I am looking to streamline my seedling operation, mostly for vegetable
growing. At this point I start about 700 seedlings a year. With a small
greenhouse I would transfer all the operations outside the house. I see
that Johnny is offering a 5X8 thing at $295. Any advice is appreciated,
including temperature management, invasion by critters or diseases,
durability, light requirements, etc. I am thinking of placing the GH in
a spot that receives sunlight until 1pm when the leaves are out. I can
place a 55 gallon drum of water in the GH as thermal ballast.

i would also like to switch from peat pots/jiffy/seedling trays and go
the soil block route. I lose too many plant to transplant shock, and
also the trays deteriorate after a while. I see that there are many
blockers on the market. I think I want the 2X2 inches basic block, just
the right size for some of the large greens transplants ( due to many
cabbage moths I prefer my transplants to be big, so they can fend for
themselves), but there are ways to have also 1X1 inch heads. I think I
can make my own soil by mixing my sandy soil with wood ash and compost
(plus sterilization by boiling). Again advice appreciated as to the
best model for me, multiple heads, efficient operations, anything else
I need to know.

"simy1" wrote:

I am looking to streamline my seedling operation, mostly for vegetable
growing. At this point I start about 700 seedlings a year. With a small
greenhouse I would transfer all the operations outside the house. I see
that Johnny is offering a 5X8 thing at $295. Any advice is appreciated,
including temperature management, invasion by critters or diseases,
durability, light requirements, etc. I am thinking of placing the GH in
a spot that receives sunlight until 1pm when the leaves are out. I can
place a 55 gallon drum of water in the GH as thermal ballast.

i would also like to switch from peat pots/jiffy/seedling trays and go
the soil block route. I lose too many plant to transplant shock, and
also the trays deteriorate after a while. I see that there are many
blockers on the market. I think I want the 2X2 inches basic block, just
the right size for some of the large greens transplants ( due to many
cabbage moths I prefer my transplants to be big, so they can fend for
themselves), but there are ways to have also 1X1 inch heads. I think I
can make my own soil by mixing my sandy soil with wood ash and compost
(plus sterilization by boiling). Again advice appreciated as to the
best model for me, multiple heads, efficient operations, anything else
I need to know.

We have two soil blockers, one makes four 2" x 2" blocks in a square
configuration, the other makes four 2" x 2" blocks in a line. They
haven't been used for several years now.
We start almost all of our seeds in paper pots that we make ourselves
from newspaper. I made various sizes of pot makers from different
sized hardwood dowel. I counter-bored one end of the dowel about 1
inch deep with a forstner bit. Use a paper cutter to cut the proper
sizes of newspaper, wrap the paper around the dowel, fold one end into
the counter-bored hole. The fold holds the tube in shape, needs no
tape or glue. Simply slip the tube off, place in a grow tray and fill
with starting medium. When it comes time for transplanting, plant
paper pot and all. Plants never look back. Very economical.
As to recommending a small greenhouse I only have a recommendation
against the one we purchased a couple of years ago from a local
building supply. It is an 8'W x 10'L x 7'H unit made by a company
called Harnois in Quebec, Canada. It is steel framed with a reinforced
plastic cover. The cover was supposedly UV stabilized but, I seriously
doubt it, as it started to disintegrate before the end of the first
season. No satisfaction from the company. I just checked on their web
site and could not find a similar unit so, I presume they discontinued
it. Good idea if they did.

Ross
Southern Ontario, Canada.
New AgCanada Zone 5b
43º17'15" North
80º13'32" West
To email, remove the obvious from my address.

You are asking questions which take whole books to answer. I strongly
suggest you use the gigantic International library you have in our
house, the Internet, and buy some books, read some websites and if you
think using a 55 gallon drum to ballast the heat, think again. You
can possibly do that in zones south of 8b, but any further north this
will fail as an option. In my 200 square foot greenhouse I have to
use added heating with some space heaters when the temps go into the
30s and I live in 8b, Texas. I supplement lining the entire
greenhouse perimeter with milk jugs filled with water, in two layers
deep. I put 39 gallon black garbage cans with covers in each corner
of the greenhouse to hold it down in high wind situations and I use
rainwater in them, they also offset heating costs, but marginally.


Too many other variables to think about for your questions.

On 12 Aug 2005 20:05:37 -0700, "simy1" wrote:

I am looking to streamline my seedling operation, mostly for vegetable
growing. At this point I start about 700 seedlings a year. With a small
greenhouse I would transfer all the operations outside the house. I see
that Johnny is offering a 5X8 thing at $295. Any advice is appreciated,
including temperature management, invasion by critters or diseases,
durability, light requirements, etc. I am thinking of placing the GH in
a spot that receives sunlight until 1pm when the leaves are out. I can
place a 55 gallon drum of water in the GH as thermal ballast.

i would also like to switch from peat pots/jiffy/seedling trays and go
the soil block route. I lose too many plant to transplant shock, and
also the trays deteriorate after a while. I see that there are many
blockers on the market. I think I want the 2X2 inches basic block, just
the right size for some of the large greens transplants ( due to many
cabbage moths I prefer my transplants to be big, so they can fend for
themselves), but there are ways to have also 1X1 inch heads. I think I
can make my own soil by mixing my sandy soil with wood ash and compost
(plus sterilization by boiling). Again advice appreciated as to the
best model for me, multiple heads, efficient operations, anything else
I need to know.

Thanks. I don't think I have the stamina to make 700 paper pots, so a
blocker will have to be bought.
In regards to the GH, I do have some experience about gardening under
cover. In the tunnels, soil is the only ballast and the tunnels buy
approximately 1.5 zones. I do think that a combination of a hot
composting trash can, the oil drum full of water, and a non-touching
second layer of poly will buy me 3 zones in total. Possibly not enough
for melons, but keep in mind that here second-to-last frost is often
one month before last frost. I can transfer things in and out if it is
only one or two nights in the late spring. This year, for example, the
last time it went below 25 was in march. We had one night at 32 in
april. that was that.

"simy1" wrote in news:1123902337.213502.324440
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

I am looking to streamline my seedling operation, mostly for vegetable
growing. At this point I start about 700 seedlings a year. With a small
greenhouse I would transfer all the operations outside the house. I see
that Johnny is offering a 5X8 thing at $295. Any advice is appreciated,
including temperature management, invasion by critters or diseases,
durability, light requirements, etc. I am thinking of placing the GH in
a spot that receives sunlight until 1pm when the leaves are out. I can
place a 55 gallon drum of water in the GH as thermal ballast.

i would also like to switch from peat pots/jiffy/seedling trays and go
the soil block route. I lose too many plant to transplant shock, and
also the trays deteriorate after a while. I see that there are many
blockers on the market. I think I want the 2X2 inches basic block, just
the right size for some of the large greens transplants ( due to many
cabbage moths I prefer my transplants to be big, so they can fend for
themselves), but there are ways to have also 1X1 inch heads. I think I
can make my own soil by mixing my sandy soil with wood ash and compost
(plus sterilization by boiling). Again advice appreciated as to the
best model for me, multiple heads, efficient operations, anything else
I need to know.


This is interesting although I only looked at
http://members.tripod.com/toppertwo/...Small%20bottom

if the soil is cohesive enough not to fall apart when formed into self
standing blocks, wouldn't it be easier to just fill a large tray with
soil and cut air barriers with a knife or pizza cutter? Afterwards you
could further seperate the rows or columns with newspaper if you weren't
confident with just the air barriers.

by soil I mean seed starting medium of course

good question. What I care about, of course, is maximum efficiency in
the whole process. I can now seed a tray in a minute or so (seed being
cheap). I am finding, however, that I spend too much time replanting
things that have bolted or went into transplant shock, in part because
sometimes I use the 288 cells trays, which have little soil attached to
the rootlets. So I am going to go with the larger blocks which is
potentially a lot more work. The things that shock/bolt most often are
cardoon, cukes (and next year I expect watermelons too), peppers, savoy
cabbage, dandelion, and a type of green chicory. Brassicas in general
are tricky, wait too long and they become rootbound, go out too early
and they get shocked. I don't have the time to ferry trays in and out
to harden them (I just time my plantings according to the weather, if
it is sunny I do other yard work, if it is overcast I plant), so I am
hoping that giving them a bigger pot/block will please them enough.

Now the pizza cutter won't work (it is not deep enough, and it will cut
the bottom of the tray, and then you have a mess). I have experimented
with half Scottex paper roll cores for the cucumbers (they are 5''
deep, the cukes won't shock when transplanted), and that looks good.
One possible option is to use those cardboard grids inside wine boxes
(those that keep bottles separated). In fact, if you cut one with a
large paper cutter you will get three such things. But I suspect that
roots will happily grow into the moist cardboard. That is why I wanted
to hear about first hand experience with the blockers. Things like,
when you pick up the block, how do you do it, does it fall apart, etc.

For approx. $295.00 you can put together a solar only "hoop house"
(that's a google term for you) including some nice material from
Northern Greenhouse Sales to cover the hoops. Mine (12x18) uses 20
foot rebar covered with 1/2 inch pvc, and I built 2x4 endwalls and use
1x3 furring strips to secure the skin to (these are horizontal
battens). You'll get a good idea from any pics you see on the web
hoop houses.

You'll get about 5-6 weeks on both ends of the season with this, no
thermal ballast required (free-standing version). For a detailed
treatise on how this all works in a production setting, see Eliot
Colemans books..

Thanks. I already have five hoophouses, two of them walk-in made of
rebar. I was looking for something better insulated, and with shelves
for the seedlings.

simy1 wrote:


That is why I wanted
to hear about first hand experience with the blockers. Things like,
when you pick up the block, how do you do it, does it fall apart, etc.

I've used the 2" blocks for 2 years now, mostly for tomatoes,peppers and
flowers. It's really pretty easy if even I can figure it out. The blocks
don't fall apart if they're the right consistancy (if they're not, add
more water or soil stuff accordingly.) I use a spatula (pancake flipper)
to lift them for transplant, which direct into the soil or a pot is a
breeze.

Kate

On 20 Aug 2005 06:58:15 -0700, "simy1" wrote:

Thanks. I already have five hoophouses, two of them walk-in made of
rebar. I was looking for something better insulated, and with shelves
for the seedlings.

The you need at least 700 dollars, at the very lowest level and that
would be for a very tiny house, about 6x8 made of polycarb, and that's
if you shop around for a very long time. You don't need to start
watermelons in pots, blocks, cell packs or plug trays. But varieties
sold for short season, if that's the problem. Vesey Seed and Johnny
Seeds are two places which sell a great selection for short season
crops.

simy1 wrote:

I am looking to streamline my seedling operation, mostly for vegetable
growing. At this point I start about 700 seedlings a year. With a small
greenhouse I would transfer all the operations outside the house. I see
that Johnny is offering a 5X8 thing at $295. Any advice is appreciated,
including temperature management, invasion by critters or diseases,
durability, light requirements, etc. I am thinking of placing the GH in
a spot that receives sunlight until 1pm when the leaves are out. I can
place a 55 gallon drum of water in the GH as thermal ballast.

I have a 6' x 8' hobby greenhouse. Last year we shut it down in late
Oct because I didn't want to pay the costs to heat it. It was shut down
again Jul & Aug because it was too much of pain to cool it. I'm
planning on starting it up just after Labour Day weekend for fall crops
and things I want extra seeds from. I was lucky with invasion from
critters. Light requirements involve a grow light once the natural
lighting isn't enough. Trust me on this one, a 55 gal drum will take up
way too much room in a 5' x 8' greenhouse. I use jug and other
containers painted black and spred throughout the greenhouse. If you
are anywhere where you get freezing temps forget about it. The space
iss too small and not air tight. I tightened ours up with clear marine
silicone that really helped but still not enough.

i would also like to switch from peat pots/jiffy/seedling trays and go
the soil block route. I lose too many plant to transplant shock, and
also the trays deteriorate after a while. I see that there are many
blockers on the market. I think I want the 2X2 inches basic block, just
the right size for some of the large greens transplants ( due to many
cabbage moths I prefer my transplants to be big, so they can fend for
themselves), but there are ways to have also 1X1 inch heads. I think I
can make my own soil by mixing my sandy soil with wood ash and compost
(plus sterilization by boiling). Again advice appreciated as to the
best model for me, multiple heads, efficient operations, anything else
I need to know.


I use a potting mixture and the 9 packs. To prevent damping off use a
chamomile tea mixture sprayed on the seedlings.