I believe the is regulator functioning properly and not leaking. I am
beginning to see what effects Co2 has upon the pH. After getting my CO2
working again, the pH dropped from 7.5 to 6.5. This is having it run
24hr/day for 2 days. 65 gal tank. kH is 6.

I am keeping 3 Discus and 1 fairly mean Angel, 24 cardinal tetra, a
plec(8"), 2 clown loached, 2 Octinilus?sp, one of those albino looking corys
and of course plants.

This pH seem a bit low? For these fish I was going for a pH around 7. Should
I try and titrate the Co2 bubbles per second down to acheive this with the
CO2 tank running 24 hours/day?
Or whould it be better just to attached the power cord of the regulator to
the timer running my lights?

It seem logical to me that keeping it running 24hrs at a lower rate would
keep the pH more constant with less
swings as compared to hooking it up to a timer?

Arnt there devices that measure pH and automatically adjust your CO2? Are
they worth the cost? I would imagine they are not cheap.
thanks

"John H." wrote in message
...
I believe the is regulator functioning properly and not leaking. I am
beginning to see what effects Co2 has upon the pH. After getting my CO2
working again, the pH dropped from 7.5 to 6.5. This is having it run
24hr/day for 2 days. 65 gal tank. kH is 6.

I am keeping 3 Discus and 1 fairly mean Angel, 24 cardinal tetra, a
plec(8"), 2 clown loached, 2 Octinilus?sp, one of those albino looking
corys and of course plants.

This pH seem a bit low? For these fish I was going for a pH around 7.
Should I try and titrate the Co2 bubbles per second down to acheive this
with the CO2 tank running 24 hours/day?
Or whould it be better just to attached the power cord of the regulator to
the timer running my lights?

It seem logical to me that keeping it running 24hrs at a lower rate would
keep the pH more constant with less
swings as compared to hooking it up to a timer?

I've seen both approaches used. I went for stable PH.

Arnt there devices that measure pH and automatically adjust your CO2? Are
they worth the cost? I would imagine they are not cheap.
thanks

They're about $80 on eBay and definitely worth the aggravation saved futzing
with the cheap needle valve.

In article , says...
I believe the is regulator functioning properly and not leaking. I am
beginning to see what effects Co2 has upon the pH. After getting my CO2
working again, the pH dropped from 7.5 to 6.5. This is having it run
24hr/day for 2 days. 65 gal tank. kH is 6.

I am keeping 3 Discus and 1 fairly mean Angel, 24 cardinal tetra, a
plec(8"), 2 clown loached, 2 Octinilus?sp, one of those albino looking corys
and of course plants.

This pH seem a bit low? For these fish I was going for a pH around 7. Should
I try and titrate the Co2 bubbles per second down to acheive this with the
CO2 tank running 24 hours/day?
Or whould it be better just to attached the power cord of the regulator to
the timer running my lights?

It seem logical to me that keeping it running 24hrs at a lower rate would
keep the pH more constant with less
swings as compared to hooking it up to a timer?

Arnt there devices that measure pH and automatically adjust your CO2? Are
they worth the cost? I would imagine they are not cheap.
thanks


Using the handy chart from a Laborett test kit (or widely available on line), KH=6
and pH=6.5 would indicate 59 ppm CO2. This is too much by about a factor of 3, so
a bubble rate one third of what you have now would be a reasonable goal. With a
little luck you can reset to that level and get close on the first try. It takes a
while to reach equilibrium, so don't expect to make an adjustment on the needle
valve and see the pH respond quickly. Maybe 4-6 hours is a reasonable minimum
interval between setting and reading.

The (good) argument for why you want to flow CO2 continuously is that is produces
the most stable pH over time in most tanks. Using the light timer to control the
CO2 is based on the logic that CO2 is consumed by plants, so when the lights go
off this usage stops and the pH would drop too much. In most people's tanks, it
turns out that more CO2 is lost to the air than is consumed by the plants. Thus,
turning off the CO2 when dark creates a greater change in pH than would otherwise
occur.

In the bigger picture, there is a valid challenge to the idea that pH is such a
critical parameter. I recently posted a link to an interesting article by Wright
Huntley in one of the aquaria newsgroups. Netmax responded with further
information on the topic. The posting with link is he

http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/alt.aquaria/browse_thread/thread/4fe7ae452fe5dfbf/cbb195e106
32aa09?lnk=st&q=heresy+gpontis&rnum=1&hl=en#cbb195 e10632aa09

My personal interpretation of this is that we need to be concerned about exposing
fish to changes in TDS (total dissolved solids), but not very much about pH.

When it comes to aquarium pH controllers, I do not have direct experience. One day
I will buy one to satisfy a gadget urge and to generally see for myself how well
they work. I do have experience with pH probes and even designed the electronics
for one many years ago. I say that it should be remembered that a pH probe is a
delicate thing, subject to errors, and the ones for aquarium use have a finite
lifetime. Any error in the probe translate to an error in the aquarium's pH when
it is used as the sensing element of a pH feedback loop ( "controller" ). Every
accurate pH measuring device requires calibration with at least two pH standards.
If this is not done, accuracy is not assured no matter how convincing the digits
on the pH meter look. Since the internal reference of the aquarium pH probes is
not refillable, the probe also has a lifetime, beyond which response times get
longer and pH measurement drifts increase. The replacement probes cost something
like $30.

So, we are not comparing a fiddly needle valve with a rock solid, sure-fire pH
controller. We are comparing a fiddly needle valve with a fiddly pH
measuring/controlling device that needs periodic calibration and perhaps annual
replacement of the probe. My two CO2 regulators have proven to be quite stable
over time and I can honestly say that they are probably the lowest maintenance
items of everything connected to the aquarium. Nikki and others have posted here
that their experience was not as good. But I would say that it is well worthwhile
trying the basic system sans controller first. If yours settles into a stable flow
as many do, there is little reason to use the controller and a few reasons not to
use one.

"George Pontis" wrote in message
t...
In article , says...
I believe the is regulator functioning properly and not leaking. I am
beginning to see what effects Co2 has upon the pH. After getting my CO2
working again, the pH dropped from 7.5 to 6.5. This is having it run
24hr/day for 2 days. 65 gal tank. kH is 6.

I am keeping 3 Discus and 1 fairly mean Angel, 24 cardinal tetra, a
plec(8"), 2 clown loached, 2 Octinilus?sp, one of those albino looking
corys
and of course plants.

This pH seem a bit low? For these fish I was going for a pH around 7.
Should
I try and titrate the Co2 bubbles per second down to acheive this with
the
CO2 tank running 24 hours/day?
Or whould it be better just to attached the power cord of the regulator
to
the timer running my lights?

It seem logical to me that keeping it running 24hrs at a lower rate would
keep the pH more constant with less
swings as compared to hooking it up to a timer?

Arnt there devices that measure pH and automatically adjust your CO2? Are
they worth the cost? I would imagine they are not cheap.
thanks


Using the handy chart from a Laborett test kit (or widely available on
line), KH=6
and pH=6.5 would indicate 59 ppm CO2. This is too much by about a factor
of 3, so
a bubble rate one third of what you have now would be a reasonable goal.
With a
little luck you can reset to that level and get close on the first try. It
takes a
while to reach equilibrium, so don't expect to make an adjustment on the
needle
valve and see the pH respond quickly. Maybe 4-6 hours is a reasonable
minimum
interval between setting and reading.

The (good) argument for why you want to flow CO2 continuously is that is
produces
the most stable pH over time in most tanks. Using the light timer to
control the
CO2 is based on the logic that CO2 is consumed by plants, so when the
lights go
off this usage stops and the pH would drop too much. In most people's
tanks, it
turns out that more CO2 is lost to the air than is consumed by the plants.
Thus,
turning off the CO2 when dark creates a greater change in pH than would
otherwise
occur.

In the bigger picture, there is a valid challenge to the idea that pH is
such a
critical parameter. I recently posted a link to an interesting article by
Wright
Huntley in one of the aquaria newsgroups. Netmax responded with further
information on the topic. The posting with link is he

http://groups-
beta.google.com/group/alt.aquaria/browse_thread/thread/4fe7ae452fe5dfbf/cbb195e106
32aa09?lnk=st&q=heresy+gpontis&rnum=1&hl=en#cbb195 e10632aa09

My personal interpretation of this is that we need to be concerned about
exposing
fish to changes in TDS (total dissolved solids), but not very much about
pH.

When it comes to aquarium pH controllers, I do not have direct experience.
One day
I will buy one to satisfy a gadget urge and to generally see for myself
how well
they work. I do have experience with pH probes and even designed the
electronics
for one many years ago. I say that it should be remembered that a pH probe
is a
delicate thing, subject to errors, and the ones for aquarium use have a
finite
lifetime. Any error in the probe translate to an error in the aquarium's
pH when
it is used as the sensing element of a pH feedback loop ( "controller" ).
Every
accurate pH measuring device requires calibration with at least two pH
standards.
If this is not done, accuracy is not assured no matter how convincing the
digits
on the pH meter look. Since the internal reference of the aquarium pH
probes is
not refillable, the probe also has a lifetime, beyond which response times
get
longer and pH measurement drifts increase. The replacement probes cost
something
like $30.

So, we are not comparing a fiddly needle valve with a rock solid,
sure-fire pH
controller. We are comparing a fiddly needle valve with a fiddly pH
measuring/controlling device that needs periodic calibration and perhaps
annual
replacement of the probe. My two CO2 regulators have proven to be quite
stable
over time and I can honestly say that they are probably the lowest
maintenance
items of everything connected to the aquarium. Nikki and others have
posted here
that their experience was not as good. But I would say that it is well
worthwhile
trying the basic system sans controller first. If yours settles into a
stable flow
as many do, there is little reason to use the controller and a few reasons
not to
use one.

sound advise, thanks