It would sure help if you looked at dates.


On 7 Mar 2003 07:06:12 -0800, (Jeffrey Barker) wrote:

I'm not trying to pick on any single person, so please ignore the fact
that I have to single out one person to reply to.

Christ, you guys. This is the GARDENING newsgroup. If we want to
discuss what a frigging pederast Jackson is, we can do it ANYWHERE.

Subject: Bees in your Garden?

Jesus. Really. When I want to discuss sushi I go to afs. Mexican
cooking, afmc. Gardening, rg. I'm not trying to be a nazi, but
really. This is not only a hijack of this thread, but of the whole
board. Yeah, OT happens, but jesus christ.

Sorry. Sort of.

Jeffrey


(paghat) wrote in message ...
In article , Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from animaux contains these words:

How do you know she was seeking anything? You
can't make such claims without knowing HER or at least something about
her...which I believe you do not.

I saw her interview with Bashir, which was broadcast on the night of
one of her husband's biggest public engagements. She appeared on
primetime TV to give a detailed account of his adultery and her own. She
said she wanted to tell her version of what had gone on in their
marriage, and she then told it to as many complete strangers as
possible. That sounds like a definition of seeking maximum publicity to
me.

I'm certainly not saying MJ is "all there" or his discretion is
sane, but I still and always will believe he is not a pedophile. He's
"A-sexual" if anything.

From your comments above, should we assume your opinion is based on
personal intimacy with MJ ? Or have you had yet another accident in the
logic department?

Janet

First, Jackson is AT LEAST a pedophile, the only question is whether he's
also a pedarast who acts on his pedophilia. We have sworn court testimony
he is also a pedarast.

I have no trouble admitting that Bashir manipulated Jackson by pretending
to admire him & drawing him out by playing to Jackson's ego. Only in the
last of the series of interviews was Bashir totally honest admitting he
was troubled by Jackson's relationships with children. Bashir might from
the start have just said outright, "Your locking yourself alone in a room
with little boys & playing with them in your bed makes you a menace to
these children, even IF there MIGHT be a DISTANT but rather improbable
chance that you do nothjing more than lock yourself in a room with them to
play in your bed". But in that case, instead of revealing his unwholesome
worldview about the excellence & propriety of sleeping with other peoples'
little boys, he'd've instead just told Bashir to leave, & we wouldn't have
heard in Jackson's own voice that his behavior is AT BEST inappropriate, &
his idea of 'love' includes purchasing bedroom privileges with young boys.


That the parents may find Jackson graciously friendly with his largess
over all this makes those parents panderers. This kind of child pandering
is very common. Parents are given money as no-strings "gifts" by the
"family friend" who is then -- no connection to having been paid, of
coruse -- give over their child for all-nighters with the "friend." These
sorts of under developed pedarasts always start with "innocent" wrestling
matches, arm wrestling, "see how hard you can hit my chest," "let's take a
shower together" & other activities that encourage mutual nakedness & bed
bouncing, & it escalates only if the child is suitably pliable & the
parents sufficiently self-blindered by the money to be made. Everyone
involved pretends the inappropriate sale of bedroom privileges with the
child is appropriate & innocent -- because to admit otherwise shuts off
the money fountain.

In the long run the parents are worse than Jackson. His excuse is he's
miswired; theirs is that they're greedy & willing to play at being unaware
for the profit of it. He's manifestly enough of a risk that parents really
concerned for their childrens' welfare would at least err on the side of
safety -- & would obviously would not permit a middleaged man with
childish propensities to sleep with their sons -- that is, if it weren't
so damned profitable to pretend they're not pandering their young. And
Jackson in his own words makes it clear that his privilege of taking these
boys into his bedroom alone at night is NOT something he's willing ever to
give up -- because having the wonderful child-trap of a personal zoo &
carnival rides was never something that happened organically without
ulterior motive.

****er for the parents of little girls who can't make the same profitable
bargain.

And remember, the author of Michael's coopted self-imaged Peter Pan
himself left a trail of emotionally damaged children, & the living
prototypes for his "Lost Boys" truly were tragic in the aftermath of
Barrie's sinister attention. As critic & literary fantasist Brigid
Brophy has written of Barrie's classic: "his theme being incest,
castration and homosexuality, Peter Pan is an aesthetic massacre of the
innocents." And when one goes back to the original novel, we see that
Peter Pan is a somewhat self-hating, a dark figure really harmful in his
promises, as well as himself doomed by his incurable condition. Like
Michael Jackson, Peter feels sorry for himself, & practically begs to be
pitied, claiming weakness & childishness as his excuse for what amounts to
criminality, in the same way that Michael bursts into tears (as the court
testimony claims he did when a boy expressed his dislike of being
french-kissed in bed, or when Bashir was finally honest in the final
interview).

Sir James Barrie was an all-out pedophile who never consummated his
belated marriage to Mary Ansell (who divorced him, never having had the
option of sharing her life with him), yet he had no problems expressing
all his passionate feelings toward the sons of Sylvia & Arthur Davies.
It's hardly subliminal that Peter is also named for the erotic god Pan, &
the tradition of casting boyish women in the roll of Peter on the stage
very likely arose from the completely inappropriate nature of ever showing
on stage grown men carrying on in this manner with boys. And no wonder
Mark Twain assessed the play as "sordid."

Barrie's arrested sexual development has been traced to his mother's
response to the death of his older brother David -- not because he grieved
that David Barrie died at age 13, but because James saw his mother's
extravagant grief, & began to wear David's clothes, whistle in the manner
of David, & sneak into his mother's room at night pretending to be David.
Whether this really marks the origin of James' pedarasty I wouldn't hazard
as strongly as do some literary historians, but it's interesting he was
always a weirdo. Like Michael Jackson after him, James, when in his 30s,
began to arrange fairy tale adventures for boys he had crushes on,
arranging repeatedly to be left alone with them. Such family friendships
might sometimes be possible with all innocent intent, BUT NOT WHEN LIKE
JACKO & BARRIE, THEY ABSOLUTELY INSIST ON BEING LEFT ALONE NIGHTS WITH
THEIR CHOSEN FAVORITES. Arthur Davies knew, & complained, that something
odd was up with James' obsession for the boys, & one of the actual "lost
boys" whose name was indeed Peter is on record stating planely that Barrie
"brought more sorrow than happiness into our family," & his life ended in
suicide by leaping under a tram (another of Barrie's five Lost Boys is
believed to have commited suicide at age 21, though there's an off chance
it was an accidental drowning).

So absolutely, I accept that James Barrie/Peter Pan is the PERFECT emblem
for Michael Jackson, & not surprised he identifies with Peter Pan, because
I also do not believe believe Jackson is unaware that Peter Pan is a
symbol of nambla, & Barrie one of the appalling "pedophile movement's"
leading icons whose novel & play are repeatedly cited as "evidence" that
pedarasty is good.

-paghat the ratgirl

The message
from (Jeffrey Barker) contains these words:

I'm not trying to pick on any single person, so please ignore the fact
that I have to single out one person to reply to.

No, you don't. Anyone can join a thread by posting their own comment
independently, without replying to another's post.

You've made an awful fool of yourself by requoting a whole long post
of the kind you're criticising, (you should have edited it out) and
reviving a discussion which was old and finished.

This is not only a hijack of this thread, but of the whole board.

Wrong again. The rest of the newsgroup (not board) is still there,
containing hundreds of current gardening threads for anyone to read and
contribute to.

Janet.

On 7 Mar 2003 07:06:12 -0800, (Jeffrey Barker)
wrote:

I'm not trying to pick on any single person, so please ignore the fact
that I have to single out one person to reply to.

Christ, you guys. This is the GARDENING newsgroup. If we want to
discuss what a frigging pederast Jackson is, we can do it ANYWHERE.

Subject: Bees in your Garden?

Jesus. Really. When I want to discuss sushi I go to afs. Mexican
cooking, afmc. Gardening, rg. I'm not trying to be a nazi, but
really. This is not only a hijack of this thread, but of the whole
board. Yeah, OT happens, but jesus christ.

Sorry. Sort of.

Jeffrey

Well Jeffery, that's not the best Howdy Do I've come across but no
matter. As V wrote check the dates. The thread was dead. In the off
season we often get into other subjects and friendly arguments. Are
you just now finding rec.gardens? If you are reading and posting from
google sometimes the threads are a little hard to follow. If you get
a news reader like Agent it will be much easier. Where are you
gardening? North or South of the equator? Welcome aboard. Introduce
yourself and tell us a little about yourself.

zhan

"Timber" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I have been toying with the idea of setting up a small hive because:
#1 I need help in pollination--sometimes that paint brush requires more
time
than I care to spend. (Sure we get wind storms all the time, but never
when
you need them!)
#2 I use bees wax for painting my eggs
#3 I LOVE HONEY and use it in so many of my beauty products
Do you have any helps or an honest place to go for a small beginners hive
kit? I like the look of the natural skep's (I think that's what they are
called) and understand these may not be a lasting or a good option. I
simply
mentioned them for the asthetics as we get many visitors to our Gardens.


A lot will depend on where you are but the best thing is to join your local
beekeepers club and ask thier advice. I wouldn't start with skeps because
you necessarily have to largely kill off the colony to extract the honey,
which often ends up tainted by all the larvae you'll strain out. A good
modern hive with moveable frames and a queen excluder (stops her laying
amongst the main honey stock) is much more manageable and allows you to look
after your bees easily with no losses to harvest the honey. If you need a
pretty hive the WBC is the layered one often painted white and seen in many
illustrations, but many beekeepers in the UK and US (including me) use
Nationals or Langstroths. I would recommend getting a number of modern
beekeeping books from the library and reading them carefully, then start
with one hive that you can learn to handle (I've had mine two years now and
it took a lot of trail and error and one hospitalization before I worked out
just how to handle the bees so that they don't sting me too badly and I dont
cause them unnecessary distress). If you start small you can learn to handle
tyour bees so you get excellent supplies and the bees do not have any
unnecessary aggrevation, and do make sure you discuss the nature of the bees
with yor supplier, if you have a lot of visitors you need a really docile
strain.
There are a few beekeeping newsgroups out there and it is definately worth
spending a few months getting advice and listening in before you take the
plunge, I adore my bees and wouldn't be without them, but I sensitized to
their stings over the first year and they could easily kill me now if I
mishandle them, so caution is a good thing!
I wish you much joy with your bees!
Sally

I think it is a great idea to start a small hobby beekeeping
operation. The bees will facinate you to no end. Visit the form site
www.beesource.com, it is loaded with great tips and advice. There is
a specific form for beginner beekeeper, so no question is left
unanswered.
Buy your bees after you have researched them a bit. They are a bit of
an envestment of time and money, but will pay you loads of dividends
with honey and pollination services.

Ian

in article , Ian at
wrote on 3/10/03 4:27 PM:

I think it is a great idea to start a small hobby beekeeping
operation. The bees will facinate you to no end. Visit the form site
www.beesource.com, it is loaded with great tips and advice. There is
a specific form for beginner beekeeper, so no question is left
unanswered.
Buy your bees after you have researched them a bit. They are a bit of
an envestment of time and money, but will pay you loads of dividends
with honey and pollination services.

Ian

Ian,

I've not bought any. There seem to be plenty around. Someone in my
neighborhood must have some because I always have bees on everything.

The biggest surprise was how much they love duckweed. Yes, duckweed. I took
my son to the Achafalya swamp in Louisiana one summer and brought back a
film cannister full of duckweed.

I dropped the duckweed in my little plastic backyard pond. Well the bees
came flying in, landed on the duckweed, used them as 'floaties' so they
could drink the water. It was so cute!! So now I always make sure I have
some duckweed in my pond.

Best -- LL

Mike Waldvogel, PhD
Extension Specialist, Residential & Industrial Pests
Dept. of Entomology, NCSU-Box 7613, Raleigh, NC USA 27695-7613
Ph: (919) 515-8881 Fax: (919) 515-7746
Email:
Wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean when you say that wasps are
"independent". 'Social' doesn't describe the insect's disposition;

I can see that from my previous comments, I'm going to have to explain
my reasoning a bit better. This is how "I" understand honeybee and
wasp behaviour so bear with me.
Honeybees require the function of the colony at all times to survive
from year to year. They depend on eachother to perform various tasks
within the colony to maintain colony cohesion and keep social order.
A honeybee at any given time throughout the year could not survive
without the colony function.
Wasps function as a colony only for part of the year, wintering and
propagateing independly. Sucsessfully wintered queens emerge from
hibernation and independenly start a new nest. Raised females take
over her job of foraging for nectar and pollen and she remains in the
nest laying eggs and providing social order within the nest. Late
summer, early fall rolles along and she starts laying solely Queens,
which emerge and are cared by the female workers. It is these queen
who independenly propagate the species by leaving the nest, and winter
sucessfully to start a new colony.
What I was trying to imply was most honeybees ( our Euorpean type)
instictivally flea danger unless trapped, panicked, or aggitated
around their hive. Where a wasp whose instinctivly more defensive,
will also flea danger, but will attack danger more readily than
honeybees. I find especially during times of late summer and fall.
They are equiped with a barbless stinger and may attack without
penalty of death.
Wasps do not store nectar for later use as bees do, becasue they
winter as individual queens. The wasps foraging intensity increase
during the later months as the queens emerge. Late summer, and fall
floral sources are somewhat scariss in most reagions, so they go after
sugars found around humans. I think because food is more scarce they
are more easily aggitated and punishes anything that angers them.
(independent insect instinctually attacking danger)
Honeybees are the only insect which collects and stores nectar as
honey. It is stored to provide energy for the bees to generate heat
throughout the winter. Because of this fact the bees usually are
plugged with honey in their hive from summer forageing and their fall
foraging earges are reduced. That and the compounded fact that the
bees are fed sugar water to bulk the hive up a bit which eliminates
most of the need to forage. (social insect instinctually flea from
danger)
When you think of it, a honeybee colony enters winter around 40,000 -
50,000 stronge, where a wasp nest approches the 100 mark. And it tend
to alway be the wasp that is the pest in the fall.
Also I think that a huge factor is that Yellowjackets tend to nest in
ground near trees and buildings. Bolt faced hornetts tend to nest
under eaves and in trees. Becasue of this they are usually nested
near peoples yards, and become easily aggitated. I bet alot of stings
come after a lawn mower has gone over a Yellowjackets nest.
Don't get too excited about my comments becasue these are just my
observations and thoughts.

Ian