In article , ask@itshall
says...
"phorbin" wrote in message
...
Not to get too hard nosed about it but I think everyone should follow
the protocol of using OT: to label something that is not gardening.

Some of the subjects that I believe are deserving of the label OT (snip)

Environmental issues including Global warming/Carbon sequestration

You must be living in the US if you think that environmental issues and
climate change is OT for gardeners.

Few US gardeners seem to have yet woken up to the fact that there are some
of us gardeners in the world who HAVE to take environmental issues and
climate change into account in how we garden.

And I use the term 'climate change' as opposed to 'global warming' which
seems to only be used now by those who have no interest in the subject.

I picked the items in the list because I believe they are the
most likely to produce protracted, unpleasant exchanges.

Some topics due to their tendency to produce unpleasantness should be
labelled OT as a matter of course. Those subjects vary from group to
group though politics tends to be a universal oatmeal spoiler.

My own take on most subject matter is that common sense usually
indicates when and where the initial line needs to be drawn.

If I cooked a subject line "Climate change is affecting fairies" and in
the text stated "and they're standing in line at my dew harvesting
system to collect a sip because it's so dry here." I think I could claim
that my post is right on topic.

FWIW We've been watching Australia ever since it became clear to us that
Australia is on the front lines of climate change and the understanding
you're developing about water reserves.

I find my writing falling prey to the habit of calling climate change,
global warming now and then, maybe now now now and then. I'm working to
reeducate the neurons.

aside... We had bean volunteers come up this spring, our buddleia's wood
wasn't winter killed and a number of zone 6 to zone 7 plants made it
through. ...never happened before. We had at least a zone 6 winter in
London Ontario.

FWIW We've been watching Australia ever since it became clear to us
that Australia is on the front lines of climate change and the
understanding you're developing about water reserves.


From my perspective I find this applause ironic. Take two cases.

The water management of the Murray-Darling basin. Everybody has know it has
been stuffed for years. Everybody knows if we don't fix it we are going to
be importing lots of food real soon. Everybody knows it will take a
national approach to fix it and that because of previous gross
over-allocations of water (which are no-one's fault BTW !!!!!) somebody will
have to take less. There was much running around screaming 'something must
be done'. So we have a report from an national independent commission
saying all this and what happens?

The irrigators all take up positions behind the barricades declaring 'take
my water from my cold dead hand'. From some the message is very clear the
commission got the objective wrong, don't re-organise water management so
that the basin can become sustainable. Don't head off the situation where
we all go broke in 30 years time. Do it so that we, here, now keep getting
everything we want and a bit more. If you ever wanted a living example of
the tragedy of the commons this is it.

We have a Prime Minister who wants to study climate change more - you don't
want to rush into these things. We have an opposition leader who can't
quite make up his mind if climate change is real, it depend on which way the
last opinion poll is heading what he says. We have a plethora of
politicians and a dirth of statesmen.

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:


FWIW We've been watching Australia ever since it became clear to us
that Australia is on the front lines of climate change and the
understanding you're developing about water reserves.


From my perspective I find this applause ironic. Take two cases.

The water management of the Murray-Darling basin. Everybody has know it has
been stuffed for years. Everybody knows if we don't fix it we are going to
be importing lots of food real soon. Everybody knows it will take a
national approach to fix it and that because of previous gross
over-allocations of water (which are no-one's fault BTW !!!!!) somebody will
have to take less. There was much running around screaming 'something must
be done'. So we have a report from an national independent commission
saying all this and what happens?

The irrigators all take up positions behind the barricades declaring 'take
my water from my cold dead hand'. From some the message is very clear the
commission got the objective wrong, don't re-organise water management so
that the basin can become sustainable. Don't head off the situation where
we all go broke in 30 years time. Do it so that we, here, now keep getting
everything we want and a bit more. If you ever wanted a living example of
the tragedy of the commons this is it.

We have a Prime Minister who wants to study climate change more - you don't
want to rush into these things. We have an opposition leader who can't
quite make up his mind if climate change is real, it depend on which way the
last opinion poll is heading what he says. We have a plethora of
politicians and a dirth of statesmen.

David

"The last wave" DVD diversion.

http://thurly.net/07ee

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
http://www.informationisbeautiful.ne...l-supplements/

Bill who putters wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:


FWIW We've been watching Australia ever since it became clear to us
that Australia is on the front lines of climate change and the
understanding you're developing about water reserves.


From my perspective I find this applause ironic. Take two cases.

The water management of the Murray-Darling basin. Everybody has
know it has been stuffed for years. Everybody knows if we don't fix
it we are going to be importing lots of food real soon. Everybody
knows it will take a national approach to fix it and that because of
previous gross over-allocations of water (which are no-one's fault
BTW !!!!!) somebody will have to take less. There was much running
around screaming 'something must be done'. So we have a report from
an national independent commission saying all this and what happens?

The irrigators all take up positions behind the barricades declaring
'take my water from my cold dead hand'. From some the message is
very clear the commission got the objective wrong, don't re-organise
water management so that the basin can become sustainable. Don't
head off the situation where we all go broke in 30 years time. Do it
so that we, here, now keep getting everything we want and a bit
more. If you ever wanted a living example of the tragedy of the
commons this is it.

We have a Prime Minister who wants to study climate change more -
you don't want to rush into these things. We have an opposition
leader who can't quite make up his mind if climate change is real,
it depend on which way the last opinion poll is heading what he
says. We have a plethora of politicians and a dirth of statesmen.

David

"The last wave" DVD diversion.

http://thurly.net/07ee

Are you suggesting we need or have a Mulkril?

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:


FWIW We've been watching Australia ever since it became clear to us
that Australia is on the front lines of climate change and the
understanding you're developing about water reserves.


From my perspective I find this applause ironic. Take two cases.

The water management of the Murray-Darling basin. Everybody has know it has
been stuffed for years. Everybody knows if we don't fix it we are going to
be importing lots of food real soon. Everybody knows it will take a
national approach to fix it and that because of previous gross
over-allocations of water (which are no-one's fault BTW !!!!!) somebody will
have to take less. There was much running around screaming 'something must
be done'. So we have a report from an national independent commission
saying all this and what happens?

The irrigators all take up positions behind the barricades declaring 'take
my water from my cold dead hand'. From some the message is very clear the
commission got the objective wrong, don't re-organise water management so
that the basin can become sustainable. Don't head off the situation where
we all go broke in 30 years time. Do it so that we, here, now keep getting
everything we want and a bit more. If you ever wanted a living example of
the tragedy of the commons this is it.

We have a Prime Minister who wants to study climate change more - you don't
want to rush into these things. We have an opposition leader who can't
quite make up his mind if climate change is real, it depend on which way the
last opinion poll is heading what he says. We have a plethora of
politicians and a dirth of statesmen.

David

I suspect that your politicians are well funded, as are ours. The
problem is that they work for themselves and not the electorate. Here,
we are told, that it is the Republicans against the Democrats, when both
parties support the same positions. If you don't like who represents
you, vote third party. At least it will cost the *******s more.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

The water management of the Murray-Darling basin. (snip)
There was much running around screaming 'something must
be done'. So we have a report from an national independent commission
saying all this and what happens?

The irrigators all take up positions behind the barricades declaring 'take
my water from my cold dead hand'. From some the message is very clear the
commission got the objective wrong, don't re-organise water management so
that the basin can become sustainable. Don't head off the situation where
we all go broke in 30 years time. Do it so that we, here, now keep getting
everything we want and a bit more. If you ever wanted a living example of
the tragedy of the commons this is it.

Yup. A pretty good summation of the idiocy of many of the comments we've
seem from the rural community. Totally NIMBY - stuff someone else's
community/farm/jobs, but leave me and mine alone.

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Bill who putters wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:


FWIW We've been watching Australia ever since it became clear to us
that Australia is on the front lines of climate change and the
understanding you're developing about water reserves.


From my perspective I find this applause ironic. Take two cases.

The water management of the Murray-Darling basin. Everybody has
know it has been stuffed for years. Everybody knows if we don't fix
it we are going to be importing lots of food real soon. Everybody
knows it will take a national approach to fix it and that because of
previous gross over-allocations of water (which are no-one's fault
BTW !!!!!) somebody will have to take less. There was much running
around screaming 'something must be done'. So we have a report from
an national independent commission saying all this and what happens?

The irrigators all take up positions behind the barricades declaring
'take my water from my cold dead hand'. From some the message is
very clear the commission got the objective wrong, don't re-organise
water management so that the basin can become sustainable. Don't
head off the situation where we all go broke in 30 years time. Do it
so that we, here, now keep getting everything we want and a bit
more. If you ever wanted a living example of the tragedy of the
commons this is it.

We have a Prime Minister who wants to study climate change more -
you don't want to rush into these things. We have an opposition
leader who can't quite make up his mind if climate change is real,
it depend on which way the last opinion poll is heading what he
says. We have a plethora of politicians and a dirth of statesmen.

David

"The last wave" DVD diversion.

http://thurly.net/07ee

Are you suggesting we need or have a Mulkril?

David

Nope just saying the movie is exceptional and perhaps timeless.
The 3 reviews are worth a look.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
http://www.informationisbeautiful.ne...l-supplements/

In article , says...

FWIW We've been watching Australia ever since it became clear to us
that Australia is on the front lines of climate change and the
understanding you're developing about water reserves.


From my perspective I find this applause ironic. Take two cases.

The water management of the Murray-Darling basin. Everybody has know it has
been stuffed for years. Everybody knows if we don't fix it we are going to
be importing lots of food real soon. Everybody knows it will take a
national approach to fix it and that because of previous gross
over-allocations of water (which are no-one's fault BTW !!!!!) somebody will
have to take less. There was much running around screaming 'something must
be done'. So we have a report from an national independent commission
saying all this and what happens?

The irrigators all take up positions behind the barricades declaring 'take
my water from my cold dead hand'. From some the message is very clear the
commission got the objective wrong, don't re-organise water management so
that the basin can become sustainable. Don't head off the situation where
we all go broke in 30 years time. Do it so that we, here, now keep getting
everything we want and a bit more. If you ever wanted a living example of
the tragedy of the commons this is it.

We have a Prime Minister who wants to study climate change more - you don't
want to rush into these things. We have an opposition leader who can't
quite make up his mind if climate change is real, it depend on which way the
last opinion poll is heading what he says. We have a plethora of
politicians and a dirth of statesmen.

Whew...

Ah well... open mouth ...insert foot ...show ignorance and
embarrassment.

Je suis désolé ('I'm sorry')

I don't quite know where to go with this. --Some mornings having the
point driven home that humans can be rigid, stupid, selfish and lack
reasonable foresight everywhere and not just here, really sucks.

I suppose I filled in my blanks with the 'hope' that Australia was doing
better than Canada. Clearly my assumptions were superficial.

And now that I know ...what to do?

Bill who putters wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Bill who putters wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:


FWIW We've been watching Australia ever since it became clear to
us that Australia is on the front lines of climate change and the
understanding you're developing about water reserves.


From my perspective I find this applause ironic. Take two cases.

The water management of the Murray-Darling basin. Everybody has
know it has been stuffed for years. Everybody knows if we don't
fix it we are going to be importing lots of food real soon.
Everybody knows it will take a national approach to fix it and
that because of previous gross over-allocations of water (which
are no-one's fault BTW !!!!!) somebody will have to take less.
There was much running around screaming 'something must be done'.
So we have a report from an national independent commission saying
all this and what happens?

The irrigators all take up positions behind the barricades
declaring 'take my water from my cold dead hand'. From some the
message is very clear the commission got the objective wrong,
don't re-organise water management so that the basin can become
sustainable. Don't head off the situation where we all go broke
in 30 years time. Do it so that we, here, now keep getting
everything we want and a bit more. If you ever wanted a living
example of the tragedy of the commons this is it.

We have a Prime Minister who wants to study climate change more -
you don't want to rush into these things. We have an opposition
leader who can't quite make up his mind if climate change is real,
it depend on which way the last opinion poll is heading what he
says. We have a plethora of politicians and a dirth of statesmen.

David

"The last wave" DVD diversion.

http://thurly.net/07ee

Are you suggesting we need or have a Mulkril?

David

Nope just saying the movie is exceptional and perhaps timeless.
The 3 reviews are worth a look.

Perhaps as well as OT we need a code to signify non sequiturs jumps.

D