My background if you're interested:
I am very much a beginner to gardening. 38-year-old married man. I
am a Square Foot Gardener (SFG) in Northeast Louisiana.

My question:
I planted, from seed, Brusell Sprouts. They came up and grew to about
3-4 feet tall. They were originally in a raised SFG, a 4'x4'x6" box
about 3' off the ground. That box rotted and the bottom fell out. I
transplanted three of the plants to another SFG box located directly
on the ground. Within a few weeks they were covered with green
catepillars. They were in large numbers and ate through the leaves
and the budding sprouts. I pulled the plants today and discarded them
away from the SFG. My question is not so much about identifying the
worms, but about using pesticides in general on vegetable gardens.
Since I intend to eat what little I grow I would prefer not to use
pesticides, but on the other hand, insects are eating everything in my
two SFG boxes. I have also noticed small black ants, similar to sugar
ants or, as my wife refers to them, **** ants. I see them on my
zuccini and cucumber plants. I don't know for a fact they are eating
the leaves, but the leaves have been eaten on both types of plants by
something.

So, do I let them have the garden or use pesticides? If so, what type
of pesticide should I use?

Thanks a bunch. I need all the info I can get.

Ty

I'm with you Ty. I hate putting things on my plants that I won't eat myself.
I've been spraying garlic, tea, molasses, dish washing liquid, alcohol (of
course I have my own secret recipe for each) and just plain water on my plants
with bug problems. I also will spray ammonia and water for my slugs. That way I
even get the tiny ones I can't see.
I find the best way to get rid of the bugs you can see is use your hands to
pick them off and smoosh the *******s! Every morning I walk through my garden
with a little bucket of soapy water. I pluck the large snails and slugs (my
worst problems) I find and drop them in the bucket where they quickly drown. I
search my leaves for holes or tunnels or egg masses or even the tiny single
eggs laid by the dreaded spit squash borers that frequent my back yard. I try
to find problems before they become huge ones. I also never grow the same kind
of plant again if it has been problematic.
My point is if you give in and use the toxic pesticides, then the bugs still
win even though they are dead.
Jack

ATL wrote:

My background if you're interested:
I am very much a beginner to gardening. 38-year-old married man. I
am a Square Foot Gardener (SFG) in Northeast Louisiana.

My question:
I planted, from seed, Brusell Sprouts. They came up and grew to about
3-4 feet tall. They were originally in a raised SFG, a 4'x4'x6" box
about 3' off the ground. That box rotted and the bottom fell out. I
transplanted three of the plants to another SFG box located directly
on the ground. Within a few weeks they were covered with green
catepillars. They were in large numbers and ate through the leaves
and the budding sprouts. I pulled the plants today and discarded them
away from the SFG. My question is not so much about identifying the
worms, but about using pesticides in general on vegetable gardens.
Since I intend to eat what little I grow I would prefer not to use
pesticides, but on the other hand, insects are eating everything in my
two SFG boxes. I have also noticed small black ants, similar to sugar
ants or, as my wife refers to them, **** ants. I see them on my
zuccini and cucumber plants. I don't know for a fact they are eating
the leaves, but the leaves have been eaten on both types of plants by
something.

So, do I let them have the garden or use pesticides? If so, what type
of pesticide should I use?

Thanks a bunch. I need all the info I can get.

Ty
Hi Ty. I'm new to the SFG method too. I have 5 large raised beds all
in the SFG method. I have 4 brussel sprout plants that so far have not
become infested with cabbage worms (green caterpillars). My broccoli is
not infested either. Anyway, my view on using pesticides is that I try
to use the least damaging control first. In many cases this is manual
removal of the pests. For slugs, I use copper tape along the tops of
the raised beds and crushed egg shells in the beds. If manually
removing the pests is not possible, I use a homemade soap solution (3-4
slivers homemade clear soap, 2-4 drops olive oil, water to fill squirt
bottle) and spray that on the infested plants. I would imagine regular
bar soap and plain vegetable oil would work too except I have neither.
In the event an infestation is particularly bad, I might consider
resorting to Bug-B-Gone. The problem with this is it will knock out
beneficial bugs. I have some but have only used it on one rose bush.
I don't really like the idea of using it on edible plants. However, I
can see the benefit of knocking out the pests early in the season to
give your plants a chance. I also used companion plantings to help
prevent bug infestations in the first place. Aster is an ideal
companion plant as it repels most insects. I used the information found
on "Our Organic Gardening Message Board"
http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board...rgarden pests

That being said, there are other problems I have encountered. A
relative who grows tomatoes for a living took a look at my gardens. He
said to use Bravo, a fungicide on my tomatoes to protect against late
blight. Bravo can also be used on cucumbrs and potatoes. My prefered
fungicide is a chamomile tea solution but I may take his advice. Since
there is less space between the plants in a SFG, diseases can spread
quite easily so these are best dealt with as soon as they are noticed.

For larger pests, I use the scarecrow. It is a sprayer that attaches to
a hose and fires a short blast of water and when a critter sets of the
motion sensor. I started using this a few years ago for ponds and have
found it is equally effective in the garden.

Good morning Ty.

I grew Brussels sprouts, broccoli, and cabbage while living in Arkansas
(zone 7). I had little black bugs in addition to the green worms. I bought
a spray from Wal Mart that was supposed to be a safer one than most. It was
premixed and identified as a garden spray, not rose spray or squash spray.
I opened and read the little label that was attached to the bottle and it
said that I could use it twice in one season and up to 24 hours before
harvesting (if think the time was 24 hours, may have been 12). After using
it, the little green worms just drop off.

One other thing you can try is adjust the planting time.
I started my seedlings inside and planted them outside when I thought the
time was right. There that might be as early as February. Frost doesn't
hurt them, in fact after Brussels sprouts have been frosted twice, they
taste better. I understand that it removes the bitter taste and makes it
sweet.

Since moving to Kansas, I have grown them again, and found that I didn't
have the worm problem until after I had harvested the broccoli. I want to
try starting them in June and having them in the ground by July for a fall
crop. That might take care of all the bug problems.

Dwayne


"ATL" wrote in message
om...
My background if you're interested:
I am very much a beginner to gardening. 38-year-old married man. I
am a Square Foot Gardener (SFG) in Northeast Louisiana.

My question:
I planted, from seed, Brusell Sprouts. They came up and grew to about
3-4 feet tall. They were originally in a raised SFG, a 4'x4'x6" box
about 3' off the ground. That box rotted and the bottom fell out. I
transplanted three of the plants to another SFG box located directly
on the ground. Within a few weeks they were covered with green
catepillars. They were in large numbers and ate through the leaves
and the budding sprouts. I pulled the plants today and discarded them
away from the SFG. My question is not so much about identifying the
worms, but about using pesticides in general on vegetable gardens.
Since I intend to eat what little I grow I would prefer not to use
pesticides, but on the other hand, insects are eating everything in my
two SFG boxes. I have also noticed small black ants, similar to sugar
ants or, as my wife refers to them, **** ants. I see them on my
zuccini and cucumber plants. I don't know for a fact they are eating
the leaves, but the leaves have been eaten on both types of plants by
something.

So, do I let them have the garden or use pesticides? If so, what type
of pesticide should I use?

Thanks a bunch. I need all the info I can get.

Ty

I just came from my garden. It seems I had the same problem on my broccoli.
Green caterpillars all over each one. I just wasn't looking close enough to see
them before. They were very hard to see because of their color. But the damage
they caused was a sure sign something was there. I have about 20 plants. I just
squished each and every one of those nasty bugs and now the problem is gone. No
poison.

Jack

This is ATL and I just wanted to say thank you to all of you for
replying to my post. It's encouraging when you get good advice.

For what it's worth, I think moving the beds to ground level triggered
the infestation. But now that I have the problems I will make use of
your suggestions.

Thanks again
Ty

(Jack1000) wrote in message ...
I just came from my garden. It seems I had the same problem on my broccoli.
Green caterpillars all over each one. I just wasn't looking close enough to see
them before. They were very hard to see because of their color. But the damage
they caused was a sure sign something was there. I have about 20 plants. I just
squished each and every one of those nasty bugs and now the problem is gone. No
poison.

Jack