Has anyone attempted to remove and replace portions of the gravel of their
tank, without first tearing the tank down?

I have larger gravel (about 1/4") and would like to replace some of it with
a layer of finer pebbles.

Is there a trick to doing this?

I removed gravel while angel parents were in there. I would not do it
again.

Bob
"John Worfin" wrote in message
. net...
Has anyone attempted to remove and replace portions of the gravel of their
tank, without first tearing the tank down?

I have larger gravel (about 1/4") and would like to replace some of it
with
a layer of finer pebbles.

Is there a trick to doing this?

"John Worfin" wrote in message
. net...
Has anyone attempted to remove and replace portions of the gravel of their
tank, without first tearing the tank down?

I did, just be aware that it may test your patience.

Be prepared to take it slowly. As you remove the gravel, you will be
removing some of the nitrifying bacteria colony. Monitor your ammonia and
nitrite levels as you proceed. You may also stir up great clouds of crud
into the water column. When it gets to the point where you can't stand it,
wait a day for it to settle and start again.

I used a regular plastic spatula (pancake turner) to lift the gravel off the
bottom and move it to a waiting large fish net. Once the net was full, I
transferred it to a waiting five gallon bucket. I generally removed 6-8 cups
at a time.

The hard part was when I replaced it all with fluorite. Even after
aggressive rinsing, that stuff is dusty.

chet

Be prepared to take it slowly. As you remove the gravel, you will be
removing some of the nitrifying bacteria colony. Monitor your ammonia and
nitrite levels as you proceed. You may also stir up great clouds of crud

He might want to think about overfiltering the water during the change. An
extra cycled filter would help with the bacteria, and mechanical filtration
in the filter would help with the crud clouds.
-Cesium


---
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Check the "Changing Substrate of an established fully planted Tank?" topic
which I posted few weeks back.

I am changing my substrate of an established tank to 100% Fluorite. I am
changing 1 foot every weekend. First time I had little bit of Ammonia spike
because of the disturbance. I changed 50% of water and it was ok.

--
Thank You

Dominic
http://www.dlink.org/aqua

"John Worfin" wrote in message
. net...
Has anyone attempted to remove and replace portions of the gravel of their
tank, without first tearing the tank down?

I have larger gravel (about 1/4") and would like to replace some of it
with
a layer of finer pebbles.

Is there a trick to doing this?

"John Worfin" wrote in message
. net...
Has anyone attempted to remove and replace portions of the gravel of their
tank, without first tearing the tank down?

I have larger gravel (about 1/4") and would like to replace some of it
with
a layer of finer pebbles.

Is there a trick to doing this?



What sort of filtration (UGF/cannister/wetdry)do you use and number of
plants?
I did a 2/3 change with no probs at all with a fair amount of plants and
lighting but you'll need a real powerful external filter(Eheim 2213 in my
case to clear the crud). If you've got a UGF just do about 1/4 each week or
1/3 each 2 weeks. Just my 2c.

I have a lot of plants, and I use an Eheim 2226. I think I'll take the
advice of most of the group and do it in very small increments over time.


"Tasslehoff" wrote in message
u...

"John Worfin" wrote in message
. net...
Has anyone attempted to remove and replace portions of the gravel of
their
tank, without first tearing the tank down?

I have larger gravel (about 1/4") and would like to replace some of it
with
a layer of finer pebbles.

Is there a trick to doing this?



What sort of filtration (UGF/cannister/wetdry)do you use and number of
plants?
I did a 2/3 change with no probs at all with a fair amount of plants and
lighting but you'll need a real powerful external filter(Eheim 2213 in my
case to clear the crud). If you've got a UGF just do about 1/4 each week
or
1/3 each 2 weeks. Just my 2c.

"John Worfin" wrote in message
. net...
Has anyone attempted to remove and replace portions of the gravel of their
tank, without first tearing the tank down?

Just did this very task recently. I changed my 46g Bow Front from a South
American planted tank to an African Rift lake design. The answer is very
slowly over a long period of time. A month actually.

I started by siphoning out a little of the gravel with every water change.
I do water changes of 10% weekly. The tank contained about 30 lbs. (US) of
gravel and Flourite (mixed 50/50). Each change event removed 1 to 1.5 lbs
of gravel. This gravel was put aside for use in another tank. I then
installed an aragonite substrate (thoroughly washed) for the new Rift tank.
I also added about 30 lbs of limestone rock and a piece of bog wood (yea, I
know about the acidic trait of the wood). pH went from about 6.8 to 8.2.
The fish that were in the tank were one Synodontis eupterus and 5
Tanichthys albonubes (White Cloud Mountain Minnows). Filtration is supplied
by 2 Emperor 280 filters and one Hagan 660 powerhead w/ sponge. No problems
in the tank and the fish never got overly stressed (other than with a normal
water change). I ended up leaving the Minnows in as dithers as they seemed
to accept the new water conditions well enough.

The tank now, additionally, houses 2 Labidochromis caeruleus and 2
Aulonocara jacobfreibergi eureka. I also left a population of Ramshorn
snails in there as well, which the L. caeruleus seem to be investigating as
a possible food source (or at the least as a potential for late night
entertainment). Some day the minnows will be moved, as soon as I have the
asian tank I'm trying to get set up finished. I am constructing a Net
Max-ish background for the asian tank which is looking pretty good (despite
a couple errors).

No blooms or deaths as I believe the bio-wheels and the sponge maintained
the bio load for the tank during transition. The pH took about 4 days
(according to log) to increase to the now stable level of 8.2. Time length
was probably a significant contributor to success. I have found that
patience is a real virtue in this hobby. Hope that helps.

Marlin

What is wrong with just sucking as much gravel as you feel comfortable
using a big size hose? The only think that I'd be worried is
releasing gases from the substrate into the water. So it makes sense
to remove gravel during a water change.

Putting the new gravel can be done with a big size funnel. That way
it will not freely fall tru the body of water, but it will end up
being released on the bottom. Make sure the tube of the funnel is big
enough to not cause cluttering of the gravel. It requires small
potions of gravel being poured tru the funnel, but that is exactly
what you want anyway.

If you want to use Fluorite you need to clean it very well. Fluorite
is not that hard to rinse to a level where it produces just a slight
hazing of the water. Browse to find out how to rinse it if you want
to use it.

-Nikolay

What type of hose would produce enough suction to suck out the gravel?
Surely not gravel cleaner?

Thanks,

Frank


"nikolay_kraltchev" wrote in message
om...
What is wrong with just sucking as much gravel as you feel comfortable
using a big size hose? The only think that I'd be worried is
releasing gases from the substrate into the water. So it makes sense
to remove gravel during a water change.

Putting the new gravel can be done with a big size funnel. That way
it will not freely fall tru the body of water, but it will end up
being released on the bottom. Make sure the tube of the funnel is big
enough to not cause cluttering of the gravel. It requires small
potions of gravel being poured tru the funnel, but that is exactly
what you want anyway.

If you want to use Fluorite you need to clean it very well. Fluorite
is not that hard to rinse to a level where it produces just a slight
hazing of the water. Browse to find out how to rinse it if you want
to use it.

-Nikolay

"Frank Mamone" wrote in message
. ..
What type of hose would produce enough suction to suck out the gravel?
Surely not gravel cleaner?

Thanks,

Frank

Depends on how high off the floor you have your aquarium. I would guess that
a hose of approximately 1" in diameter, with a 5 gallon bucket resting on
the floor would provide plenty of siphon power to vacuum out a considerable
amount of gravel.

A 1" inside diameter siphon hose about 4.5 vertical feet in length would
have a water column weight close to 1/2 pound. This translates into about
1/2 pound of lift at the bottom of your tank. It would be the gravellest
sucking siphon you've ever seen.

Smaller or larger hose diameters would have a proportional ability to pull
(less weight, but smaller area). It is not the diameter, but the vertical
drop from the tank that makes the difference. I would guess that a smaller
diameter hose might be easier to control than a larger one.

chet

OK. So it must be a straight hose, not a gravel cleaner type.

Thanks


"chet" chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
"Frank Mamone" wrote in message
. ..
What type of hose would produce enough suction to suck out the gravel?
Surely not gravel cleaner?

Thanks,

Frank

Depends on how high off the floor you have your aquarium. I would guess
that
a hose of approximately 1" in diameter, with a 5 gallon bucket resting on
the floor would provide plenty of siphon power to vacuum out a
considerable
amount of gravel.

A 1" inside diameter siphon hose about 4.5 vertical feet in length would
have a water column weight close to 1/2 pound. This translates into about
1/2 pound of lift at the bottom of your tank. It would be the gravellest
sucking siphon you've ever seen.

Smaller or larger hose diameters would have a proportional ability to pull
(less weight, but smaller area). It is not the diameter, but the vertical
drop from the tank that makes the difference. I would guess that a smaller
diameter hose might be easier to control than a larger one.

chet

"Frank Mamone" wrote in message
...
OK. So it must be a straight hose, not a gravel cleaner type.

Thanks

Correct, no gravel cleaning bell. All you use is 1" tubing. You could
connect it to a length of 1" rigid tubing to make it a little easier to
handle than a soft hose like material. If part of it is rigid, you won't
have to reach down into the tank up to your armpits to reach where you want.

Be careful to avoid your fish. 1/2 pound of water suction is a lot and you
could easily kill just about any fish if it were to get pulled up to the end
of the siphon.

chet

Thanks Chet!


"chet" chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...

"Frank Mamone" wrote in message
...
OK. So it must be a straight hose, not a gravel cleaner type.

Thanks

Correct, no gravel cleaning bell. All you use is 1" tubing. You could
connect it to a length of 1" rigid tubing to make it a little easier to
handle than a soft hose like material. If part of it is rigid, you won't
have to reach down into the tank up to your armpits to reach where you
want.

Be careful to avoid your fish. 1/2 pound of water suction is a lot and you
could easily kill just about any fish if it were to get pulled up to the
end
of the siphon.

chet