On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:24:06 GMT, Phisherman wrote:


The only thing which has cholesterol comes from an animal. Whether it
be their fat, muscle, whatever. Stop meat you will be off Lipitor
most likely.


Nope. Vegetarian for 8 years and 2 hours activity daily, slightly
underweight. My cholesterol is 280, but I have a high good
cholesterol score. No drugs.

I wasn't talking to you when I said that. I was talking to someone
who is taking Lipitor. What the alarmist doctors don't tell everyone
is that there are many people who have normally higher levels of
cholesterol and nothing is wrong with them. So, they slap out a pill,
give NO nutritional recommendation and the rich get richer.

In your case, your combined cholesterol indicates you have more good
cholesterol than bad. You are naturally high, combined. Did that
make sense? It's REALLY early for me and I shouldn't go into Usenet
when I haven't finished my coffee!

On 27 Apr 2007 05:13:43 -0700, Frank wrote:


I'm not going to research this and draw my own conclusions but
chemically all cholesterol is the same:
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.co...structure.html
The difference between HDL and LDL is the lipoproteins that it travels
with.
(Not sure I would believe stuff in rest of cited website - I picked it
because first slide is correct).

For my part, with diagnosed angina and needing stents. I will do what
doctors say and keep away from a lot of animal fat, take Lipator and
lose belly fat. I got plenty of exercise and cholesterol ratio was
favorable but I still got blocked coronary arteries.Doctors blame my
poor, sainted mother who died of heart disease at 65.

Your comment in other post is correct that you can get balanced
protein from a wholey vegetarian diet. You just have to eat protein
from different vegetable sources as vegetable protein is not a
"complete protein", i.e. contains all essential amino acids as does
animal protein.

Frank

Sure thing, you do what your doctor tells you, of course. I'm sorry
you lost your mom so young. My father died because of liver cancer
when he was 59. Now that I'm 51 I can see how young he was when he
died and I miss him every day.

Thanks for the good discussion and keep doing what you have to do in
order to stay healthy. Rice and beans make whole protein. I feel ten
times better since I stopped meat, and I will feel even better when I
stop daity and eggs.

Victoria

In article ,
Phisherman wrote:

Vegetarian for 8 years and 2 hours activity daily, slightly
underweight. My cholesterol is 280, but I have a high good
cholesterol score. No drugs.

Angler, I applaud your dedication to your regime of diet and
exercise.What does your cardiologist say? 280 is way too high. I know
there is some buzz about statins having there own problems but don't let
vain pride keep you from lowering your cholesterol. You can look forward
to a surgery scar over your sternum if you don't get it under 200. We
only have three ways of controlling cholesterol, diet, exercise and,
(lastly) drugs. If you can get it under 200 without drugs, great, but
don't toy with it. It is a matter of life and death. Better to be an
Angler than an Angel.

Been there, done that, got the scar to prove it.

- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

On Apr 27, 12:26 pm, William Rose wrote:
In article ,

Phisherman wrote:
Vegetarian for 8 years and 2 hours activity daily, slightly
underweight. My cholesterol is 280, but I have a high good
cholesterol score. No drugs.

Angler, I applaud your dedication to your regime of diet and
exercise.What does your cardiologist say? 280 is way too high. I know
there is some buzz about statins having there own problems but don't let
vain pride keep you from lowering your cholesterol. You can look forward
to a surgery scar over your sternum if you don't get it under 200. We
only have three ways of controlling cholesterol, diet, exercise and,
(lastly) drugs. If you can get it under 200 without drugs, great, but
don't toy with it. It is a matter of life and death. Better to be an
Angler than an Angel.

Been there, done that, got the scar to prove it.

- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)


If you're lucky, you can look forward to that scar. I heard about
half don't survive the first heart attack. My wife's cholesterol was
like Phisherman's but after she saw what I went through, she told
doctor to put her on Lipitor and has us both on heart healthy diet.

I got the scar too but from surgery to remove a pulmonary embolism
over 6 years ago.

Frank

In article . com,
Frank wrote:

On Apr 27, 12:26 pm, William Rose wrote:
In article ,

Phisherman wrote:
Vegetarian for 8 years and 2 hours activity daily, slightly
underweight. My cholesterol is 280, but I have a high good
cholesterol score. No drugs.

Angler, I applaud your dedication to your regime of diet and
exercise.What does your cardiologist say? 280 is way too high. I know
there is some buzz about statins having there own problems but don't let
vain pride keep you from lowering your cholesterol. You can look forward
to a surgery scar over your sternum if you don't get it under 200. We
only have three ways of controlling cholesterol, diet, exercise and,
(lastly) drugs. If you can get it under 200 without drugs, great, but
don't toy with it. It is a matter of life and death. Better to be an
Angler than an Angel.

Been there, done that, got the scar to prove it.

- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)


If you're lucky, you can look forward to that scar. I heard about
half don't survive the first heart attack. My wife's cholesterol was
like Phisherman's but after she saw what I went through, she told
doctor to put her on Lipitor and has us both on heart healthy diet.

I got the scar too but from surgery to remove a pulmonary embolism
over 6 years ago.

Frank

Something to play with. Plug in your numbers then try it higher then
lower.

Bill

http://www.yourdiseaserisk.harvard.e...art&quiz=heart

--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

In article

..net,
William Wagner wrote:

I got the scar too but from surgery to remove a pulmonary embolism
over 6 years ago.

Frank

Something to play with. Plug in your numbers then try it higher then
lower.

Bill

http://www.yourdiseaserisk.harvard.e...art&quiz=heart

--

Frank,
glad you are still on the right side of the grass. Shortly after my
surgery, which looked like someone had badly stitched-up a mattress, a
colleagues boy-friend got his incision glued with no scar. The fuzz on
my chest mostly keeps that one covered up but the one on my leg is
"oougly". Anyway, if you know someone in the same position you might
have them inquire about the glue.

Bill, the test looks interesting but I worry about Admiral Poindexter
and his cohorts. I'd feel wierd if I suddenly started getting medical
junk mail and insurance agents jumped out windows when they saw me
coming. Paranoid? Ich? In this culture? Ja, sure, you betcha. I know, I
know, but I don't think the bots are smart enough to put this together,
yet. But you never know about the Stazi.

The temperature here is running in the mid-seventies during the day,
mid-forties at night. This has been going on for about five days now. A
week ago I was still building fires. Two days ago I saw the first honey
bee of the season. Count them, one. Yesterday, I saw another one. The
butterflies are multiplying quickly though. Two days ago there was only
a couple, until one of my cats ate one of them. Today, there must be a
dozen of them.

Today, I finished amending my salad garden and have started with the
transplanting and seeding. I'm almost dry again. Time to get back to
work.

- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

In article
,
William Rose wrote:

In article

.net,
William Wagner wrote:

I got the scar too but from surgery to remove a pulmonary embolism
over 6 years ago.

Frank

Something to play with. Plug in your numbers then try it higher then
lower.

Bill

http://www.yourdiseaserisk.harvard.e...art&quiz=heart

--

Frank,
glad you are still on the right side of the grass. Shortly after my
surgery, which looked like someone had badly stitched-up a mattress, a
colleagues boy-friend got his incision glued with no scar. The fuzz on
my chest mostly keeps that one covered up but the one on my leg is
"oougly". Anyway, if you know someone in the same position you might
have them inquire about the glue.


My CABG was 9/14/01

I've a scare from my ankle to my groin. Also have a scare on my left
leg where a pump was installed.

Glued may be very much of import as the vein was troublesome after
surgery. I've not heard of glued before anywhere.



Bill, the test looks interesting but I worry about Admiral Poindexter
and his cohorts. I'd feel wierd if I suddenly started getting medical
junk mail and insurance agents jumped out windows when they saw me
coming. Paranoid? Ich? In this culture? Ja, sure, you betcha. I know, I
know, but I don't think the bots are smart enough to put this together,
yet. But you never know about the Stazi.


Give fake data and then give things that matter to you. You paranoid
like me person. )

The temperature here is running in the mid-seventies during the day,
mid-forties at night. This has been going on for about five days now. A
week ago I was still building fires. Two days ago I saw the first honey
bee of the season. Count them, one. Yesterday, I saw another one. The
butterflies are multiplying quickly though. Two days ago there was only
a couple, until one of my cats ate one of them. Today, there must be a
dozen of them.

Today, I finished amending my salad garden and have started with the
transplanting and seeding. I'm almost dry again. Time to get back to
work.

Rain here and excuse to be here.

Bill Wagner

- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

Still think you should be over in Sci.Med.Cardiogy

Yea I know lots of crazies but .

--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

On Apr 27, 4:12 pm, William Rose wrote:
In article

.net,
William Wagner wrote:

I got the scar too but from surgery to remove a pulmonary embolism
over 6 years ago.

Frank

Something to play with. Plug in your numbers then try it higher then
lower.

Bill

http://www.yourdiseaserisk.harvard.e...art&quiz=heart

--

Frank,
glad you are still on the right side of the grass. Shortly after my
surgery, which looked like someone had badly stitched-up a mattress, a
colleagues boy-friend got his incision glued with no scar. The fuzz on
my chest mostly keeps that one covered up but the one on my leg is
"oougly". Anyway, if you know someone in the same position you might
have them inquire about the glue.

Bill, the test looks interesting but I worry about Admiral Poindexter
and his cohorts. I'd feel wierd if I suddenly started getting medical
junk mail and insurance agents jumped out windows when they saw me
coming. Paranoid? Ich? In this culture? Ja, sure, you betcha. I know, I
know, but I don't think the bots are smart enough to put this together,
yet. But you never know about the Stazi.

The temperature here is running in the mid-seventies during the day,
mid-forties at night. This has been going on for about five days now. A
week ago I was still building fires. Two days ago I saw the first honey
bee of the season. Count them, one. Yesterday, I saw another one. The
butterflies are multiplying quickly though. Two days ago there was only
a couple, until one of my cats ate one of them. Today, there must be a
dozen of them.

Today, I finished amending my salad garden and have started with the
transplanting and seeding. I'm almost dry again. Time to get back to
work.

- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

My scar was taped with what looked like little bandages that slowly
fell off. Worse part of chest healing was hair growing back in.
Scars more or less just a white line. With bypass, I've heard legs are
the toughest part of recovery. I think because they need to cut
muscle where there are no muscles or tendons straight down chest. When
I was recovering in hospital in cardiac unit you could tell the bypass
patients from the other heart patents by scars on their legs.

I do have some other rugged looking scars on chest when they first
thought my clots were due to lung cancer and did exploritory. In my
chest xray you can see stitches in the lungs from the exploritory,
wires left behind where they truss up your chest when closing, and a
metal plate with 5 screws in my shoulder from a collarbone repair
years ago.

Deer and shade did in my garden out back but now I'm hardening up
tomatos, peppers and eggplant for planting in pots on deck. Frost
free date in northern DE is May 15.

Frank

In article

..net,
William Wagner wrote:

In article
,
William Rose wrote:

In article

.net,
William Wagner wrote:

I got the scar too but from surgery to remove a pulmonary embolism
over 6 years ago.

Frank

Something to play with. Plug in your numbers then try it higher then
lower.

Bill

http://www.yourdiseaserisk.harvard.e...art&quiz=heart

--

Frank,
glad you are still on the right side of the grass. Shortly after my
surgery, which looked like someone had badly stitched-up a mattress, a
colleagues boy-friend got his incision glued with no scar. The fuzz on
my chest mostly keeps that one covered up but the one on my leg is
"oougly". Anyway, if you know someone in the same position you might
have them inquire about the glue.


My CABG was 9/14/01

I've a scare from my ankle to my groin. Also have a scare on my left
leg where a pump was installed.

Glued may be very much of import as the vein was troublesome after
surgery. I've not heard of glued before anywhere.



Bill, the test looks interesting but I worry about Admiral Poindexter
and his cohorts. I'd feel wierd if I suddenly started getting medical
junk mail and insurance agents jumped out windows when they saw me
coming. Paranoid? Ich? In this culture? Ja, sure, you betcha. I know, I
know, but I don't think the bots are smart enough to put this together,
yet. But you never know about the Stazi.


Give fake data and then give things that matter to you. You paranoid
like me person. )

The temperature here is running in the mid-seventies during the day,
mid-forties at night. This has been going on for about five days now. A
week ago I was still building fires. Two days ago I saw the first honey
bee of the season. Count them, one. Yesterday, I saw another one. The
butterflies are multiplying quickly though. Two days ago there was only
a couple, until one of my cats ate one of them. Today, there must be a
dozen of them.

Today, I finished amending my salad garden and have started with the
transplanting and seeding. I'm almost dry again. Time to get back to
work.

Rain here and excuse to be here.

Bill Wagner

- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

Still think you should be over in Sci.Med.Cardiogy

Yea I know lots of crazies but .

This certainly seems to be the place for me, "The Over the Hill Gang".
Nothin' but walking wounded. I'm sure that trying to get gardening
"right" helps keep me in the game. So many plants, so much to know. It's
like any good vice. It has lots of depth.

Oh, I did wander over to that news group for the mentally infirm today.
No bites yet from "un-killed" correspondents. I had to leave when my
kill button started getting hot. I think that they could turn it into a
video game.

Ah, rain, a nice fire, somethin' to sip on and, a well stacked
pile of seed catalogues. Seed catalogues, a natural chick magnet. I have
this one who has been coming around for nearly forty years. The chick,
that is but, as usual, I digress . . .

- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

all cholesterols are the same.
it all starts with sugar and glycerol called triglycerides
glycerol has 3 carbons.
c
c
c
to this is added the fatty acids built from 2C (carbon) units you get from sugar

c----fatty acid
c----fatty acid
c----fatty acid

this is a triglyceride

animals make fatty acids certain lengths
plants make fatty acids of different lengths and are called "essential fatty acids"
because animals cant make them that length
fish make special fatty acids ... the omegas

the original and most important use of triglycerides is cell membranes, the sack
around every cell in every living thing. it is made by subbing one FA with a
phosphate

c----P
c----fatty acid
c----fatty acid

this is called a phospholipid

there are several essential molecules made from triglyceride

Cholesterol, which goes on to be made into vitamin D, and the sex hormones

cholesterol, which is essential to stabilizing every cell in the body of every
animal. cholesterol is made primarily in the liver, but also in every cell of the
body. cholesterol is also the "bandaid" that starts the repair of injuries to the
cells of the body. Cholesterol doesnt "cause" artery disease, injuries to the lining
of the arteries results in cholesterol attempting repair of the artery.

Does it occur to anyone that veins dont have this big buildups of plaque? that is
because the disease process doesnt attack the lining of veins. It may well be that
most artery disease is due to an infectious or chronic inflammatory disease.

http://badgerherald.com/news/2005/04...s_heart_di.php
"A type of chlamydia infection that often leads to pneumonia may also be linked to
serious heart attacks in young men, according to a recent study. After lengthy
analysis of the data, the researchers discovered that high levels of the IgA antibody
are associated with serious heart attacks.
“We are trying to figure out if some of these infections in the long run contribute
to having a heart attack at a young age,” said co-author Javier Nieto, chair of the
Department of Population Health Sciences at UW Medical School.
The team is now focusing on what triggers the infection to act as a catalyst in heart
disease in some cases while triggering only a common cold in others.
“Our research is trying to give us clues why heart disease occurs in some and not
others, and we are trying to find the cause and prevent it,” Nieto added.
The researchers said other evidence also suggests bacterial infections may trigger
inflammatory responses or autoimmune reactions leading to the buildup of plaques and
the hardening of arteries, which eventually lead to heart attacks."

this is an authentic, scientific, referred journal published study. In others I have
read about other bacteria that have also been implicated and they seem to all share
certain antigen sites that are cross reacting to artery lining. One other example of
this is rheumatic heart disease where an infection by a certain strain of Strep
causes a bad cross reaction with heart valve tissue. the host body makes antibodies
to heart valve and then severely damages the heart valves.

Let us remember ulcers and how diet, life style, etc were blamed for ulcers. Then
researchers finally found the bacteria Camphylobacter was responsible for MOST
ulcers, and MOST people who get ulcers are type O blood group. Other groups can be
infected and have all kinds of acid reflux, etc. but they dont usually get ulcers.
HOWEVER, aspirin and ibuprofen can still cause ulcers, so the bacteria does not cause
100% of the disease.

As an immunologist I am concerned with chronic inflammation and chronic pain as a
triggering factor in addition to bacteria, maybe viruses. There are many humans that
are allergic to much of the food we eat. I am allergic to wheat, peanuts and corn.
It activates immune cells in my gut when I eat them and MAY lead to a chronic
inflammation. I dont know, this is speculation based on the following information.


However. One of the fastest non drug ways of bringing cholesterol levels down is to
stop eating sugar and carbohydrates. without the sugar building blocks triglyceride
cannot be made. People on Atkins high protein, lo carb diets have triglycerides drop
into the basement and their cholesterol drops, their blood pressure drops. A recent
AND INDEPENDENT study showed that there was no apparent long term negative effects on
heart disease from an Atkins diet.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1109095850.htm
20-year Study Finds No Association Between Low-carb Diets And Risk Of Coronary Heart
Disease
The study appears in the November 9, 2006, issue of The New England Journal of
Medicine

OTOH, there is no solid, independent scientific evidence that using drugs to lower
cholesterol has any effect in preventing heart attacks. "clinical trials" performed
FOR a drug company DO NOT COUNT. Until recently those statin drug ads on TV had a
disclaimer in small print and spoken very fast that using their product has not been
shown to prevent heart attacks. Pay enough money and anyone can come up with some
company will find what they want.

I taught med students for a while. I went to school with vet students. I have a
very clear view of their abilities and they are not taught independent thinking nor
is it one of their strengths. Physicians are not scientists UNLESS they have done
PhD training. They are heavily influenced at every stage of their training by the
drug manufacturers. The continue to be bombarded by drug companies once they are
practicing. It is necessary for all people to take their health into their own hands
and do the research (now easy with the internet) and learn how to find and understand
the good information and ignore the "for profit" ads masquerading as information.
Most of all, we must not simply put our lives into the hands of another person and
believe what they tell us, especially not a physician who doesnt know us and doesnt
love us or even like us.

Ingrid


No argument there. However, your body manufactures the good
cholesterol not the bad.
I'm not going to research this and draw my own conclusions but
chemically all cholesterol is the same:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

In article ,
wrote:

all cholesterols are the same.
it all starts with sugar and glycerol called triglycerides
glycerol has 3 carbons.
c
c
c
to this is added the fatty acids built from 2C (carbon) units you get from
sugar

c----fatty acid
c----fatty acid
c----fatty acid

this is a triglyceride

animals make fatty acids certain lengths
plants make fatty acids of different lengths and are called "essential fatty
acids"
because animals cant make them that length
fish make special fatty acids ... the omegas

the original and most important use of triglycerides is cell membranes, the
sack
around every cell in every living thing. it is made by subbing one FA with a
phosphate

c----P
c----fatty acid
c----fatty acid

this is called a phospholipid

there are several essential molecules made from triglyceride

Cholesterol, which goes on to be made into vitamin D, and the sex hormones

cholesterol, which is essential to stabilizing every cell in the body of
every
animal. cholesterol is made primarily in the liver, but also in every cell
of the
body. cholesterol is also the "bandaid" that starts the repair of injuries
to the
cells of the body. Cholesterol doesnt "cause" artery disease, injuries to
the lining
of the arteries results in cholesterol attempting repair of the artery.

Does it occur to anyone that veins dont have this big buildups of plaque?
that is
because the disease process doesnt attack the lining of veins. It may well
be that
most artery disease is due to an infectious or chronic inflammatory disease.

http://badgerherald.com/news/2005/04...s_heart_di.php
"A type of chlamydia infection that often leads to pneumonia may also be
linked to
serious heart attacks in young men, according to a recent study. After
lengthy
analysis of the data, the researchers discovered that high levels of the IgA
antibody
are associated with serious heart attacks.
“We are trying to figure out if some of these infections in the long run
contribute
to having a heart attack at a young age,” said co-author Javier Nieto, chair
of the
Department of Population Health Sciences at UW Medical School.
The team is now focusing on what triggers the infection to act as a catalyst
in heart
disease in some cases while triggering only a common cold in others.
“Our research is trying to give us clues why heart disease occurs in some and
not
others, and we are trying to find the cause and prevent it,” Nieto added.
The researchers said other evidence also suggests bacterial infections may
trigger
inflammatory responses or autoimmune reactions leading to the buildup of
plaques and
the hardening of arteries, which eventually lead to heart attacks."

this is an authentic, scientific, referred journal published study. In
others I have
read about other bacteria that have also been implicated and they seem to all
share
certain antigen sites that are cross reacting to artery lining. One other
example of
this is rheumatic heart disease where an infection by a certain strain of
Strep
causes a bad cross reaction with heart valve tissue. the host body makes
antibodies
to heart valve and then severely damages the heart valves.

Let us remember ulcers and how diet, life style, etc were blamed for ulcers.
Then
researchers finally found the bacteria Camphylobacter was responsible for
MOST
ulcers, and MOST people who get ulcers are type O blood group. Other groups
can be
infected and have all kinds of acid reflux, etc. but they dont usually get
ulcers.
HOWEVER, aspirin and ibuprofen can still cause ulcers, so the bacteria does
not cause
100% of the disease.

As an immunologist I am concerned with chronic inflammation and chronic pain
as a
triggering factor in addition to bacteria, maybe viruses. There are many
humans that
are allergic to much of the food we eat. I am allergic to wheat, peanuts and
corn.
It activates immune cells in my gut when I eat them and MAY lead to a chronic
inflammation. I dont know, this is speculation based on the following
information.


However. One of the fastest non drug ways of bringing cholesterol levels
down is to
stop eating sugar and carbohydrates. without the sugar building blocks
triglyceride
cannot be made. People on Atkins high protein, lo carb diets have
triglycerides drop
into the basement and their cholesterol drops, their blood pressure drops. A
recent
AND INDEPENDENT study showed that there was no apparent long term negative
effects on
heart disease from an Atkins diet.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1109095850.htm
20-year Study Finds No Association Between Low-carb Diets And Risk Of
Coronary Heart
Disease
The study appears in the November 9, 2006, issue of The New England Journal
of
Medicine

OTOH, there is no solid, independent scientific evidence that using drugs to
lower
cholesterol has any effect in preventing heart attacks. "clinical trials"
performed
FOR a drug company DO NOT COUNT. Until recently those statin drug ads on TV
had a
disclaimer in small print and spoken very fast that using their product has
not been
shown to prevent heart attacks. Pay enough money and anyone can come up with
some
company will find what they want.

I taught med students for a while. I went to school with vet students. I
have a
very clear view of their abilities and they are not taught independent
thinking nor
is it one of their strengths. Physicians are not scientists UNLESS they have
done
PhD training. They are heavily influenced at every stage of their training by
the
drug manufacturers. The continue to be bombarded by drug companies once they
are
practicing. It is necessary for all people to take their health into their
own hands
and do the research (now easy with the internet) and learn how to find and
understand
the good information and ignore the "for profit" ads masquerading as
information.
Most of all, we must not simply put our lives into the hands of another
person and
believe what they tell us, especially not a physician who doesnt know us and
doesnt
love us or even like us.

Ingrid


No argument there. However, your body manufactures the good
cholesterol not the bad.
I'm not going to research this and draw my own conclusions but
chemically all cholesterol is the same:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up:
http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

Ingrid

Any chance you can post this over in Sci.Med.Cardiology ?

Or can I copy it and post it?

Bill

--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

On Wed, 02 May 2007 13:24:57 GMT, wrote:


snip parts of excellent informative post by Ingrid

Some additional comments inserted below:

it all starts with sugar and glycerol called triglycerides
glycerol has 3 carbons.
c
c
c
to this is added the fatty acids built from 2C (carbon) units you get from sugar

c----fatty acid
c----fatty acid
c----fatty acid

this is a triglyceride

animals make fatty acids certain lengths
plants make fatty acids of different lengths and are called "essential fatty acids"
because animals cant make them that length
fish make special fatty acids ... the omegas

the original and most important use of triglycerides is cell membranes, the sack
around every cell in every living thing. it is made by subbing one FA with a
phosphate

c----P
c----fatty acid
c----fatty acid

this is called a phospholipid

there are several essential molecules made from triglyceride

Cholesterol, which goes on to be made into vitamin D, and the sex hormones


Not just the sex hormones. Cholesterol is the precursor for all the
steroid hormones made in the cortex of the adrenal gland, which
include the glucocorticoid steroids (main one, cortisol) which
regulate many essential aspects of sugar, fat and amino acid (protein)
metabolism, as well as the adrenal mineralocortocoid steroids (main
one aldosterone) that regulate salt (and to some extent water) levels
in the blood, and thus are particularly important for controlling
blood pressure. Glucocorticoids can also have important effects on
dampening down the actions of our immune system. Since the output of
glucocorticoids is increased in stress, this can sometimes produce
beneficial anti-inflammatory effects, although the downside of this
can be a reduction in our ability to fight infections etc during
stress. Ultimately, we can't do without our cholesterol otherwise we
wouldn't have these various essential hormones being made!

cholesterol, which is essential to stabilizing every cell in the body of every
animal. cholesterol is made primarily in the liver, but also in every cell of the
body. cholesterol is also the "bandaid" that starts the repair of injuries to the
cells of the body. Cholesterol doesnt "cause" artery disease, injuries to the lining
of the arteries results in cholesterol attempting repair of the artery.

But cells of the immune system (macrophages, T-lymphocytes) home in on
the cholesterol deposits that form part of the plaque that starts to
accumulate in the lining of blood vessels in atherosclerotic disease.
The plaque can ultimately build up into a significant mass of these
and other cells that can start to occlude the blood vessel and act as
a focus for clot formation that can block blood flow completely in the
vessel. In these processes, macrophages try to ingest the cholesterol
deposits and in the process become what are called foam cells, so the
immune system is not too happy with cholesterol building up as lesions
in the lining of the arteries, and therefore the cholesterol deposits
must be part of the process that initiates the inflammatory process
that is currently believed to be a significant part of atherosclerotic
disease. However, any other processes that damage arterial integrity,
especially of the endothelial protective lining of the blood vessels,
are also likely to be contributory factors in the overall aetiology of
the disease.

much other good information of Ingrid's snipped

Regards

Geoff