How long does juglone persist in the soil, and/or after trees are cut
down? I expect the now-sunny area I want to plant tomatoes in is full
of roots.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:05:32 GMT, Frogleg
wrote:

How long does juglone persist in the soil, and/or after trees are cut
down? I expect the now-sunny area I want to plant tomatoes in is full
of roots.

I _think_ juglone is released by the roots as they rot.

google, google, google

Ah, he

http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/HO/HO-193.pdf

According to this fact sheet, tomatoes are sensitive to juglone,
so you might want to consider containers or raised beds there for
a few years. Tilling it up and physically removing the larger
roots would probably help, but I wouldn't want to risk losing
plants there.

I understand wanting to use the space, I just had three large
mulberry-less mulberry trees taken out on Thursday. The center of
the triangle formed by the three trees is pretty barren. I don't
think it's a toxin problem, more a competition problem; but I'm
thinking I won't put anything but some sort of cover crop in that
area for a couple of years. These mulberry-less mulberry trees
sprout all along the roots, so I expect it will take a few years
to really kill the blasted things.

On a brighter note, though, I think they were the major reservoir
for the spit! thrip plague. Around the first of June I could
look up and see all the leaves on these massive trees curling up
from spit! thrip damage. I can't wait to see how my tomatoes
do this year!


Penelope


--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn"

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:17:53 -0400, Penelope Periwinkle
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:05:32 GMT, Frogleg
wrote:

How long does juglone persist in the soil, and/or after trees are cut
down? I expect the now-sunny area I want to plant tomatoes in is full
of roots.

I _think_ juglone is released by the roots as they rot.


http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/HO/HO-193.pdf

"toxicity can persist for some years after a tree is
removed." Hah! Big help. How *many* years, fellas? Trees came down
after Isabel in Sept, '03 (well, Mr. I'll Be There Tomorrow was
probably done by Dec). I note that the fact sheet mentions large
concentration under canopy, which gives me a little wiggle room.

Tilling it up and physically removing the larger
roots would probably help,

Not with *my* back!

These mulberry-less mulberry trees
sprout all along the roots, so I expect it will take a few years
to really kill the blasted things.

Mulberries are forever! They seem to *thrive* on eradication attempts.

Thanks for the reference. I got my plants yesterday, and am *aching*
to get them in the ground. Well, I still have a couple of Big Pots,
and maybe can find alternative locations for a while. Thanks.

Frogleg,

besides the other remedies suggested in the Purdue paper, you may
consider making the bed with compostables, injected with an appropriate
mushroom spawn (www.fungi.com). The purpose is to see if juglone can be
made to decay faster. Fungi have the strongest enzymes, and they
happily break down even petroleum derivatives that might be polluting a
given soil.

In general, organic matter will help by speeding the decay of matter
that is already present, by providing needed nitrogen that is nearly
absent in the roots (even fungi need it), by breeding a host of decay
agents, and by improving the rate of mixing between topsoil and the
lower layers.

Ask for a fungus that will go deep in the soil, not one that likes to
live in dead wood (ink caps are one such species). Fungi have the
strongest enzymes, and they might break down your juglone faster. You
may also ask for plugs to inject directly in the largest exposed roots,
or in the stump. The fungus will then propagate down the roots. You get
the mushrooms once or twice a year of course.

Raised beds by themselves may be of limited help. A healthy tomato
plant will go down four feet in light soil (light soil, the paper says,
minimizes the juglone toxicity). On the other hand, if your soil is
heavy, tomato roots might stop at a lower depth.

You could also put only tolerant veggies there the first year, and the
tomatoes elsewhere. There are advantage in having separate gardening
areas, and this is one.

il 1 May 2005 09:51:07 -0700, "simy1" wrote:

Frogleg,

besides the other remedies suggested in the Purdue paper, you may
consider making the bed with compostables, injected with an appropriate
mushroom spawn (www.fungi.com). The purpose is to see if juglone can be
[snip]

Just what is juglones?
--
Cheers,
Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]

On 06 May 2005 09:14:36 +1300, "Loki" wrote:


Just what is juglones?

"Many members of the walnut family (Juglandaceae) produce in their
tissues a chemical called Juglone. Production is highest in black
walnut (Juglans nigra) and butternut (Juglans cinerea), with members
of the genus Carya producing minimal amounts. Juglone is an
allelopathic substance, meaning it affects the growth of other plants.
Susceptible plants growing in close proximity to black walnut or
butternut may suffer growth stunting, wilt ("walnut wilt") and death."

http://www.hort.uconn.edu/plants/hel...ne/juglone.htm

A substance produced by certain trees' roots that really inhibit growth.
As I recall tomatoes are effected more than other plants. A defense
against any competing plants.

John!

Loki wrote:
Just what is juglones?

il Sat, 07 May 2005 12:36:51 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

On 06 May 2005 09:14:36 +1300, "Loki" wrote:


Just what is juglones?

"Many members of the walnut family (Juglandaceae) produce in their
tissues a chemical called Juglone. Production is highest in black
walnut (Juglans nigra) and butternut (Juglans cinerea), with members
of the genus Carya producing minimal amounts. Juglone is an
allelopathic substance, meaning it affects the growth of other plants.
Susceptible plants growing in close proximity to black walnut or
butternut may suffer growth stunting, wilt ("walnut wilt") and death."

http://www.hort.uconn.edu/plants/hel...ne/juglone.htm

Ahh yes, I wondered if that was them. Great for supressing weeds I'd
imagine. I did discover it wasn't good to wipe one's face with fresh
walnut stained hands, unless one was fond of swollen eyelids.

Great wood too.

--
Cheers,
Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]