"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message ...
Troy Bruder wrote:

Anyone got any good remedies for black slime algae covering
everything in my tank?? I keep cleaning it out, and doing massive
water changes, but it still keeps growing!! Arrrgghh!

It might actually be blue-green algae which 1) can be a variety of
colors, and 2) isn't actually an algae, but rather a bacteria.

I've been struggling with an algae that fits the descriotion you gave -
black slime - and I'm giving serious thought to medicating the tank
with a general anti-bacterial agent of some sort.

See blackout method, this will help your plants and take less time, is
certainly the cheapest method and the easiest, fastest etc.

Remove the algae that's there, do a 50% water change, add 1/4 teaspoon
of KNO3 per 80 liters of tank. Clean filter before water change.
Turn off CO2/lights and cover so that no light gets in with trash bag,
towels etc.

Wait three days, remove the bags and turn light/CO2 back on, do
another 50% water change and add the KNO3 back and thereafter 2x a
week.

You do this, you will not have the BGA come back.

But you can try the other methods which are not free nor address the
root cause.
This method has nothing to lose and is 100% effective if you follow
the directions.

If you do a controlled mid day sieta, you will find it does not do
anything. If you have slightly poor.insufficent CO2, this gives a
chance for your unpowered CO2 diffuser set up to catch up since plants
stop taking in CO2 when the lights are off.

The light itself does not cause the algae to go away and the 3
blackout makes algae die fast, not weeks later and also helps to grow
the plants by adding what caused the plants not to grow well(lack of
NO3), which is why you have the algae in the first place.

Regards,
Tom Barr

wrote:

See blackout method, this will help your plants and take less time, is
certainly the cheapest method and the easiest, fastest etc.

I've read lots of comments that the blackout approach has little or no
effect on cyanobacteria, since they aren't dependent on light like
conventional algae. The tank in which I'm having problems isn't planted
(not quite correct - I've tossed a handful of najas into it to try to
out-compete the BGA for nutrients), and I don't do any CO2 injection at
all.

I believe my root causes are that I overfeed (which I'm correcting) and
that the tank is now so overrun with BGA that moderately drastic
measures are needed to bring it under control.

I've already started treating with Myacin. If the five day cycle
doesn't have any effect, I'll give your instructions a whirl.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
...
wrote:

See blackout method, this will help your plants and take less time, is
certainly the cheapest method and the easiest, fastest etc.

I've read lots of comments that the blackout approach has little or no
effect on cyanobacteria, since they aren't dependent on light like
conventional algae.

They are indeed photosynthesising, why are they green??


The tank in which I'm having problems isn't planted
(not quite correct - I've tossed a handful of najas into it to try to
out-compete the BGA for nutrients), and I don't do any CO2 injection at
all.

I believe my root causes are that I overfeed (which I'm correcting) and
that the tank is now so overrun with BGA that moderately drastic
measures are needed to bring it under control.

I've already started treating with Myacin. If the five day cycle
doesn't have any effect, I'll give your instructions a whirl.


You would feel much more accomplished if you defeated the beast without the
aid of antibiotics! Do deep gravel cleanings and clean out your filter
thoroughly, 70-80% waterchange. This will help alot too.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

Happy'Cam'per wrote:

They are indeed photosynthesising, why are they green??

While Cyanobacteria can photosynthesize, that is not it's only source
for nutrients. It is not a plant - it is a bacteria. Unlike 'regular'
algae, it is not dependent upon ammonia related products (including
nitrite and nitrate), and can directly process molecular nitrogen.

Since it isn't dependent upon photosynthesis, a blackout may stunt it
but won't kill it - it can employ other food sources.

You would feel much more accomplished if you defeated the beast
without the aid of antibiotics! Do deep gravel cleanings and clean
out your filter thoroughly, 70-80% waterchange.

I'm not seeking a sense of accomplishment, I'm just trying to get rid
of the BGA. I've done *loads* of gravel cleanings, scrubbing, water
changes, and filter changes. In my experience, as long as the
conditions in the tank support BGA, any cells that escape the cleaning
will spawn the problem over again.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
...
algae, it is not dependent upon ammonia related products (including
nitrite and nitrate), and can directly process molecular nitrogen.

I too thought this but its not true. The type of Cyano that infects OUR fish
tanks does not have the ability to fix Nitrogen, its wrong. Apparently only
Cyano with heterocysts have this ability. The species in our tanks are sans
heterocysts and therefore rely on a Nitrogen source for food.


Since it isn't dependent upon photosynthesis, a blackout may stunt it
but won't kill it - it can employ other food sources.

See above...



I'm not seeking a sense of accomplishment, I'm just trying to get rid
of the BGA. I've done *loads* of gravel cleanings, scrubbing, water
changes, and filter changes. In my experience, as long as the
conditions in the tank support BGA, any cells that escape the cleaning
will spawn the problem over again.

Where do you think it came from in the first place? Once you dose those
anti'B's you're going to kill alll the Cyano cells but the conditions in
your tank will remain the same, they will return once the AB's wear off.

"Happy'Cam'per" wrote in message
...

Where do you think it came from in the first place? Once you dose those
anti'B's you're going to kill alll the Cyano cells but the conditions in
your tank will remain the same, they will return once the AB's wear off.

According to Tom Barr, a common cause of BGA outbreaks are too low
levels of NO3. Do the five day black-out thing, turning off CO2 during that
time, and don't fertilize for those five days either. Then do a large (50%)
water change, and dose 10-15ppm NO3. Keep CO2 in the 20-30ppm range.
Apparently, that puts paid to BGA.

Cheers,

Michi.
--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com

Happy'Cam'per wrote:

Where do you think it came from in the first place? Once you dose
those anti'B's you're going to kill alll the Cyano cells but the
conditions in your tank will remain the same, they will return once
the AB's wear off.

By extension, the same thing will result no matter what course of
action one takes.

--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

wrote:

See blackout method, this will help your plants and take less time, is
certainly the cheapest method and the easiest, fastest etc.

I've read lots of comments that the blackout approach has little or no
effect on cyanobacteria, since they aren't dependent on light like
conventional algae.

Thiose comments are patently incorrect. Nothing personal, but they
are.
It's that simple.

Anyone that does what I suggest(not their own modified version) on BGA
will agree. BGA are(the species we deal with), as are all
algae/plants, totally dependent on light.

Lots of comments that Blackout does not work?
Name one that has done the method I suggested in honesty, and it has
not worked?
Even one?

I've never read one yet. I do get many folks saying it did work on
BGA.
"Thanks! It's 100% Clear and clean! yada yada........."

Everytime.

Some one will say BBA and blackouts don't work, yea, I agree. But it's
100% effective on BGA which is the only real use for this method.

My question to you is have you tried it?
If you do, then you'll know.

I believe my root causes are that I overfeed (which I'm correcting) and
that the tank is now so overrun with BGA that moderately drastic
measures are needed to bring it under control.

It's not due to over feeding.

I've already started treating with Myacin. If the five day cycle
doesn't have any effect, I'll give your instructions a whirl.

Antibiotics do work, my point is not that Myacin does or does not
work, I just offers a better method that takes 3 days and is 100% free
and addresses the long term problem that you have.

Anyone can do it.
You can solve your BGa with that, or Blackout, but anyone that claims
the 3 day blackout I suggest does not work is frankly full of crap.

I've helped countless folks cure their algal issues for the last
decade. Check the APD, APC and other forums.
See this month's TAG, ask around.

Regards,
Tom Barr

wrote:

Thiose comments are patently incorrect. Nothing personal, but they
are. It's that simple.

I appreciate your strong opinion, but I find equally strong opinions in
the other direction. The Krib has discussions on the subject, and I
found numerous mentions via Google as well.


BGA are(the species we deal with), as are all algae/plants, totally
dependent on light.

BGA are not plants, they are bacteria. Though photosynthesis is the
preferred mode of nutrition, it is not the only method. (Palinska,
Katarzyna A; Horgan, William J and Krumbein, Wolfgang, E (May 2002)
Cyanobacteria. In: Nature Encyclopedia of Life Sciences. London: Nature
Publishing Group.)


Antibiotics do work, my point is not that Myacin does or does not
work, I just offers a better method that takes 3 days and is 100%
free and addresses the long term problem that you have.

Well, the ehtromycin is effectively free, since I already had it on
hand. My supply expires in a few months, so it's not as though I'm
likely to lose use of it by employing it against BGA.


Lots of comments that Blackout does not work?
Name one that has done the method I suggested in honesty, and it has
not worked? Even one?
anyone that claims the 3 day blackout I suggest does not work is
frankly full of crap.

Ok, thanks, but I'm REALLY not interested in a holy war. You've clearly
got a lot of emotional investment in the subject, and I'm afraid I
really don't care enough to get into a protracted discussion over it.



--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
news:Ur-dnT5Q_8XQYhrcRVn-

I appreciate your strong opinion, but I find equally strong opinions in
the other direction. The Krib has discussions on the subject, and I
found numerous mentions via Google as well.

How old is that info on the Krib, and how qualified were those ppl making
the statements?



BGA are not plants, they are bacteria. Though photosynthesis is the
preferred mode of nutrition, it is not the only method. (Palinska,
Katarzyna A; Horgan, William J and Krumbein, Wolfgang, E (May 2002)
Cyanobacteria. In: Nature Encyclopedia of Life Sciences. London: Nature
Publishing Group.

The bacteria have a symbiotic relationship with the photosynthesising
systems, if one shuts down, gradually they will die, they cannot function
properly without each other.



Ok, thanks, but I'm REALLY not interested in a holy war. You've clearly
got a lot of emotional investment in the subject, and I'm afraid I
really don't care enough to get into a protracted discussion over it.


Oh Come on Eric, I think its my turn this time to tell you to get a thicker
skin. Tom is offering you perfectly fine advice and you're throwing it back
in his face, he offered to help you out and then you get defensive!!! Use
those antibiotics of yours and I'll bet in 30 days time it'll be back again,
really, I've been through this myself. You also run the risk of openeing up
your fish to parasites who will be keen on taking advantage of the fish's
weakened immune system, antiB's will affect the fish's slime coat and
possibly nuke your filter. Be careful. Be sure to let us know how it goes.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the thick skin!**

Happy'Cam'per wrote:

How old is that info on the Krib, and how qualified were those ppl
making the statements?

Beats me. How qualified is Tom? Again, beats me.


Oh Come on Eric, I think its my turn this time to tell you to get a
thicker skin.

My skin is plenty thick - I'm not in the *least* bit offended or upset
by anything Tom said. I'm simply not interested in pumping a lot of
noise into the newsgroup over something I'm not emotionally invested in.


Tom is offering you perfectly fine advice and you're throwing it back
in his face, he offered to help you out and then you
get defensive!

On the contrary, I've already affirmed that if the antibiotics don't
work out, I will be trying the method he suggested.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
...
wrote:

Thiose comments are patently incorrect. Nothing personal, but they
are. It's that simple.

I appreciate your strong opinion, but I find equally strong opinions in
the other direction. The Krib has discussions on the subject, and I
found numerous mentions via Google as well.





yup, I have seen numerous posters saying the same thing in various plant
forums and also in this newsgroup as I have been lurking. Blackout had no
affects at all. But some people just can't seem to believe that just
because something seemed to work for them does not mean it is written in
stone and works all the time.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

"Margolis" wrote in message
...
"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
yup, I have seen numerous posters saying the same thing in various plant
forums and also in this newsgroup as I have been lurking. Blackout had no
affects at all. But some people just can't seem to believe that just
because something seemed to work for them does not mean it is written in
stone and works all the time.


Tom suggested 'a process to follow'. Surely that cannot be that difficult to
comprehend. Follow the instructions to the tee and I bet my ass it will cure
your BGA problem. It's worked for dozens if not hundreds of folks. Follow
the directions!!!!!!
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

"Happy'Cam'per" wrote in message
...


Tom suggested 'a process to follow'. Surely that cannot be that difficult
to
comprehend. Follow the instructions to the tee and I bet my ass it will
cure
your BGA problem. It's worked for dozens if not hundreds of folks. Follow
the directions!!!!!!
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**



I'm not saying that if you follow his specific instructions step by step
that it won't help at all, but there is never any guarantee. But this
arguing was about blackout specifically, not all of the additional steps
that Tom lined out. It was just his comment that implied that anybody who
said blackout didn't work were lying, and then his suggestion that nobody
ever said that it didn't work that got to me and I think is what also got to
Eric. That sounded like classic denial and like he was calling Eric a liar
for saying that others have said it didn't work for them. Tom has
definately helped a lot of people here, but the tone at the beginning of
that last post just struck the wrong chord. I didn't really mean to offend
anybody, even though I usually end up doing that anyway.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

Margolis wrote:

yup, I have seen numerous posters saying the same thing in various
plant forums and also in this newsgroup as I have been lurking.
Blackout had no affects at all. But some people just can't seem to
believe that just because something seemed to work for them does not
mean it is written in stone and works all the time.

I suspect that part of the problem is the many kinds of cyanobacteria
that exist. Happy Camper alluded to "The type of Cyano that infects OUR
fish tanks", and I have no doubt that he's right for a particular
common species. I don't think it's at all a stretch, though, to
consider that there might be other species with different nutrient
needs affecting fresh water aquaria.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com