On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:35:25 -0700, William Rose
wrote:

|In article ,
| John Bachman wrote:

| organic Islamists


|???? This is incredibly offensive.....
|Let's converse like adults.


Fat chance! I just kill-filtered him/her or should I say, "It?"
Why waste time responding to such pre-adolescent nyah-nyah?
Weed-B-Gone!
He's JohnREMOVED.

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:05:21 GMT, wrote:

|On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:35:25 -0700, William Rose

|wrote:
|
| |In article
,
| | John Bachman
Alexander Miller,Vancouver Island; Zone 7(8?)
Shallow topsoil, blue clay beneath.
Soggy winters, baked dry summers.
Using mostly raised beds

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:59:00 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

Ann wrote:
John Bachman expounded:

Do that and there is little danger to
those who consume the produce contrary to the beliefs of those who
consume insect larvae in their veggies and fruits.

While I don't have insect larvae in any of my veggies or fruit
(contrary to your misinformation) I'd rather eat them than produce
doused in chemicals.


It's a matter of degree, doncha think?

Bob

For some people, it is a matter of religious practice. I learned, on
last trip to Israel, that people who keep very Kosher will buy only
bagged greens that have a certification. Meaning that they have
been washed so thoroughly that no living critters are left on the
greens.

Persephone

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:30:49 -0500, Lar wrote:

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:




No chemical has ever or will ever be tested for safety in humans. Hire a

If you mean humans used as pesticide "test animals" sure they have.
Several not too distant studies are around on different products. EPA
had quit accepting such data only as recent

RECENTLY

as 1998 for regulatory
purposes on pesticides. So it's ethical to admit such studies on
chemicals used as pharmaceuticals which may only effect

AFFECT

a small part of
the population and unethical for the same type of studies on another
chemical that by it's

ITS

usage may effect

AFFECT

a much larger percentage of the
population because it is called a pesticide.


Lar

Sorry - I had one of those attacks. Helpless when the
grammar grips me.

"Persephone" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:59:00 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

Ann wrote:
John Bachman expounded:

Do that and there is little danger to
those who consume the produce contrary to the beliefs of those who
consume insect larvae in their veggies and fruits.

While I don't have insect larvae in any of my veggies or fruit
(contrary to your misinformation) I'd rather eat them than produce
doused in chemicals.


It's a matter of degree, doncha think?

Bob

For some people, it is a matter of religious practice. I learned, on
last trip to Israel, that people who keep very Kosher will buy only
bagged greens that have a certification. Meaning that they have
been washed so thoroughly that no living critters are left on the
greens.

No amount of washing will remove e-coli.

--
Travis in Shoreline Washington

John Bachman expounded:

On the other side are the organic Islamists who believe that their way
is the only way and every one else should be killed. BS.

Speaking of BS, oh tolerant one, no one here suggested anything of the
sort. But you. As for your beloved chemicals, I don't give a rats
ass if you bathe in them, Just don't let them near mine or my
family's food.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:05:31 -0400, John Bachman
wrote:

Absolutely. I know what I do on my property. I am trained and
licensed to apply controlled substances and follow all of the rules
(READ THE LABEL).

That is very different from what happens on a commercial farm where
the owner is dependent upon the hired help doing the right thing. My
experience is that farmers want their workers to do the right thing
but that may or may not happen. On my place (and I sell some of my
produce) it is done by the book because I am the guy doing it.

On the other side are the organic Islamists who believe that their way
is the only way and every one else should be killed. BS.

I raise quality products using IPM methods and am proud of what I do
and will not accept unreasonable criticism form the organic Islamists.

John


Why are you being so extreme here? Personally I don't care what you
use. I am not an organic Islamist *which is very offensive to all the
Islamists who are tender, loving people.*

I am organic, you may have called me an extremist a few years ago. I
cleaved to the organic model. I still so, but for much different
reasons. The way I garden is the only way I want to garden. I've
given up trying to convince others.

Take it down a notch, or are those chemical applications starting to
give you nerve damage?

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 08:05:35 GMT, "Travis M."
wrote:

"Persephone" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:59:00 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

Ann wrote:
John Bachman expounded:

Do that and there is little danger to
those who consume the produce contrary to the beliefs of those who
consume insect larvae in their veggies and fruits.

While I don't have insect larvae in any of my veggies or fruit
(contrary to your misinformation) I'd rather eat them than produce
doused in chemicals.


It's a matter of degree, doncha think?

Bob

For some people, it is a matter of religious practice. I learned, on
last trip to Israel, that people who keep very Kosher will buy only
bagged greens that have a certification. Meaning that they have
been washed so thoroughly that no living critters are left on the
greens.

No amount of washing will remove e-coli.

Maybe I have it wrong. You raise an interesting point. Inquiring
minds...I will inquire what else is involved in the "kosher"
certification for bagged greens, and will post.

Persephone

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:30:55 -0700, Persephone wrote:

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 08:05:35 GMT, "Travis M."
wrote:

"Persephone" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:59:00 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

Ann wrote:
John Bachman expounded:

Do that and there is little danger to
those who consume the produce contrary to the beliefs of those who
consume insect larvae in their veggies and fruits.

While I don't have insect larvae in any of my veggies or fruit
(contrary to your misinformation) I'd rather eat them than produce
doused in chemicals.


It's a matter of degree, doncha think?

Bob

For some people, it is a matter of religious practice. I learned, on
last trip to Israel, that people who keep very Kosher will buy only
bagged greens that have a certification. Meaning that they have
been washed so thoroughly that no living critters are left on the
greens.

No amount of washing will remove e-coli.

Maybe I have it wrong. You raise an interesting point. Inquiring
minds...I will inquire what else is involved in the "kosher"
certification for bagged greens, and will post.

Persephone

OK, I'm informed that the kosher certification involves power washing
and some visual inspection. Kashrut has nothing to do with
microscopic critters like e-coli, so two issues have been
confabulated.

Persephone

On Apr 28, 6:31 am, Jangchub wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:05:31 -0400, John Bachman





wrote:
Absolutely. I know what I do on my property. I am trained and
licensed to apply controlled substances and follow all of the rules
(READ THE LABEL).

That is very different from what happens on a commercial farm where
the owner is dependent upon the hired help doing the right thing. My
experience is that farmers want their workers to do the right thing
but that may or may not happen. On my place (and I sell some of my
produce) it is done by the book because I am the guy doing it.

On the other side are the organic Islamists who believe that their way
is the only way and every one else should be killed. BS.

I raise quality products using IPM methods and am proud of what I do
and will not accept unreasonable criticism form the organic Islamists.

John

Why are you being so extreme here? Personally I don't care what you
use. I am not an organic Islamist *which is very offensive to all the
Islamists who are tender, loving people.*

I am organic, you may have called me an extremist a few years ago. I
cleaved to the organic model. I still so, but for much different
reasons. The way I garden is the only way I want to garden. I've
given up trying to convince others.

Take it down a notch, or are those chemical applications starting to
give you nerve damage?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well said Jangchub. I strive to be a civil gentleman and to me it
would be a compliment to be called an Islamist, Muslim, Jew, Catholic,
Christian or atheist. Or gardener.

With all respect to Jim's heart health, a little hard work won't kill
ya! We're talking about may 8 hours of work to clear the weeds in the
area which can be done over several days. A hundred dollars of
chemicals or $100 of labor. You choose.

A chemical farm may be productive and efficient, not so for a chemical
home garden or herb garden. Buying organic vegetables and fruits at
the store and putting harmful herbicides and pesticides in the same
shopping cart doesn't make much sense. Especially if you are already
ailing from age and the frailties of the human body. Chemical risks
for productivity is one thing, chemical risks for more leisure time,
is another. Ironically, many of us use our leisure time to work out
in the gym or take walks, play tennis, golf or basketball because our
lives are otherwise too sedentary. If we practice polyculture
techniques, as promoted by permaculture advocates, we can double or
triple the productivity in our herb gardens or on the farm with no
harsh chemicals.

This thought is explored more thoroughtly at weedtwister.com/
weed_twister_vs_roundup.htm.

-----
At peace with weeds! (and people of all religions and philosophies)
(and people who hate hard work - it's your life to live as you wish)

Pesticides
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/spring.html

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:47:53 -0700, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:

snipped early discussion
I wouldn't till it because that will awaken dormant weed seeds that are
just waiting for the ground to be disturbed. Let the earthworms till it
for you. (or till it next year after you've gardened it for a year and
kept it weeded by hand)

Both the garden plot and the compost are teaming with worms. I like
worms.
(Neighbors think I'm wierd.)

If the grand kids were here (Oregon) instead of Virginia, they'd be
learning that
the "funnest" use of worms is fishingn not farming.

My concern re the Roundup is that as I understand it it is not a soil
sterilant, and
thats the way I want it to be, i.e. kill the crap and not sterilize the
soil.

G*dda*n morning glory blows in from across back fence neighbor's yard
and I hate it,
hate it, hate it, do you hear!

(Did I tell you some eighbors think I'm wierd?) BFG


You are dealing with 3 different situations and looking for one
solution. It does not exist.

Roundup will kill all growing vegetation, regardless of weed, grass or
veggie.

Weed-B-Gone will kill all broadleaf growing vegetation but will not
affect grasses.

Neither of those will affect ungerminated weed seeds in the ground
waiting their time. You need a pre-emergent herbicide (Dacthol or
Dactrinol for instance) to do that but it will also kill any veggie
seeds that you plant for the next month or so.

So, you makes your choices and pays your price.

Be sure to read the label of whatever you choose and follow its
instructions to the letter. Do that and there is little danger to
those who consume the produce contrary to the beliefs of those who
consume insect larvae in their veggies and fruits.

John

Cover the area with 4 - 6mm clear poly (the stuff they use for vapor barrier
under a slab). It will bake/frey whatever vegitation that is under the poly
and will kill any fungal disease that might be in the area. Much better IMHO
than using chemicals.


"Travis M." wrote:

"jJim McLaughlin" wrote in message
...
Portland Oregon area.

I need to kill a lot of weeds in a 24' x 16 ' rectangular bed quickly
and then replant by
15 May with both seed plant seeds and starter plants.

Vecause of illness last fall, I didn't get te weed fabric covering on,
so I have more weeds
than I can shake a stick at.

These are going to be veggies.

After the weeds are killed, 'll shoveling on 62 Cu. Ft. of composted
grass clippings and dried
brown leaves that have been "cooking" for about 4 - 5 years.

The compost and the dead weeds will be rotilled in before new plants
are introduced.

Weed B Gone?

Roundup?

Other ideas?

(Don't say hand weed. Not an option. Remnants of heart issues fom
last fall.)



TIA.


Weed-Be-Gone will only kill broad leafed weeds it will not kill grass so
if you have grass also use Round-Up.

On Apr 27, 9:30 am, Lar wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

No chemical has ever or will ever be tested for safety in humans. Hire a

If you mean humans used as pesticide "test animals" sure they have.

That's why we haven't stopped illegal alien migrant farm workers from
coming in.

On Apr 26, 2:22 pm, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:
Portland Oregon area.

I need to kill a lot of weeds in a 24' x 16 ' rectangular bed quickly
and then replant by
15 May with both seed plant seeds and starter plants.

Vecause of illness last fall, I didn't get te weed fabric covering on,
so I have more weeds
than I can shake a stick at.

These are going to be veggies.

After the weeds are killed, 'll shoveling on 62 Cu. Ft. of composted
grass clippings and dried
brown leaves that have been "cooking" for about 4 - 5 years.

The compost and the dead weeds will be rotilled in before new plants are
introduced.

Weed B Gone?

Roundup?

Other ideas?

(Don't say hand weed. Not an option. Remnants of heart issues fom last
fall.)

TIA.

I've often had bare soil I couldn't get to in time to prevent weeds
before gardening; I tried the clear plastic "solarization" technique
but the weeds just grew under the plastic. Last year when they got
like 4 feet tall, and thick as hell, I just sprayed liberally with
Roundup and it worked amazingly. Grew vegetables shortly thereafter.
There's some threads here on toxicity of Roundup you might want to
check, just to be paranoid.

On May 15, 11:49 am, z wrote:
On Apr 27, 9:30 am, Lar wrote:

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

No chemical has ever or will ever be tested for safety in humans. Hire a

If you mean humans used as pesticide "test animals" sure they have.

That's why we haven't stopped illegal alien migrant farm workers from
coming in.

Farming is an industry like coal mining or diamond mining that is
economically based on the exploitation of labor like beasts of
burden. New methods and chemicals may reduce labor, but also expose
workers to higher risks. New mechanical tools may also reduce labor
and health risks, but sometimes the benefit is questionable. An
interesting controversy has been recently exposed over the use of a
bedweeder tractor or flat bed weeder where workers pull weeds while
laying down on cots. This story from a Spanish newspaper is discussed
on ergonica.com/hand_weeder_science.htm. But that's another story...

Be kind to workers who handle your food and they will also be kind to
you.

-----
At peace with weeds....