meal, ect.). I've never used a ground cover. After spreading my
amendments (18.37 lb. chicken manure/ 100 sq.ft., 3 lb. rock phosphate/
100/sq.ft., and one gallon of wood ashes per square yard on clay soil, I
lay down newspaper (or cardboard) over the pre-existing vegetation, and
cover that with alfalfa/lucerne ($14 - $15/bale). The earth worms seem
to love it. This is probably too rich in nitrogen, which, as in
composting, should be in a ratio of 25/1 for carbon/nitrogen. You may
want to add some additional manure as straw has no nitrogen to offer the
soil ecology.


I didnt ammend anything. I threw some fertilizer down at tilling time.
And Ive added watered fish emulsion once.



I've had poor experiences germinating in the soil, especially with
mulch, where even rolly-pollies become your enemy. Germinating inside
has worked well for me, and then moving them into the soil when they are
5 - 6 in. tall.

Peas need to go into the ground when it is still too cool for most
plants. Here in N. California, I'm thinking March now, after planting in
April this year. They are turning brown now.

I've had poor success with carrots and radishes. The best I did was on
an area that wasn't mulched (no cover for the beasties). This year I
tried it again, and ran into problems with our rascally raccoon digging
the soft soil of the carrot patch (unfortunately raccoons seem to like
the food that they find in mulch, and our blueberries), which has been
subsequently armored with 2"X 4" wire fencing laid on the ground (he
seems to like long, sweeping, digging strokes, and avoids the wire). But
basically, for carrots, radishes, parsnips, and beets: soft soil, no
mulch until plants are established.

Beans get germinated inside, and go outside at 5". I haven't had any
problems with the beans. Ours are in flower now.

I had trouble with eggplants too, but it seems to have cleared up on its
own.


Apparently mine have too.



Now would be a good time to plan ahead on the Japanese beetles and
spray with "Milky Spore"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_spore
and
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/milky-spore.html

It will take a few years to completely control them but it is classic
Integrated Pest Management (IPM).

If you do heavy mulching with a carbon/nitrogen ratio or 25/1, the
earthworms will return in large numbers. As for the bees, it may not be
your fault. THe wackos across the street from us grow ornamentals and
think nothing of bombing the place with Sevin. I try to have flowers for
the bees to work from early spring on. We are fortunate that the main
spring weed here is wild onion which attracts the bees, and then we also
have wisteria, chinese lanterns, valerian, peaches, violets, and
assorted herbs that keep the bees coming. It can be as easy as a large
(2' X 2') planting of alyssum in the middle of your garden.

The frog seems a good omen. Maybe a small pond with a place to hide. I'd
love some frogs for the slug and the snails, but we have a pride of
cats, 4 or 5 depending on whether Mr. Time-Share is here or not. He
usually shows up around dinner time (ours), and then goes back to a
neighbor who seems to have a better brand of cat food than we do. OK,
too much information ;O)

Hope some of this helps.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene



I was hoping for some soil reason why some plants are going nuts and
others are dying.

Maybe its just as simple as getting plants from the greenhouse. Everything
I got from them went nuts. All the root plants i tried to seed died. Well
almost.

I do feel better though.

Cant wait until next year.


Thanks

Diesel

None4U wrote:

...

where are you at? what
is the lay of the land/garden
area where this is happening?
it might be too low or flooded.

describe your seed planting
methods?

what kind of soil conditions do you
have underneath the mulch? mulch
is only good for many seedlings after
the plants are growing and established
as it can cause damping off type
problems or other rot troubles.

what kind of rain and
temperatures did you have
when trying to get the seeds
to go?

i suspect it was too cold
and wet for you when you planted
and they drowned or rotted, but
hard to say for sure.


songbird

In article ,
"None4U" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"None4U" wrote:

Hello,

Id like to report my garden results so far. I did the straw cover garden
with ground cover for weed issues. In a Ruth Stout kinda
That part is fantastic. Ive been following the advice from the nematode
book. And trying to get my soil back in check. And am trying to not use
weed or bug killers. I have Very little weeding even though the fabric
rotted in the sun. The straw held down the weeds very good.

I have the following successes.

Stupendous corn 6 ft tall. Ears are looking good so far.
Stupendous Heirloom Tomato plants. None red yet. For the record Ive
always
had great maters.
Eggplants doing above average. I still have A couple of stunted plants.
But the big ones have flowers. They seemed very iffy and slow growing
at
the beginning.
Peppers are doing fine.
Four mixes of heirloom Lettuce went nuts . I couldnt eat it fast enough
and.
I lost over half to bolting and seeding. The ones still out there are
about
3 feet tall. And taste bitter.
Red Onion sets were mixed. They all grew fast and tall . Some developed
halfway underground , some seeded without getting big underground. Some
barely got bigger then the set themselves but grew really tall. I used
most
as green onions.
Celery is doing great too. As long as I water it daily.

Now the failures.

I tried seeding the following plants. All failed outside. Green beans,
peas, Carrots, Beets, Broccoli.
I reseeded some more beans elsewhere and in planters and they are weak
and
flimsy. One flimsy plant developed one flimsy pea pod. I lost track of a
lot of them to weeds.

But all the reseeded beans are still alive.

One beet plant developed the beet above ground . It was about 3/4 inch
around and about 3 inches long. With short 1 inch roots just below the
surface. I moved it and buried it and it died.

I cant get root plants to grow here apparently. But everything else is
booming and growing very fast.


And the final issue.

I found a baby toad in my garden. Which is relevent because I had for
many
years sprayed bug and weed killers excessively. And strerilized the soil.
And I havnt seen toads in many years either. I suspect i have no worms
or
very little. And I used to be loaded with worms . There are no bees here
either , again due to me past years spraying. And I removed all my
blighted
fruit trees that attracted them.

Im taking the toad as a good sign. Because Im not near natural water.

I dont seem to have any major bug issues.

I have japanese beetles now feasting on my grapes. I dont eat the grapes
but
theres thousands in there. They tried for my corn a little but i
sprayed
them with a bit of garden plant bug killer. And theyre staying on the
grapes.

Early in the season , I had flea beetles severly on the egg plants. But
these very little chewing now.

And suggestions for how to figure out why I cant get root plants to grow.


Thank you

Diesel

You didn't say anything about amendments to the garden (manure, bone
meal, ect.). I've never used a ground cover. After spreading my
amendments
(18.37 lb. chicken manure/ 100 sq.ft.,
Nitrogen for vegetative growth

3 lb. rock phosphate/100/sq.ft.,
Phosphorus for root and flower development

and one gallon of wood ashes per square yard on clay soil,
Potassium for the chlorophyl, and general plant health
I
lay down newspaper (or cardboard) over the pre-existing vegetation, and
cover that with alfalfa/lucerne ($14 - $15/bale). The earth worms seem
to love it. This is probably too rich in nitrogen, which, as in
composting, should be in a ratio of 25/1 for carbon/nitrogen. You may
want to add some additional manure as straw has no nitrogen to offer the
soil ecology.


I didnt ammend anything. I threw some fertilizer down at tilling time.
And Ive added watered fish emulsion once.

"Tilling Time"?
Rototilling time?
If so, that could be where most of your worms have gone, to humus.
Earthworms give critical support to bacteria, and fungi in the
rhizosphere of the soil. Some rhizosphere-inhabiting bacteria
(rhizobacteria) are antagonistic to plant-parasitic nematodes.*

I really recommend "no-dig" gardening. It's better for the soil, easier
on the back, and definitely easier on the earthworms.




I've had poor experiences germinating in the soil, especially with
mulch, where even rolly-pollies become your enemy. Germinating inside
has worked well for me, and then moving them into the soil when they are
5 - 6 in. tall.

Peas need to go into the ground when it is still too cool for most
plants. Here in N. California, I'm thinking March now, after planting in
April this year. They are turning brown now.

I've had poor success with carrots and radishes. The best I did was on
an area that wasn't mulched (no cover for the beasties). This year I
tried it again, and ran into problems with our rascally raccoon digging
the soft soil of the carrot patch (unfortunately raccoons seem to like
the food that they find in mulch, and our blueberries), which has been
subsequently armored with 2"X 4" wire fencing laid on the ground (he
seems to like long, sweeping, digging strokes, and avoids the wire). But
basically, for carrots, radishes, parsnips, and beets: soft soil, no
mulch until plants are established.

Beans get germinated inside, and go outside at 5". I haven't had any
problems with the beans. Ours are in flower now.

I had trouble with eggplants too, but it seems to have cleared up on its
own.


Apparently mine have too.



Now would be a good time to plan ahead on the Japanese beetles and
spray with "Milky Spore"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_spore
and
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/milky-spore.html

It will take a few years to completely control them but it is classic
Integrated Pest Management (IPM).

If you do heavy mulching with a carbon/nitrogen ratio or 25/1, the
earthworms will return in large numbers. As for the bees, it may not be
your fault. THe wackos across the street from us grow ornamentals and
think nothing of bombing the place with Sevin. I try to have flowers for
the bees to work from early spring on. We are fortunate that the main
spring weed here is wild onion which attracts the bees, and then we also
have wisteria, chinese lanterns, valerian, peaches, violets, and
assorted herbs that keep the bees coming. It can be as easy as a large
(2' X 2') planting of alyssum in the middle of your garden.

The frog seems a good omen. Maybe a small pond with a place to hide. I'd
love some frogs for the slug and the snails, but we have a pride of
cats, 4 or 5 depending on whether Mr. Time-Share is here or not. He
usually shows up around dinner time (ours), and then goes back to a
neighbor who seems to have a better brand of cat food than we do. OK,
too much information ;O)

Hope some of this helps.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene



I was hoping for some soil reason why some plants are going nuts and
others are dying.

Phosphates (P of N-P-K fame) stimulate *ROOT*, and flower development.
With all that carbon source, little of the nitrogen from the fish
emulsion will find its way to your plants for growth.
Maybe its just as simple as getting plants from the greenhouse. Everything
I got from them went nuts. All the root plants i tried to seed died. Well
almost.

I do feel better though.

Cant wait until next year.


Thanks

Diesel
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene

"songbird" wrote in message
...
None4U wrote:

...

where are you at?

Ohio

what
is the lay of the land/garden
area where this is happening?

Flat .
it might be too low or flooded.


Nope.

describe your seed planting
methods?

Put them in the tilled ground, water them.

what kind of soil conditions do you have underneath the mulch? mulch
is only good for many seedlings after the plants are growing and
established as it can cause damping off type problems or other rot
troubles.

tilled soil .




what kind of rain and temperatures did you have when trying to get the
seeds
to go?

It was cold still in frost risk. But I didnt get any frost . Quite a
bit of spring rain.


i suspect it was too cold
and wet for you when you planted
and they drowned or rotted, but
hard to say for sure.


songbird

None4U wrote:
songbird wrote:
....
what kind of rain and temperatures did you have when trying to get
the seeds
to go?

It was cold still in frost risk. But I didnt get any frost .
Quite a bit of spring rain.

rotted.


songbird

In article ,
"songbird" wrote:

None4U wrote:
songbird wrote:
...
what kind of rain and temperatures did you have when trying to get
the seeds
to go?

It was cold still in frost risk. But I didnt get any frost .
Quite a bit of spring rain.

rotted.


songbird

Save the Leaf Litter
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"songbird" wrote:

None4U wrote:
songbird wrote:
...
what kind of rain and temperatures did you have when trying to get
the seeds
to go?

It was cold still in frost risk. But I didnt get any frost .
Quite a bit of spring rain.

rotted.


songbird

Save the Leaf Litter
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene


Thanks.