I have about a dozen "semi-dwarf" fruit trees, each planted 12 feet apart.
Does anyone have experience with such trees? Did I plant them too close
together?

Also, when initially planting them as bare root trees, how severely should
they be pruned? And once they start to bud out, is it too late to prune
them?

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:27:51 -0800, "Zootal" nousenetspam at dead ice
dot us wrote:

I have about a dozen "semi-dwarf" fruit trees, each planted 12 feet apart.
Does anyone have experience with such trees? Did I plant them too close
together?

Also, when initially planting them as bare root trees, how severely should
they be pruned? And once they start to bud out, is it too late to prune
them?


This ought to help out. You may want to do a search on fruit trees in
your state. This should be consistent across most of North America:

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/ag30.html

By this, the trees should be 20 to 25 feet apart. First year is
recommended to prune to three sprigs.

Thunder

"Rolling Thunder" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:27:51 -0800, "Zootal" nousenetspam at dead ice
dot us wrote:

I have about a dozen "semi-dwarf" fruit trees, each planted 12 feet apart.
Does anyone have experience with such trees? Did I plant them too close
together?

Also, when initially planting them as bare root trees, how severely should
they be pruned? And once they start to bud out, is it too late to prune
them?


This ought to help out. You may want to do a search on fruit trees in
your state. This should be consistent across most of North America:

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/ag30.html

By this, the trees should be 20 to 25 feet apart. First year is
recommended to prune to three sprigs.

Thunder

An interesting article, but it didn't specifically address semi-dwarf trees
(are peach trees assumed to be semi-dwarfs?)

In article , "Zootal"
nousenetspam at dead ice dot us says...
I have about a dozen "semi-dwarf" fruit trees, each planted 12 feet apart.
Does anyone have experience with such trees? Did I plant them too close
together?

Also, when initially planting them as bare root trees, how severely should
they be pruned? And once they start to bud out, is it too late to prune
them?




http://www.davewilson.com/homegrown/BOC_what-is.html

http://www.davewilson.com/homegrown/hidensity.html

Bill
--
Gmail and Google Groups. This century's answer to AOL and WebTV.

I think this Dave Wilson Nursury is way out of line with their recommendations.
Dwarfing rootstock IS the best way to control tree size. Excessive pruning as
he
suggests results in a butchered tree with no shape and much retarded fruit
production.

Sherwin D.

Bill wrote:

In article , "Zootal"
nousenetspam at dead ice dot us says...
I have about a dozen "semi-dwarf" fruit trees, each planted 12 feet apart.
Does anyone have experience with such trees? Did I plant them too close
together?

Also, when initially planting them as bare root trees, how severely should
they be pruned? And once they start to bud out, is it too late to prune
them?




http://www.davewilson.com/homegrown/BOC_what-is.html

http://www.davewilson.com/homegrown/hidensity.html

Bill
--
Gmail and Google Groups. This century's answer to AOL and WebTV.

In article , says...
I think this Dave Wilson Nursury is way out of line with their recommendations.
Dwarfing rootstock IS the best way to control tree size. Excessive pruning as
he
suggests results in a butchered tree with no shape and much retarded fruit
production.

Sherwin D.


I'm sure your opinion has him worried to death. Then again, he's running a
succesful nursery, and your just running your mouth.

Bill
--
Gmail and Google Groups. This century's answer to AOL and WebTV.

Just because he's running a nursery, and has a busy webpage, DOES NOT
mean he know what is "right". I've read a lot of bad suggestions on
DAVE'S page. Sounds like Bill is running his mouth too. (so am I ...)
It means he's good at marketing.

Severly pruning a tree, repeatedly, will lower the production, and be
LOTS of extra work.

bahB

In article om,
says...
Just because he's running a nursery, and has a busy webpage, DOES NOT
mean he know what is "right".

OTOH, if he gave out bad infirmation, he probably not stay in business
long.

I've read a lot of bad suggestions on
DAVE'S page.

In your opinion.

Sounds like Bill is running his mouth too.

Not yet.

(so am I ...}
It means he's good at marketing.

Severly pruning a tree, repeatedly, will lower the production,

Yes,

and be
LOTS of extra work.

No.


bahB


Perhaps you should reread the article again, It's for back yard gardening,
not farming.

Bill
--
Gmail and Google Groups. This century's answer to AOL and WebTV.

Plus it ruins the looks of trees, like apples. Peaches may be an exception
to a heavy
initial pruning of the leader to get the tree to sprawl more to aid in
fruit yield.

Sherwin

" wrote:

Just because he's running a nursery, and has a busy webpage, DOES NOT
mean he know what is "right". I've read a lot of bad suggestions on
DAVE'S page. Sounds like Bill is running his mouth too. (so am I ...)
It means he's good at marketing.

Severly pruning a tree, repeatedly, will lower the production, and be
LOTS of extra work.

bahB

" wrote in
ps.com:

Just because he's running a nursery, and has a busy
webpage, DOES NOT mean he know what is "right". I've read
a lot of bad suggestions on DAVE'S page. Sounds like Bill
is running his mouth too. (so am I ...)
It means he's good at marketing.

Severly pruning a tree, repeatedly, will lower the
production, and be LOTS of extra work.

if that were true, espailering wouldn't work... and
espailered fruit trees have been around for centuries because
it *does* work. no, you can't go pruning off all the fruiting
branches, but severe pruning as on that page will allow
production in small areas. yes, it's a lot of work learning
the proper techniques, but if tou want an orchard & only
*have* a tiny yard, it *will* work. you learn what you need to
get the results you want. isn't that how most things in life
work?
lee
--
war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
1984-George Orwell

And I'm sure that I'm entitled to state my opinion. The fact that he is in business
is
no endorsement that he is giving out good advice. His theories on dwarfing trees is
way out of line with common knowledge in universities and research stations. Just
check the web on how much research is put into dwarf rootstocks and how many
huge numbers of them are being used by fruit growers throughout the world. I have
been growing dwarf fruit trees for almost 20 years and have not seen any of the
problems he claims are inherent in their nature. It's true a dwarf tree may only
live to
be twenty years or more, whereas a standard tree can live much longer. What he fails
to mention is that standard trees are much more difficult to maintain and harvest,
and take longer to yield their first crop. By the way, what is your expertise in
these
matters or are you just defending the poor guy?

Sherwin



Bill wrote:

In article , says...
I think this Dave Wilson Nursury is way out of line with their recommendations.
Dwarfing rootstock IS the best way to control tree size. Excessive pruning as
he
suggests results in a butchered tree with no shape and much retarded fruit
production.

Sherwin D.


I'm sure your opinion has him worried to death. Then again, he's running a
succesful nursery, and your just running your mouth.

Bill
--
Gmail and Google Groups. This century's answer to AOL and WebTV.

In article , says...
And I'm sure that I'm entitled to state my opinion. The fact that he is in business
is
no endorsement that he is giving out good advice. His theories on dwarfing trees is
way out of line with common knowledge in universities and research stations. Just
check the web on how much research is put into dwarf rootstocks and how many
huge numbers of them are being used by fruit growers throughout the world. I have
been growing dwarf fruit trees for almost 20 years and have not seen any of the
problems he claims are inherent in their nature. It's true a dwarf tree may only
live to
be twenty years or more, whereas a standard tree can live much longer. What he fails
to mention is that standard trees are much more difficult to maintain and harvest,
and take longer to yield their first crop. By the way, what is your expertise in
these
matters or are you just defending the poor guy?

Sherwin




Same as yours. I have grown and am presently growing semidwarf and dwarf
fruit trees. I've tried his method; it works. Do the trees compete for
resources? Yes. Does pruning them as he suggests keep there production down?
Yes. The whole Idea is to keep the trees small and managable with a
manageable amount of fruit. If you have a small yard and want a variety of
fruit without having to throw or give most of away because you can't use it
this is one way to go. If you've got a couple of acres, by all means, spread
them out. Just be prepared for all the fruit you're going to get.

The OP was asking if he had enough spacing for his trees. I posted a
reference to show that trees can be planted closer than the spacing he had
used. Merely that. Last I looked, universities and research stations were
much more interested in helping farmers and agribusiness that they were the
backyard gardener. You probably don't think much of square foot gardening
either, do you?


Bill
--
Gmail and Google Groups. This century's answer to AOL and WebTV.

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:27:51 -0800, "Zootal" nousenetspam at dead ice
dot us wrote:

I have about a dozen "semi-dwarf" fruit trees, each planted 12 feet apart.
Does anyone have experience with such trees? Did I plant them too close
together?

Also, when initially planting them as bare root trees, how severely should
they be pruned? And once they start to bud out, is it too late to prune
them?


Zootal, I wish I knew what kind of fruit tree you are talking about.
I have done some experimenting with dwarf trees. I have 8, seven year
old dwarf peach trees that I set out 6 ft apart and pruned them in
several configurations over the years. I probably average about 7 to
10 bushels of peaches per year total.

The concept behind this is spray and water conservation. I am also
experimenting with growing dwarf apple trees on a wire(like grapes).

On your pruning, it too depends on what you have. If it is a peach,
it should have been headed back at time of setting out. If it is
apple, no, second or third year light pruning to control size and
shape of tree.- -you must know what wood produces fruit. For example,
a peach only produces fruit on wood that is grown last year. So in
February (when I prune) don't cut off all the new wood or you won't
have a fruit crop.

I know this may well be contradicted by some of the more "well read"
individuals. This is only my opinion based on experience, not some
book. I pruned my first peach tree around 1946 as I recall, and have
pruned several since.

Have a good day--The Oldtimer.

Don't worry 'old timer'. You are right on target about pruning retarding fruit
production. Peach trees generally don't get too large, even as seedlings, but
cutting
down the tops to encourage spreading of branches seems to work well for that
kind
of fruit, certainly not apples. I'm not sure what kind of rootstock you have,
but most
peach trees being sold are only slightly dwarfing. The really stronger
dwarfing peach
rootstocks seem to still be somewhat experimental, and many of them have
problems
such as poor cold tolerance or bad compatibility in the graft union. I'm still
waiting
for them to develop a suitable dwarfing rootstock that will take a peach tree
significantly smaller than a standard seedling.

Sherwin D.

Rogerx wrote:

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:27:51 -0800, "Zootal" nousenetspam at dead ice
dot us wrote:

I have about a dozen "semi-dwarf" fruit trees, each planted 12 feet apart.
Does anyone have experience with such trees? Did I plant them too close
together?

Also, when initially planting them as bare root trees, how severely should
they be pruned? And once they start to bud out, is it too late to prune
them?


Zootal, I wish I knew what kind of fruit tree you are talking about.
I have done some experimenting with dwarf trees. I have 8, seven year
old dwarf peach trees that I set out 6 ft apart and pruned them in
several configurations over the years. I probably average about 7 to
10 bushels of peaches per year total.

The concept behind this is spray and water conservation. I am also
experimenting with growing dwarf apple trees on a wire(like grapes).

On your pruning, it too depends on what you have. If it is a peach,
it should have been headed back at time of setting out. If it is
apple, no, second or third year light pruning to control size and
shape of tree.- -you must know what wood produces fruit. For example,
a peach only produces fruit on wood that is grown last year. So in
February (when I prune) don't cut off all the new wood or you won't
have a fruit crop.

I know this may well be contradicted by some of the more "well read"
individuals. This is only my opinion based on experience, not some
book. I pruned my first peach tree around 1946 as I recall, and have
pruned several since.

Have a good day--The Oldtimer.

Seems like you have planted them at about the minimum spacing. There are
many variations of size of dwarf trees depending on the exact type of
rootstock
and the vigor of the scion. You may have to do some pruning, if they start to

bump into each other.

No need to do any pruning while they are still young, assuming they were
initially
trimmed by the supplier. They should have a distinct leader branch, so if
this is
not evident, I would select that branch and trim off any competing branches.
No need to trim off the smaller branches, unless they are too close to the
graft.

Most fruit sets on the new growth of branches, so excessive trimming of
them will effectively eliminate their giving fruit for the next season. It is

recommended to remove any fruit that appear the first season of production,
assuming they only number a handful. This will encourage the young tree to
put
it's energy into the roots to give a stronger tree. You can then harvest
fruit in
successive seasons. In general, it is better to do your pruning when the tree
is
dormant, although one can do some lighter pruning in the summer.

Sherwin D.
Zootal wrote:

I have about a dozen "semi-dwarf" fruit trees, each planted 12 feet apart.
Does anyone have experience with such trees? Did I plant them too close
together?

Also, when initially planting them as bare root trees, how severely should
they be pruned? And once they start to bud out, is it too late to prune
them?