I have been hearing about how commerical bee people have lost a lot of
their hives. Many of these hives are transported for pollination. What
was I was wondering is if these dieoff affects "local native" bees
that are not part of commerical operations. I remember in my area a
number of years ago there was a problem with the death of large
numbers of bees, and I seemed to have fewer tomatoes, and it also
affected my neighbors.
Has anyone any thoughts about this?

Thanks

Tom

" wrote:

|I have been hearing about how commerical bee people have lost a lot of
|their hives. Many of these hives are transported for pollination. What
|was I was wondering is if these dieoff affects "local native" bees
|that are not part of commerical operations. I remember in my area a
|number of years ago there was a problem with the death of large
|numbers of bees, and I seemed to have fewer tomatoes, and it also
|affected my neighbors.
|Has anyone any thoughts about this?
|
|Thanks
|
|Tom

I'm not sure how one would distinguish native from "kept" bees but I'd like to
know.

I have Blue Orchard (Mason) bees nesting close to my plum tree. They are said to
be much more efficient pollinators than honey bees, yet I don't see them among
the plum blossoms. I do see much coming & going around the nesting "condos" but
they buzz away so quickly I can't see where they go.

The plums seem to be pollinated by much smaller wasp-like insects (and maybe
ants?)

I think manually shaking tomato plants should help in the absence of live (well,
smaller than you) pollinators.

Alexander

On 2 May 2007 11:06:47 -0700, "
wrote:

I have been hearing about how commerical bee people have lost a lot of
their hives. Many of these hives are transported for pollination. What
was I was wondering is if these dieoff affects "local native" bees
that are not part of commerical operations. I remember in my area a
number of years ago there was a problem with the death of large
numbers of bees, and I seemed to have fewer tomatoes, and it also
affected my neighbors.
Has anyone any thoughts about this?

My beekeeping friend tells me that there are no "native" bees. The
only ones in the wild are those who have swarmed and escaped from the
beekeepers.

The mite problem a few years ago wiped out all wild bees. Once
beekeepers started using resistant varieties those that escaped began
to re-establish "wild" colonies.

I suspect, but do not know for sure, that the escaped bees are also
subject to same problems as their sisters still in capitivity by the
beekeepers.

My friend's favorite theory is that it is a nutrition problem worsened
by the practices of putting colonies in the middle of acres and acres
of only one source of nutrition. That nutrition imbalance stresses
the colony and makes it more susceptible to all of the other problems
that bees have to contend with.

John

only the female and the male ants have wings that are only used during
mating, once they've dont that they lose the wings.


The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html
AD World
http://www.adworld.netfirms.com/


Alexander Miller @dot.dot.dot wrote in message
...
" wrote:

|I have been hearing about how commerical bee people have lost a lot of
|their hives. Many of these hives are transported for pollination. What
|was I was wondering is if these dieoff affects "local native" bees
|that are not part of commerical operations. I remember in my area a
|number of years ago there was a problem with the death of large
|numbers of bees, and I seemed to have fewer tomatoes, and it also
|affected my neighbors.
|Has anyone any thoughts about this?
|
|Thanks
|
|Tom

I'm not sure how one would distinguish native from "kept" bees but I'd
like to
know.

I have Blue Orchard (Mason) bees nesting close to my plum tree. They are
said to
be much more efficient pollinators than honey bees, yet I don't see them
among
the plum blossoms. I do see much coming & going around the nesting
"condos" but
they buzz away so quickly I can't see where they go.

The plums seem to be pollinated by much smaller wasp-like insects (and
maybe
ants?)

I think manually shaking tomato plants should help in the absence of live
(well,
smaller than you) pollinators.

Alexander

| The plums seem to be pollinated by much smaller wasp-like insects (and
| maybe ants?)

|only the female and the male ants have wings that are only used during
|mating, once they've dont that they lose the wings.

The ones in my tree have legs.

Alexander

John Bachman wrote:
The mite problem a few years ago wiped out all wild bees.

Not sure this is true everywhere. I recall reading a few years back that
Vancouver Island was free of those mites and therefor a major source of
uninfected bees. I believe the mites eventually arrived. Whether all wild bees
on the island were wiped out, I don't know. Could be though.

Alexander

"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On 2 May 2007 11:06:47 -0700, "
wrote:

I have been hearing about how commerical bee people have lost a lot of
their hives. Many of these hives are transported for pollination. What
was I was wondering is if these dieoff affects "local native" bees
that are not part of commerical operations. I remember in my area a
number of years ago there was a problem with the death of large
numbers of bees, and I seemed to have fewer tomatoes, and it also
affected my neighbors.
Has anyone any thoughts about this?

My beekeeping friend tells me that there are no "native" bees. The
only ones in the wild are those who have swarmed and escaped from the
beekeepers.

The mite problem a few years ago wiped out all wild bees. Once
beekeepers started using resistant varieties those that escaped began
to re-establish "wild" colonies.

I suspect, but do not know for sure, that the escaped bees are also
subject to same problems as their sisters still in capitivity by the
beekeepers.

My friend's favorite theory is that it is a nutrition problem worsened
by the practices of putting colonies in the middle of acres and acres
of only one source of nutrition. That nutrition imbalance stresses
the colony and makes it more susceptible to all of the other problems
that bees have to contend with.


A couple of resources about "native" bees.

http://www.birdsamore.com/critters/bees.htm
http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/nativebee.html

--
Travis in Shoreline Washington

John Bachman expounded:

My beekeeping friend tells me that there are no "native" bees. The
only ones in the wild are those who have swarmed and escaped from the
beekeepers.

This is true, our honeybees are european natives brought here by the
colonists and other immigrants throughout the years.

The mite problem a few years ago wiped out all wild bees. Once
beekeepers started using resistant varieties those that escaped began
to re-establish "wild" colonies.

All the wild bees weren't wiped out, but most were. Many of the
'resistant varieties' actually developed out in the wild, were
captured and used in breeding programs.

I suspect, but do not know for sure, that the escaped bees are also
subject to same problems as their sisters still in capitivity by the
beekeepers.

Depends on the cause. If it turns out to be chemical related in their
comb, they may not have quite as many problems because a beek isn't
putting miticides into their hive. If it's due to chemicals we're
using on our crops, then yes, they may have the same issues.

My friend's favorite theory is that it is a nutrition problem worsened
by the practices of putting colonies in the middle of acres and acres
of only one source of nutrition. That nutrition imbalance stresses
the colony and makes it more susceptible to all of the other problems
that bees have to contend with.

Migratory beeks seems to be having more problems than most, but the
jury is still out. The best all-around source of current info is
he http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/ColonyCollapseDisorder.html
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

On May 2, 12:53 pm, John Bachman
wrote:

My beekeeping friend tells me that there are no "native" bees. The
only ones in the wild are those who have swarmed and escaped from the
beekeepers.
I'm sorry but your friend is mistaken.
There are not only native bees, but lots of them! Calif is estimated
to have
about 1500 species of native bees.There are from 3500-4000 species in
the
US. (Fremontia vol 30 July-Oct 2002)
These are not the domesticated "honey bee" which was imported several
hundred years ago from Europe; they are not "native" bees.

The mite problem a few years ago wiped out all wild bees.
Some places it wiped out honey bees, Apis mellifera, but there are
wild colonies of honey bees still to be found here in No Calif. There
was
an article in our newspaper this past week about a family with a swarm
of
honey bees in their front yard.

I suspect, but do not know for sure, that the escaped bees are also
subject to same problems as their sisters still in capitivity by the
beekeepers.
Escaped or Feral honey bees can have the same problem mainly
from the fact that they are colony forming. Most of the native bees
are
solitary, and do not form colonies.

Some of the common native bees are Bumblebees, Carpenter
bees, Sweat bees, Leafcutter bees, Mason, and Orchard bees.
Many people have heard of these. One other that I see here is
a Burrowing bee.

The sources given by Travis are really good ones, Check them out
Emilie

On May 3, 12:24 am, "Travis M." wrote:


A couple of resources about "native" bees.

http://www.birdsamore.com/critters/bees.htm
http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/nativebee.html

--
Travis in Shoreline Washington

Those are good sources Travis,
Thank you
Em

On 3 May 2007 15:34:46 -0700, mleblanca wrote:

On May 2, 12:53 pm, John Bachman
wrote:

My beekeeping friend tells me that there are no "native" bees. The
only ones in the wild are those who have swarmed and escaped from the
beekeepers.
I'm sorry but your friend is mistaken.
There are not only native bees, but lots of them! Calif is estimated
to have
about 1500 species of native bees.There are from 3500-4000 species in
the
US. (Fremontia vol 30 July-Oct 2002)
These are not the domesticated "honey bee" which was imported several
hundred years ago from Europe; they are not "native" bees.

The mite problem a few years ago wiped out all wild bees.
Some places it wiped out honey bees, Apis mellifera, but there are
wild colonies of honey bees still to be found here in No Calif. There
was
an article in our newspaper this past week about a family with a swarm
of
honey bees in their front yard.

I suspect, but do not know for sure, that the escaped bees are also
subject to same problems as their sisters still in capitivity by the
beekeepers.
Escaped or Feral honey bees can have the same problem mainly
from the fact that they are colony forming. Most of the native bees
are
solitary, and do not form colonies.

Some of the common native bees are Bumblebees, Carpenter
bees, Sweat bees, Leafcutter bees, Mason, and Orchard bees.
Many people have heard of these. One other that I see here is
a Burrowing bee.

The sources given by Travis are really good ones, Check them out
Emilie
I should have been more concise. I am in NH and the "wild" bees here
were certainly wiped out by the mite problem. That may not have been
true in other parts of the country and it appears that California has
a thriving wild population.

John

Charlie wrote in :

On 2 May 2007 11:06:47 -0700, "
wrote:

I have been hearing about how commerical bee people have lost a lot of
their hives. Many of these hives are transported for pollination. What
was I was wondering is if these dieoff affects "local native" bees
that are not part of commerical operations. I remember in my area a
number of years ago there was a problem with the death of large
numbers of bees, and I seemed to have fewer tomatoes, and it also
affected my neighbors.
Has anyone any thoughts about this?

Thanks

Tom



http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/03/952/

Few, if any commercial operations in my area, and I have seen damn few
honeybees in my garden for the last three years.

This begs the questions: Have we become too dependant upon commercial
and wild honeybees? Have we infected the native populations with our
selective overuse of kept colonies? Have we killed off the many other
pollinators with the widespread use of pesticides? What about GM
crops? Are these affecting both commercial hives, wild colonies and
the myriad of other pollinators? what about the road pollution and
stress hives suffer whilst being transported?

What about the theories that cell and microwave radiation is
disorienting the bees?

The problem is us, we caused it, but how? Rest assured the blame will
be laid upon something other than us.

Doesn't matter who is to blame, we better get our s**t together and
stop crapping in our own nest.

.....or maybe it's just too damn late and our own greed has finally
killed us.

Charlie


Well, while everyone is having a hard time sleeping, anyway, here's some
more fun:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/05/1819327.php



Effects of EMFs on Birds, Bees, Bat-Rays, Butterflies & Buzzards

Microwaves and Insects
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/1448681/

Effects of EMFs on Birds, Bees, Bat-Rays, Butterflies & Buzzards
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/1369852/

Mobile phones blamed for sparrow deaths
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/1370183/

Evidence of a conection between Sparrow decline and the introduction of
Phone mast GSM
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/1369577/

The sparrows of London
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/1368310/

Bird on a wire theory needs closer look in disease watch
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/1158189/

Where have all the sparrows gone?
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/1147135/

Pulsed microwave radiation and wildlife - Are Cell Phones Wiping Out
Sparrows?
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/926007/

Spanish paper on RF effects on birds
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/904106/

Birds suffer from biological effects of GSM, 3G (UMTS), DECT, WIFI, TETRA
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/900299/

Adverse Bioeffects on Animals near a New Zealand Radio Transmitter
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/432402/

Mobile phone mast blamed for vanishing pigeons
http://omega.twoday.net/stories/286416/

And another one...

Deserted beehives, starving young stun scientists

By Dan Vergano and Patrick O'Driscoll, USA TODAY Tue May 1, 7:08 AM ET

"The bees were gone," David Hackenberg says. "The honey was still there.
There's young brood (eggs) still in the hive. Bees just don't do that."
ADVERTISEMENT

On that November night last year in the Florida field where he wintered
his bees, Hackenberg found 400 hives empty. Another 30 hives were
"disappearing, dwindling or whatever you want to call it," and their bees
were "full of a fungus nobody's ever seen before."

The discovery by Hackenberg, 58, a beekeeper from Lewisburg, Pa., was the
first buzz about a plague that now afflicts 27 states, from the East
Coast to the West. Beekeepers report losses of 30% to 90% of their
honeybee hives, according to a Congressional Research Service study in
March. Some report total losses.

Now a nationwide investigation, congressional panels and last week's U.S.
Department of Agriculture scientific workshop swarm around the newly
named "colony collapse disorder." Says the USDA's Kevin Hackett, "With
more dead and weakened colonies, the odds are building up for real
problems."

Busy bees

The $15-billion-a-year honeybee industry is about more than honey: The
nimble insects pollinate 90% to 100% of at least 19 kinds of fruits,
vegetables and nuts nationwide, from almonds and apples to onions and
broccoli.

"Basically, everything fun and nutritious on your table - fruits, nuts,
berries, everything but the grains - require bee pollinators," Hackett
says.

Beekeepers, who travel nationwide supplying pollinators to farmers, have
been losing honeybees for a long time, mostly a result of suburbs
snapping up habitat and the invasion in the 1980s of two foreign
parasitic mite species. As a result, bee colonies have declined 60% since
1947, from an estimated 5.9 million to 2.4 million, says entomologist May
Berenbaum of the University of Illinois.

Each year, in fact, the bee industry supplies at least 1 million queens
and packages of bees to replace lost hives, according to a 2006
National Research Council report. And sudden losses of hives have been
reported since the 1800s.

But colony collapse disorder differs from past outbreaks:

•Instead of dying in place, the bees abandon the hives, leaving behind
the queen and young bees.

•Remaining bees eat sparsely and suffer the symptoms - high levels of
bacteria, viruses and fungi in the guts - seen by Hackenberg.

•Collapses can occur within two days, Hackett says.

•Parasites wait unusually long to invade abandoned hives.

Daniel Weaver, head of the 1,500-member American Beekeeping Federation,
estimates that about 600,000 of 2 million hives (a more conservative
number than other estimates) nationwide have been lost.

Weaver, of Navasota, Texas, says his hives have been spared the mystery
affliction so far. "But if we go into another winter without
understanding what's going on, the risk of a more devastating effect on
beekeepers is a real possibility," he says.

Fittingly, in The Cherry Orchard, physician/playwright Anton Chekhov
observed that when people offer many remedies for an illness, you can be
sure it is incurable.

If so, the bees are in trouble. A colony collapse disorder working group
based at Pennsylvania State University has become a central clearinghouse
for all the suspected causes, which include:

•An overload of parasites, such as bloodsucking varroa mites, that have
ravaged bees. The parasites reportedly spread to Hawaii only last week.

•Pesticide contamination. Hotly debated suspicion centers on whether
"neonicotinoid" insecticides interfere with the foraging behavior of
bees, leading them to abandon their hives.

•Fungal diseases such as Nosema ceranae, which is blamed for big bee
losses in Spain. It was spotted by University of California-San Francisco
researchers who were examining sample dead bees last week.

•The rigors of traveling in trucks from crop to crop.

A complex problem

"We may have a perfect storm of many problems combining to kill the
bees," Hackett says. And bees are social animals, who cue each other
through "bee dances" to find food. "Something could be just disrupting
bee society and causing the problem. That's very difficult to tease out."

Weaver says the beekeeper federation is "bombarded with lots of
interesting theories," including "far-fetched ideas like cellphones," the
notion that radio waves from mobile phones are zapping the bees'
direction-sensing abilities.

"But right now there's not a lot of evidence to support any of these
theories," Weaver says. "We think science is the only way to get to the
bottom of this."

The USDA spends about $9 million a year on bee research, Hackett says,
about half of it focused on breeding bees resistant to mites. California
is undertaking a five-year, $5 million project to examine insecticides,
hive care and transport as well, he says.

Weaver says researchers need perhaps $50 million over the next five years
to cover studies, deeper analysis of the "leading suspects" and a
national surveillance system.

"Creating healthier bees, with a good diet, better able to fight disease
is the best thing we can do right now," Hackett says. Otherwise, "when
you sit down to dinner, the question will be what sort of grain do you
want - corn or wheat or rice - because that's about all the choice we'll
have left."

Charlie wrote in :

On Fri, 4 May 2007 11:47:22 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:


Well, while everyone is having a hard time sleeping, anyway, here's
some
more fun:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/05/1819327.php

snip

Ahhh, good morning to you as well! Thanks for the cheery start to the
day..... and the links and articles!

Bee Careful
Charlie


Well, hell, if everyone is going to get whipped into a frenzy, ya might
as well go for froth and foam and clawing of eyeballs...