I am tremendously amused. You remarks were most entertaining. Thank you.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Your observations are at best the products of delusion. Please accept that
I
mean this in a good way. You have no idea what you saw. The only possible
exception to what I've said is that you are home all day long, and are
able
to hose down the lawn's surface every couple of hours. Aside from that
possibility, or living in a climate where it rains lightly and endlessly
every day, there are no other explanations.







"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
Think about the purpose of using peat moss this way. It is not to
improve
the soil. It is to help establish fresh additional grass in an existing
sparse lawn that will not be dug up. The purpose of the peat moss is
to
retain moisture as the seeds germinate and develop.

My evidence is my own observation that peat moss remains moist much
longer
than the surface of my lawn. Thus a lawn with peat moss on top will
need
less frequent watering, perhaps twice a day to keep the grass seed moist
instead of every hour during midday. It will also shield the seeds from
the
direct sunlight, which could dry them out no matter what they're on.

The claims of you and your authorities that mixing peat moss into soil
is
the best way to use it to improve the soil, and just leaving it on top
is,
at best, useless, seem undeniable. But that is not the goal here or the
situation. The moss will be kept moist until the grass is established.
The
fact that peat moss is useful when dug in does not prevent it from being
useful in other ways too.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Question: In 30+ years of gardening, I've have never seen any advice
indicating that peat moss did NOT need to be mixed into soil. Never.
Not
once, and this includes gardening veterans like James Crockett, Alan
Lacy,
Henry Mitchell, Fred McGourty, Russell Page, Christopher Lloyd, etc.
They
were gardening for 30-50 years before I even began. None of them
suggest
that it's a good idea to just sprinkle peat moss on top of soil.

What evidence do you have that suddenly makes this a good idea?


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
I see two significant advantages to using peat as described -- it
reduces
the frequency of waterings that are needed and surrounds the seeds
and
provides them with a constant level of humidity. It sounds like a
good
idea
to me.


And you could have had the same results with less water if you
didn't
have to provide enough water to both keep the peat hydrated and have
enough left over for the seeds to germinate. You wasted money on the
peat, and then you wasted money by having to water more.

Unless you mix the peat into the soil, there is zero advantage to
using
it. In fact, if you just spread it on top, it's a waste. A waste of
peat. A waste of water. And a waste of effort. The peat has no
nutriative value, and if it's not mixed in the soil, it does nothing
to
help the soil at all.


--
Warren H.

Good! When you can explain your theories, and why they fly in the face of
virtually ALL other professional recommendations, including those on the
peat moss packages, I'll be happy to change my opinion. But, all you've done
is said "I think this should work and the facts are of no important". You
may as well be telling someone to stick a gun in his mouth and pull the
trigger because you think the history of bullet wounds is nonsense.


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
I am tremendously amused. You remarks were most entertaining. Thank you.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Your observations are at best the products of delusion. Please accept
that
I
mean this in a good way. You have no idea what you saw. The only possible
exception to what I've said is that you are home all day long, and are
able
to hose down the lawn's surface every couple of hours. Aside from that
possibility, or living in a climate where it rains lightly and endlessly
every day, there are no other explanations.







"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
Think about the purpose of using peat moss this way. It is not to
improve
the soil. It is to help establish fresh additional grass in an
existing
sparse lawn that will not be dug up. The purpose of the peat moss is
to
retain moisture as the seeds germinate and develop.

My evidence is my own observation that peat moss remains moist much
longer
than the surface of my lawn. Thus a lawn with peat moss on top will
need
less frequent watering, perhaps twice a day to keep the grass seed
moist
instead of every hour during midday. It will also shield the seeds
from
the
direct sunlight, which could dry them out no matter what they're on.

The claims of you and your authorities that mixing peat moss into soil
is
the best way to use it to improve the soil, and just leaving it on top
is,
at best, useless, seem undeniable. But that is not the goal here or
the
situation. The moss will be kept moist until the grass is established.
The
fact that peat moss is useful when dug in does not prevent it from
being
useful in other ways too.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Question: In 30+ years of gardening, I've have never seen any advice
indicating that peat moss did NOT need to be mixed into soil. Never.
Not
once, and this includes gardening veterans like James Crockett, Alan
Lacy,
Henry Mitchell, Fred McGourty, Russell Page, Christopher Lloyd, etc.
They
were gardening for 30-50 years before I even began. None of them
suggest
that it's a good idea to just sprinkle peat moss on top of soil.

What evidence do you have that suddenly makes this a good idea?


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
I see two significant advantages to using peat as described -- it
reduces
the frequency of waterings that are needed and surrounds the seeds
and
provides them with a constant level of humidity. It sounds like a
good
idea
to me.


And you could have had the same results with less water if you
didn't
have to provide enough water to both keep the peat hydrated and
have
enough left over for the seeds to germinate. You wasted money on
the
peat, and then you wasted money by having to water more.

Unless you mix the peat into the soil, there is zero advantage to
using
it. In fact, if you just spread it on top, it's a waste. A waste of
peat. A waste of water. And a waste of effort. The peat has no
nutriative value, and if it's not mixed in the soil, it does
nothing
to
help the soil at all.


--
Warren H.

You still persist in your error in logic.

You have not referred to any professional recommendation or evidence that
says the method does not work. The professional recommendations to which
you refer say to use peat moss another way, which is not applicable here.
That does not mean it will not work in the way that is suggested here.

That peat moss is recommended for method B and works in method B does not
mean that it does not work in method A.

I notice that you ignored my previous posting to a garden site that
recommended applying peat moss on top of a lawn when reseeding. Here are 3
more. They were easily found.

http://www.hudginsgardencenter.com/h...care_guide.htm

http://extras.berkshireeagle.com/neb...ault.asp?id=ar
ticle18

http://www.skynursery.com/doc/garden_lawn_tips.htm

My other point is that, yes, I wrote, "I think this should work". I am
disagreeing with your opinion. I did not present my opinion as accepted
truth. You, on the other hand, have presented as known fact what is only
your view on the situation.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Good! When you can explain your theories, and why they fly in the face of
virtually ALL other professional recommendations, including those on the
peat moss packages, I'll be happy to change my opinion. But, all you've
done
is said "I think this should work and the facts are of no important". You
may as well be telling someone to stick a gun in his mouth and pull the
trigger because you think the history of bullet wounds is nonsense.


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
I am tremendously amused. You remarks were most entertaining. Thank you.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Your observations are at best the products of delusion. Please accept
that
I
mean this in a good way. You have no idea what you saw. The only
possible
exception to what I've said is that you are home all day long, and are
able
to hose down the lawn's surface every couple of hours. Aside from that
possibility, or living in a climate where it rains lightly and
endlessly
every day, there are no other explanations.







"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
Think about the purpose of using peat moss this way. It is not to
improve
the soil. It is to help establish fresh additional grass in an
existing
sparse lawn that will not be dug up. The purpose of the peat moss
is
to
retain moisture as the seeds germinate and develop.

My evidence is my own observation that peat moss remains moist much
longer
than the surface of my lawn. Thus a lawn with peat moss on top will
need
less frequent watering, perhaps twice a day to keep the grass seed
moist
instead of every hour during midday. It will also shield the seeds
from
the
direct sunlight, which could dry them out no matter what they're on.

The claims of you and your authorities that mixing peat moss into
soil
is
the best way to use it to improve the soil, and just leaving it on
top
is,
at best, useless, seem undeniable. But that is not the goal here or
the
situation. The moss will be kept moist until the grass is
established.
The
fact that peat moss is useful when dug in does not prevent it from
being
useful in other ways too.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Question: In 30+ years of gardening, I've have never seen any advice
indicating that peat moss did NOT need to be mixed into soil. Never.
Not
once, and this includes gardening veterans like James Crockett, Alan
Lacy,
Henry Mitchell, Fred McGourty, Russell Page, Christopher Lloyd, etc.
They
were gardening for 30-50 years before I even began. None of them
suggest
that it's a good idea to just sprinkle peat moss on top of soil.

What evidence do you have that suddenly makes this a good idea?


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
I see two significant advantages to using peat as described -- it
reduces
the frequency of waterings that are needed and surrounds the
seeds
and
provides them with a constant level of humidity. It sounds like a
good
idea
to me.


And you could have had the same results with less water if you
didn't
have to provide enough water to both keep the peat hydrated and
have
enough left over for the seeds to germinate. You wasted money on
the
peat, and then you wasted money by having to water more.

Unless you mix the peat into the soil, there is zero advantage to
using
it. In fact, if you just spread it on top, it's a waste. A waste
of
peat. A waste of water. And a waste of effort. The peat has no
nutriative value, and if it's not mixed in the soil, it does
nothing
to
help the soil at all.


--
Warren H.

I don't care WHAT they say. Experience shows otherwise. It *might* work if
sprinkled on top of the seed, but only if you're there to keep it moist.
This would eliminate its functionality for anyone who has to go to work for
8 hours on a sunny day.


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
You still persist in your error in logic.

You have not referred to any professional recommendation or evidence that
says the method does not work. The professional recommendations to which
you refer say to use peat moss another way, which is not applicable here.
That does not mean it will not work in the way that is suggested here.

That peat moss is recommended for method B and works in method B does not
mean that it does not work in method A.

I notice that you ignored my previous posting to a garden site that
recommended applying peat moss on top of a lawn when reseeding. Here are
3
more. They were easily found.

http://www.hudginsgardencenter.com/h...care_guide.htm

http://extras.berkshireeagle.com/neb...ault.asp?id=ar
ticle18

http://www.skynursery.com/doc/garden_lawn_tips.htm

My other point is that, yes, I wrote, "I think this should work". I am
disagreeing with your opinion. I did not present my opinion as accepted
truth. You, on the other hand, have presented as known fact what is only
your view on the situation.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Good! When you can explain your theories, and why they fly in the face of
virtually ALL other professional recommendations, including those on the
peat moss packages, I'll be happy to change my opinion. But, all you've
done
is said "I think this should work and the facts are of no important". You
may as well be telling someone to stick a gun in his mouth and pull the
trigger because you think the history of bullet wounds is nonsense.


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
I am tremendously amused. You remarks were most entertaining. Thank
you.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Your observations are at best the products of delusion. Please accept
that
I
mean this in a good way. You have no idea what you saw. The only
possible
exception to what I've said is that you are home all day long, and are
able
to hose down the lawn's surface every couple of hours. Aside from that
possibility, or living in a climate where it rains lightly and
endlessly
every day, there are no other explanations.







"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
Think about the purpose of using peat moss this way. It is not to
improve
the soil. It is to help establish fresh additional grass in an
existing
sparse lawn that will not be dug up. The purpose of the peat moss
is
to
retain moisture as the seeds germinate and develop.

My evidence is my own observation that peat moss remains moist much
longer
than the surface of my lawn. Thus a lawn with peat moss on top will
need
less frequent watering, perhaps twice a day to keep the grass seed
moist
instead of every hour during midday. It will also shield the seeds
from
the
direct sunlight, which could dry them out no matter what they're on.

The claims of you and your authorities that mixing peat moss into
soil
is
the best way to use it to improve the soil, and just leaving it on
top
is,
at best, useless, seem undeniable. But that is not the goal here or
the
situation. The moss will be kept moist until the grass is
established.
The
fact that peat moss is useful when dug in does not prevent it from
being
useful in other ways too.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Question: In 30+ years of gardening, I've have never seen any
advice
indicating that peat moss did NOT need to be mixed into soil.
Never.
Not
once, and this includes gardening veterans like James Crockett,
Alan
Lacy,
Henry Mitchell, Fred McGourty, Russell Page, Christopher Lloyd,
etc.
They
were gardening for 30-50 years before I even began. None of them
suggest
that it's a good idea to just sprinkle peat moss on top of soil.

What evidence do you have that suddenly makes this a good idea?


"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
I see two significant advantages to using peat as described -- it
reduces
the frequency of waterings that are needed and surrounds the
seeds
and
provides them with a constant level of humidity. It sounds like
a
good
idea
to me.


And you could have had the same results with less water if you
didn't
have to provide enough water to both keep the peat hydrated and
have
enough left over for the seeds to germinate. You wasted money on
the
peat, and then you wasted money by having to water more.

Unless you mix the peat into the soil, there is zero advantage
to
using
it. In fact, if you just spread it on top, it's a waste. A waste
of
peat. A waste of water. And a waste of effort. The peat has no
nutriative value, and if it's not mixed in the soil, it does
nothing
to
help the soil at all.


--
Warren H.

"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
You still persist in your error in logic.

You have not referred to any professional recommendation or evidence that
says the method does not work. The professional recommendations to which
you refer say to use peat moss another way, which is not applicable here.
That does not mean it will not work in the way that is suggested here.

That peat moss is recommended for method B and works in method B does not
mean that it does not work in method A.

I notice that you ignored my previous posting to a garden site that
recommended applying peat moss on top of a lawn when reseeding. Here are
3
more. They were easily found.

http://www.hudginsgardencenter.com/h...care_guide.htm


http://extras.berkshireeagle.com/neb...ault.asp?id=ar
ticle18

http://www.skynursery.com/doc/garden_lawn_tips.htm

My other point is that, yes, I wrote, "I think this should work". I am
disagreeing with your opinion. I did not present my opinion as accepted
truth. You, on the other hand, have presented as known fact what is only
your view on the situation.

Andrew. A point of clarification here. The websites you referred to, one
talked about topdressing existing lawns with peat moss by raking it into the
existing turf and the other sugested covering grass seed with peat moss.
The first suggestion is, as far as I can see, about conditioning your soil
and adding organic material using a no till method.
The latter does not explain how to moss is to be applied.
The original post was about shredding and blowning peat moss on to newly
laid grass seed.

The unanswered question for me is the blowing bit. I cannot see bits of peat
moss fluff doing much. Getting it in to the right areas at the right
thickness must require raking. Bits of peat moss lying over a soil must be
subject to wind blow. What happens when the seed starts to germinate and
they have a nice layer of mulch stopping them getting to the sun.

Of interest value only, your opinion please.

rob
(rest of discussion snipped)

http://www.hudginsgardencenter.com/h...care_guide.htm

http://extras.berkshireeagle.com/neb...ault.asp?id=ar
ticle18
http://www.skynursery.com/doc/garden_lawn_tips.htm

Andrew. A point of clarification here. The websites you referred to, one
talked about topdressing existing lawns with peat moss by raking it into
the
existing turf and the other sugested covering grass seed with peat moss.
The first suggestion is, as far as I can see, about conditioning your soil
and adding organic material using a no till method.
The latter does not explain how to moss is to be applied.
The original post was about shredding and blowning peat moss on to newly
laid grass seed.

No, actually every web site refers to putting peat moss on top of seed when
reseeding a lawn. I will quote one or two sentences from each of the web
sites:

"After applying lime, fertilizer, and seed to your lawn, we recommend you
cover the newly seeded areas with a light covering of peat moss or straw.
Peat moss is the most desirable and is excellent for average size areas."

"If your lawn is sparse, mix in seed with the peat moss when you're
top-dressing, and spread it with a rake."

"Apply seed, lime, and starter fertilizer, cover with peat moss or Grass
Mulch and thoroughly water."

The unanswered question for me is the blowing bit. I cannot see bits of
peat
moss fluff doing much. Getting it in to the right areas at the right
thickness must require raking. Bits of peat moss lying over a soil must be
subject to wind blow. What happens when the seed starts to germinate and
they have a nice layer of mulch stopping them getting to the sun.

Of interest value only, your opinion please.

rob
(rest of discussion snipped)

I don't know how blowing can be done. If the peat moss is dry it will blow
all over, better wear a dust mask for sure. If it is moist, it's harder to
blow. I never regarded the blowing as basic to the points I was disagreeing
with.

After the seed germinates the young blade will have to push its way through
a layer of moist peat moss. I don't see this as a problem; after all, peat
moss is a major component of most seed starter mixes.

I imagine the use of sphagnum peat over a newly seeded lawn is meant to help
hold moisture while the seed germinates. Just supposing, tho, as I didn't
see the original post.

Suzy, Wisconsin, Zone 5


"George.com" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
You still persist in your error in logic.

You have not referred to any professional recommendation or evidence that
says the method does not work. The professional recommendations to which
you refer say to use peat moss another way, which is not applicable here.
That does not mean it will not work in the way that is suggested here.

That peat moss is recommended for method B and works in method B does not
mean that it does not work in method A.

I notice that you ignored my previous posting to a garden site that
recommended applying peat moss on top of a lawn when reseeding. Here are
3
more. They were easily found.

http://www.hudginsgardencenter.com/h...care_guide.htm


http://extras.berkshireeagle.com/neb...ault.asp?id=ar
ticle18

http://www.skynursery.com/doc/garden_lawn_tips.htm

My other point is that, yes, I wrote, "I think this should work". I am
disagreeing with your opinion. I did not present my opinion as accepted
truth. You, on the other hand, have presented as known fact what is only
your view on the situation.

Andrew. A point of clarification here. The websites you referred to, one
talked about topdressing existing lawns with peat moss by raking it into
the
existing turf and the other sugested covering grass seed with peat moss.
The first suggestion is, as far as I can see, about conditioning your soil
and adding organic material using a no till method.
The latter does not explain how to moss is to be applied.
The original post was about shredding and blowning peat moss on to newly
laid grass seed.

The unanswered question for me is the blowing bit. I cannot see bits of
peat
moss fluff doing much. Getting it in to the right areas at the right
thickness must require raking. Bits of peat moss lying over a soil must be
subject to wind blow. What happens when the seed starts to germinate and
they have a nice layer of mulch stopping them getting to the sun.

Of interest value only, your opinion please.

rob
(rest of discussion snipped)

"Plant Info" wrote in message
...
I imagine the use of sphagnum peat over a newly seeded lawn is meant to
help
hold moisture while the seed germinates. Just supposing, tho, as I didn't
see the original post.

Suzy, Wisconsin, Zone 5

yes, that was the idea. It may work however I think there are easier and
more sure fire ways of going about it. Seems work and a waste of good peat
moss to my mind.

rob

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
You still persist in your error in logic.

You have not referred to any professional recommendation or evidence
that
says the method does not work. The professional recommendations to
which
you refer say to use peat moss another way, which is not applicable
here.
That does not mean it will not work in the way that is suggested here.

That peat moss is recommended for method B and works in method B does
not
mean that it does not work in method A.

I notice that you ignored my previous posting to a garden site that
recommended applying peat moss on top of a lawn when reseeding. Here
are
3
more. They were easily found.

http://www.hudginsgardencenter.com/h...care_guide.htm



http://extras.berkshireeagle.com/neb...ault.asp?id=ar
ticle18

http://www.skynursery.com/doc/garden_lawn_tips.htm

My other point is that, yes, I wrote, "I think this should work". I am
disagreeing with your opinion. I did not present my opinion as
accepted
truth. You, on the other hand, have presented as known fact what is
only
your view on the situation.

Andrew. A point of clarification here. The websites you referred to, one
talked about topdressing existing lawns with peat moss by raking it into
the
existing turf and the other sugested covering grass seed with peat moss.
The first suggestion is, as far as I can see, about conditioning your
soil
and adding organic material using a no till method.
The latter does not explain how to moss is to be applied.
The original post was about shredding and blowning peat moss on to newly
laid grass seed.

The unanswered question for me is the blowing bit. I cannot see bits of
peat
moss fluff doing much. Getting it in to the right areas at the right
thickness must require raking. Bits of peat moss lying over a soil must
be
subject to wind blow. What happens when the seed starts to germinate and
they have a nice layer of mulch stopping them getting to the sun.

Of interest value only, your opinion please.

rob
(rest of discussion snipped)