Derald wrote:
....
Having said that, I must confess that a fragment of the familiar
colony persists (and has done for years) in and under the timber
retaining walls of one garden bed and I have the scars to prove it. I
don't use any "chemicals" in the garden and I know of no predators or
pathology that'll take the little *******s out so I just deal with
****ed off ants injecting fire into my feet and lower legs several times
each year. I can't guess whether or for how long the toxin remains in
an AWG's body but I'm sure to be loaded. It is possible to use the
ants' behavior pattern and tribal reaction to threats to minimize the
damage to ones self but I'm not telling.

of the phorid flies, certain species are predators of
fire ants.


songbird

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 00:44:27 -0400, Derald .
wrote:

Seems to me that in their native states a long term equilibrium exists
between predator and prey. As a general rule, predator species don't
eat themselves into extinction. One more alien species will not
eliminate the ants, guaranteed, and, if it _does_, who's to say what it
will eat next?

Look up a Pete Seeger song: "The People are Scratching," for a
humerous look at what happens when you try to change one thing.


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On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 12:14:06 -0400, Derald .
wrote:

Thanks! A post-muse Seeger flashback! ...it could happen....

I saw him play several times, living semi-locally to his home in
Beacon, NY....the other tune that pops up whenever I hear more of the
present craziness is "God Bless the Grass."
I hope Pete was right; right now truth seems to be unimportant...

(We now return you to your gardens, hopefully still in progress. I'm
making SWMBO Basmati Pilaf with Tatsoi greens, and whatever else I
feel like tossing in).


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Derald wrote:
songbird wrote:

of the phorid flies, certain species are predators of
fire ants.
Unfortunately they are not native, not present in sufficient number
to be meaningful, in short supply, not found on the handy homeowner
retail market. At least, I haven't found a source. You may find the
following citations interesting.

http://okaloosa.ifas.ufl.edu/2011Hor...esFireAnts.pdf

https://patch.com/texas/downtownaust...e-ants-zombies

http://journals.fcla.edu/flaent/article/view/56812

a bit busy this morning to read all of those, but
looks like they support my previous reading on the
topic.


Seems to me that in their native states a long term equilibrium exists
between predator and prey. As a general rule, predator species don't
eat themselves into extinction.

some barren islands would refute that blanket
statement...


One more alien species will not
eliminate the ants, guaranteed, and, if it _does_, who's to say what it
will eat next?

they've already been introduced to the USoA. like
the ants they will spread through time.

it may not stop them entirely, but the evidence i've
read says it gives them more of a challenge so that
other native species have more of a chance.

if they were not specific feeders they'd already have
been here (IMO) given that they've had 10,000 years to
travel the distance and plenty of alternative hosts to
use as skipping along points or stepping stones.

whenever there has been an introduced/non-native
species that becomes a problem it is usually because
the species has been introduced without the rest of
their system (prey species which would normally keep
them in check somewhat).


songbird

Derald wrote:
....
Yikes! Just walked through and noticed this hadn't been posted
yet. A little preoccupied, though. I'm told a storm is coming.

yep, i thought you were already gone.

the predicted track went back east and then has
gone west again.

i don't envy anyone in the path.

be safe.


songbird

On 9/8/2017 7:44 PM, songbird wrote:
Derald wrote:
...
Yikes! Just walked through and noticed this hadn't been posted
yet. A little preoccupied, though. I'm told a storm is coming.

yep, i thought you were already gone.

the predicted track went back east and then has
gone west again.

i don't envy anyone in the path.

be safe.


songbird

Isn't that strange, have lived on one coast or more for years on years,
rode out a few hurricanes, always bought houses on high ground. Harvey
just dropped about 50 inches of well-needed rain on us and ripped up
Houston proper. We never lost power, etc. through the whole storm. Then
along comes another one and it hit Florida. Probably another one will be
coming along.

We've always been lucky, none of our families has ever lost a house, not
much ever but a few trees. And a cow disappeared once upon a hurricane,
never found her again. I reckon a rustler got the cow or tornado in the
storm got her. At least I never had to get up early and milk her again.G

George

George Shirley wrote:
....
Isn't that strange, have lived on one coast or more for years on years,
rode out a few hurricanes, always bought houses on high ground. Harvey
just dropped about 50 inches of well-needed rain on us and ripped up
Houston proper. We never lost power, etc. through the whole storm. Then
along comes another one and it hit Florida. Probably another one will be
coming along.

eventually. Momma Nature isn't going to stop
cooking up storms. building and rebuilding
lowland structures is rather stupid, but people
are ... as long as they want to keep paying the
insurance and costs.


We've always been lucky, none of our families has ever lost a house, not
much ever but a few trees. And a cow disappeared once upon a hurricane,
never found her again. I reckon a rustler got the cow or tornado in the
storm got her. At least I never had to get up early and milk her again.G

do you have cold hands? mebbe it ran away?

what interested me the most with this one was
how the forecast first started with the storm
being further west, then it shifted quite a bit
east and then back to the west.

i just read an article about the forecast
models being worse than before. as usual complaints
of lack of funding. and not that i'm agreeing
entirely, but basic science should always be well
funded (and usually isn't).


songbird

On 9/9/2017 9:33 AM, songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
...
Isn't that strange, have lived on one coast or more for years on years,
rode out a few hurricanes, always bought houses on high ground. Harvey
just dropped about 50 inches of well-needed rain on us and ripped up
Houston proper. We never lost power, etc. through the whole storm. Then
along comes another one and it hit Florida. Probably another one will be
coming along.

eventually. Momma Nature isn't going to stop
cooking up storms. building and rebuilding
lowland structures is rather stupid, but people
are ... as long as they want to keep paying the
insurance and costs.


We've always been lucky, none of our families has ever lost a house, not
much ever but a few trees. And a cow disappeared once upon a hurricane,
never found her again. I reckon a rustler got the cow or tornado in the
storm got her. At least I never had to get up early and milk her again.G

do you have cold hands? mebbe it ran away?

what interested me the most with this one was
how the forecast first started with the storm
being further west, then it shifted quite a bit
east and then back to the west.

i just read an article about the forecast
models being worse than before. as usual complaints
of lack of funding. and not that i'm agreeing
entirely, but basic science should always be well
funded (and usually isn't).


songbird


There were plenty of people outside the US tracking it. EU models had
apparently appeared best. The climate change people make predictions 10
years out but weathermen are often wrong 2 days out.

I like the water but don't want to live where a 10 ft tide surge could
flood me. Even inland is at risk. Lower DE is coastal plane. I've
seen storm surge cross the road from the Atlantic ocean to the Rehoboth
bay. Lot of people live there and will eventually suffer. I like where
I live at about 300 ft above sea level in upper DE. A couple of years
ago, if hurricane Sandy had made the left turn a half hour sooner, DE
would have suffered the damage seen in NJ and NY.

On 9/9/2017 10:40 AM, Frank wrote:
On 9/9/2017 9:33 AM, songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
...
Isn't that strange, have lived on one coast or more for years on years,
rode out a few hurricanes, always bought houses on high ground. Harvey
just dropped about 50 inches of well-needed rain on us and ripped up
Houston proper. We never lost power, etc. through the whole storm. Then
along comes another one and it hit Florida. Probably another one will be
coming along.

Â*Â* eventually.Â* Momma Nature isn't going to stop
cooking up storms.Â* building and rebuilding
lowland structures is rather stupid, but people
are ...Â* as long as they want to keep paying the
insurance and costs.


We've always been lucky, none of our families has ever lost a house, not
much ever but a few trees. And a cow disappeared once upon a hurricane,
never found her again. I reckon a rustler got the cow or tornado in the
storm got her. At least I never had to get up early and milk her
again.G

Â*Â* do you have cold hands?Â* mebbe it ran away?Â*

Â*Â* what interested me the most with this one was
how the forecast first started with the storm
being further west, then it shifted quite a bit
east and then back to the west.

Â*Â* i just read an article about the forecast
models being worse than before.Â* as usual complaints
of lack of funding.Â* and not that i'm agreeing
entirely, but basic science should always be well
funded (and usually isn't).


Â*Â* songbird


There were plenty of people outside the US tracking it.Â* EU models had
apparently appeared best.Â* The climate change people make predictions 10
years out but weathermen are often wrong 2 days out.

I like the water but don't want to live where a 10 ft tide surge could
flood me.Â* Even inland is at risk.Â* Lower DE is coastal plane.Â* I've
seen storm surge cross the road from the Atlantic ocean to the Rehoboth
bay.Â* Lot of people live there and will eventually suffer.Â* I like where
I live at about 300 ft above sea level in upper DE.Â* A couple of years
ago, if hurricane Sandy had made the left turn a half hour sooner, DE
would have suffered the damage seen in NJ and NY.
That's the beauty of hurricane's, lots of movement and makes people look
for the correct time and way before it eats their houses.

My family had beach houses on the Bolivar Peninsula on the Texas coast
for fifty years or more. Eventually even the land they were on
disappeared too, no more beach houses since. Used to be fun taking the
kids down to the beach, do some swimming, some beach combing (odd stuff
washes ashore in Texas), and a lot of fishing and walking the beach in
the evening. It's been so long since we lost the last "camp" that I
can't even remember it. One aunt actually lived on the beach after her
husband retired and then they had to run and moved back to town.

A large part of my life I was a responder to many problems: storms,
fires, plants blowing up, injuries, and a few deaths. So goes the way of
an active safety professional. Three states, two foreign countries, and
lots of flight time. Now I'm retired but not bored, at least as long as
we have a library nearby. Old friends all say, "Aren't you bored?" Not
as long as I have a book nearby and my loved ones too. I don't have bad
dreams, have no regrets about a busy lifetime. Nowadays I can always
borrow a great grandkid and try to teach them something or, best of all,
just someone to hug regularly.

I will be 78 on 09/23/17 and am glad I'm still around to help the
younger crew.

George

On 9/9/2017 8:33 AM, songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
...
Isn't that strange, have lived on one coast or more for years on years,
rode out a few hurricanes, always bought houses on high ground. Harvey
just dropped about 50 inches of well-needed rain on us and ripped up
Houston proper. We never lost power, etc. through the whole storm. Then
along comes another one and it hit Florida. Probably another one will be
coming along.

eventually. Momma Nature isn't going to stop
cooking up storms. building and rebuilding
lowland structures is rather stupid, but people
are ... as long as they want to keep paying the
insurance and costs.


We've always been lucky, none of our families has ever lost a house, not
much ever but a few trees. And a cow disappeared once upon a hurricane,
never found her again. I reckon a rustler got the cow or tornado in the
storm got her. At least I never had to get up early and milk her again.G

do you have cold hands? mebbe it ran away?
Nope, my Dad trained me properly, cold hands on a cow's bag could get
you kicked, at the least. Warmed them with hot water in the winter, just
used bare hands in the summer. Dad grew up on a four generation farm and
knew a bit about cows.

what interested me the most with this one was
how the forecast first started with the storm
being further west, then it shifted quite a bit
east and then back to the west.

i just read an article about the forecast
models being worse than before. as usual complaints
of lack of funding. and not that i'm agreeing
entirely, but basic science should always be well
funded (and usually isn't).


songbird

My wife's family, mostly men, worked for the gubmint for at least forty
years for the two that worked for the gubmit. Her Dad and second
brother, all the rest of the family had real jobs and had to work. My
FIL told me flat out when I asked for his eldest daughter, and all the
rest of her too, that don't work for the feds. Took him at his word,
even though I had a fairly good offer from DC as I was getting out of
the Navy. I never missed not going to work for the feds, but managed to
work 47 years at what I wanted to do. Now I just lay around watching TV,
fetching groceries when needed and loving the other three generations of
our family, all the ones from us. Two kids and families, five grands and
three of their families, and the great grands are best of all, hug
them,and tell their folks it's time to take them home. G

George

Derald wrote:
songbird wrote:
Derald wrote:
...
Yikes! Just walked through and noticed this hadn't been posted
yet. A little preoccupied, though. I'm told a storm is coming.

yep, i thought you were already gone.

the predicted track went back east and then has
gone west again.

i don't envy anyone in the path.

be safe.

Well,hope you don't mind but I'll break protocol here and post a
portion of private correspondence he

no problem with me since nothing in there is
what i would consider private to me.


....
irresponsible but approaches reprehensible and definitely is a
disservice. The only, only, only tracking forecast that means anything
comes from the National Hurricane Center at 6-hour intervals.

that is all i actually have been following up until i
noticed the change from one direction back to the other.
it was "interesting"... i don't watch tv or the news
that much at all.


All of
that other bs like "european" and "spaghetti" models and "forecasts" and
multicolor zones of probability have nothing to do with reality or with
actually informing the public, IMO. I see them simply as additional
layers of "gee-whiz" technological eye candy intended to give the
station "public service" bragging rights and to keep the rubes tuned in
for the next commercial break. I mean, with enough garbage on the
screen, the more likely they are to be able to brag about their
"accuracy"; hah! I ask you, "What the hell good is a multicolor, moving
radar display that is 3-to-12 minutes behind reality?" I hope I don't
ever need radar to let me know it rained 6 minutes ago but I guess, "it
could happen".

as i've watched the local radar for many years
now i can say that it has helped a few times when
storms looked to be heading this way, but as you
know we have a lot of things that break up when
they get near so ... it is only for warning
purposes. i surely do watch the horizon here when
the weather seems potentially going to mess me up
or my plans for the day. now, what is funny is
that even with such things available it didn't do
any good the day when the small tornade came within
a few hundred yards of us. i happened to be busy
and didn't notice until afterwards that the neighbor's
garage was missing...


So there you have it, 'bird: The Full Monty.

....

my eyes! my eyes!

you know, i figured that container could be a
pretty safe space, but i would not want to get
"stuck" in there if some debris got wedged against
the door... if we don't hear from you in a week
or two i'll send someone to knock. you should
have enough food and water for that timeframe,
but air? got holes/winders?


songbird

Derald wrote:
....

he's written and said they are ok, but no power
yet.

*whew*


songbird

"songbird" wrote in message
...
Derald wrote:
...

he's written and said they are ok, but no power
yet.

*whew*



A real prepper would have had his wife pedalling on a bike to generate
enough power for the wifi?

Good to know he is safe. BUT I would like to see the house on the "prairie"

Mike

Derald wrote:
....
'bird, I'm probably finally going to dig that damned hole instead of
using an above ground pool but _shall_ have a mosquito hatchery in full
production RSN..

if you are only using the water for gardens and
flushing the emergency toilet you could put a screen
over it to keep the raccoonians out of there and
have a few black mollies, guppies or other surface
feeders to keep the skeeters down. or an even
finer mesh to keep them from getting in and laying
eggs. though to me the joy of keeping a pond would
be to be able to have a froggy or toad spot. i miss
the good old days when we had ponds to swim in out
back.


For reasons even more wildly off-topic, this storm has deepened my
resolve to avoid union-made products or services _and_ Walmart (a
gigantic predacious retailer) stores at (almost) any cost and has
convinced me that the "Walmart Shopper" is a distinct subspecies of
human being.

ok, well, i guess i'm that, but not often if it were
my own device/gumption and not Mom's i'm not sure how
much i would shop there as it is far enough away.


songbird

Derald wrote:
songbird wrote:
Derald wrote:

[...hmmm, hope this doesn't show up twice, but something
odd happened when i tried to send this...]

...
Yikes! Just walked through and noticed this hadn't been posted
yet. A little preoccupied, though. I'm told a storm is coming.

yep, i thought you were already gone.

the predicted track went back east and then has
gone west again.

i don't envy anyone in the path.

be safe.

Well,hope you don't mind but I'll break protocol here and post a
portion of private correspondence he

no problem with me since nothing in there is
what i would consider private to me.


....
irresponsible but approaches reprehensible and definitely is a
disservice. The only, only, only tracking forecast that means anything
comes from the National Hurricane Center at 6-hour intervals.

that is all i actually have been following up until i
noticed the change from one direction back to the other.
it was "interesting"... i don't watch tv or the news
that much at all.


All of
that other bs like "european" and "spaghetti" models and "forecasts" and
multicolor zones of probability have nothing to do with reality or with
actually informing the public, IMO. I see them simply as additional
layers of "gee-whiz" technological eye candy intended to give the
station "public service" bragging rights and to keep the rubes tuned in
for the next commercial break. I mean, with enough garbage on the
screen, the more likely they are to be able to brag about their
"accuracy"; hah! I ask you, "What the hell good is a multicolor, moving
radar display that is 3-to-12 minutes behind reality?" I hope I don't
ever need radar to let me know it rained 6 minutes ago but I guess, "it
could happen".

as i've watched the local radar for many years
now i can say that it has helped a few times when
storms looked to be heading this way, but as you
know we have a lot of things that break up when
they get near so ... it is only for warning
purposes. i surely do watch the horizon here when
the weather seems potentially going to mess me up
or my plans for the day. now, what is funny is
that even with such things available it didn't do
any good the day when the small tornade came within
a few hundred yards of us. i happened to be busy
and didn't notice until afterwards that the neighbor's
garage was missing...


So there you have it, 'bird: The Full Monty.

....

my eyes! my eyes!

you know, i figured that container could be a
pretty safe space, but i would not want to get
"stuck" in there if some debris got wedged against
the door... if we don't hear from you in a week
or two i'll send someone to knock. you should
have enough food and water for that timeframe,
but air? got holes/winders?


songbird