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#91
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
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#92
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
Hmmm .... My 2 cents.
My thinking goes likes this. I like my modern technological life. I like my computers, cars, lights, HBO and modern medical techniques. I refuse to live in a cave. Street maybe, if I keep spending the way I am Solar and wind energy together is too expensive for the small amount of electricity one receives. In order to get large amounts of energy one has to destroy something to get it: be it coal, nuclear, Fusion is just a dream a false hope, wood or any other agricultural source. If one (ok the world) uses agricultural sources, bread will be twenty dollars a loaf, greater starvation among the populated world. Coal, CO2 scrubbers still leaves toxic waste in our land fills. Hydrogen, needs electricity to extract from water. Bio-mass - Agicultural, kiss all forest good-by, not just the rain forest. If .... If and only if they can make them safe and put its waste in outer space, are the breeder nuclear reactors. "The old saying - Is anything safe? NO". The only way to have a clean, healthy earth for everyone on this planet, IS POPULATION REDUCTION. ie: make bombs not babies (ok, ok, forget the reverse pun of the sixty's vietnam) just stop breeding like humans. However, not sure of the future. My next truck will have an E85 engine. I have read some where that all one has to do is combine 85 gallons of ethanal with 15 gallons of regular gas. Buy a still, I have the 10 acres of land to raise corn and have 6 acres of woods (energy source for the still). Its all about me, let the world starve. Conservation is a lost cause without population reduction. I am single with no kids. With no social life one has the time to do the things listed above. So I agree with the original poster: Home Gardening "is" Becoming Even More Imperative. Enjoy Life ......... Dan. In article , Billy Rose wrote: In article , wrote: electrical plugs just put off the problem. somebody somewhere gotta burn something to make the electricity. True, but then you can use bio-mass and your not burning fossil fuel. Additionally, you have the option of scrubbing the smoke stack to sequester the CO2 and reduce the over all amount in the atmosphere. if they are making hydrogen from water, fine, if it is nuclear less than ideal. About as far as you can get from ideal, IMHO. In 30 - 40 years, fusion reactors should be viable with lots of safe, clean energy. Why mess up the planet for a 40 year fix, when it creates more problems than it solves? platinum is typically used to catalyze the splitting of water, used with an electrical current in an ionic but not necessarily acidic environment. The April '07 issue of Scientific American addresses the issue of hydrogen storage. The choices are (1) compressed hyrdogen, (2) liquid hydrogen (Ever see the demonstration where they dip a rose into liquid helium? Same kinda deal) (3) reversible "hydrogen metal hydrides" (they generate H+ in response to heat and a catalyst and, they need to be removed to recharge) and (4) "hydrogen adsorbents" that work like sponges (don't need to be removed to recharge but research just beginning). Unfortunately, the full article isn't available on line without a subscription but you could find it at the library and, the graphics are very helpful in helping understand the problems involved. Ingrid On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:35:35 -0700, Billy Rose - Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly) wrote: Even more practical would be the electric plug in vehicle. -- Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically. |
#93
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article
, "Dan L." wrote: Hmmm .... My 2 cents. Uh, nice string of pronouncements Dan. Usually it is nice if you can give them a little authority, names, places, logic based on an acceptable premise. You know, something like that would have been nice, instead of coming down the mountain with your clay tablets. (Yeah, I know, sarcastic, people have told me that. My thinking goes likes this. I like my modern technological life. I like my computers, cars, lights, HBO and modern medical techniques. I refuse to live in a cave. Street maybe, if I keep spending the way I am Keep your technology but Americans presently use 25% of the worlds energy. That will change. We can look forward to a diminished way of life. Sorry Dave. (Jeeze, I sound like Hal, the computer) The alternative is to send out the troops with bayonets fixed and subjugate the world. Since we are not alone in the nuclear club, some of those suckers may not want to go down easily. How do you feel about trying to swim in the non-radioactive end of the pool? Solar and wind energy together is too expensive for the small amount of electricity one receives. In order to get large amounts of energy one has to destroy something to get it: be it coal, nuclear, Fusion is just a dream a false hope, wood or any other agricultural source. If one (ok the world) uses agricultural sources, bread will be twenty dollars a loaf, greater starvation among the populated world. Presently, wind, photovoltaic, and hydro power (including tides) is too little and more expensive than fossil fuel (if you don't count the social impact of global warming i.e. our extinction). Someone must have forgotten to tell the international consortium that is constructing a fusion reactor in France that Dave said it couldn't be done. Scrubbing smoke stacks with water and calcium hydroxide Ca(OH)2 gives you calcium carbonate and water. Chalk, Dave, chalk doesn't sound so polluting, does it? We are already over producing food (look at you waistline) and demographics say that the population of the planet should drop to replacement levels by 2050. Western Europe has been encouraging it's citizens to have more babies because the indigenous populations are declining. Pretty much the same deal for all industrialized nations. Coal, CO2 scrubbers still leaves toxic waste in our land fills. Hydrogen, needs electricity to extract from water. Bio-mass - Agicultural, kiss all forest good-by, not just the rain forest. There is even a new nut being introduced into Africa as a crop that grows well on dry marginally useful agricultural land that is 40% oil. We can keep our forests. Need to plant more actually. Maybe you will have to do without quite so much beef. That's all. If .... If and only if they can make them safe and put its waste in outer space, are the breeder nuclear reactors. "The old saying - Is anything safe? NO". Great way to live, with the sword of Damocles hanging over our heads. Thanks, but no. Fission can be buffed, tweaked, and polished but it is just too freaking dangerous. That argument aside, how are you going to transfer the energy down, by microwaves and fry migratory birds? The only way to have a clean, healthy earth for everyone on this planet, IS POPULATION REDUCTION. ie: make bombs not babies (ok, ok, forget the reverse pun of the sixty's vietnam) just stop breeding like humans. See above. Large families only make sense in in subsistence farming. However, not sure of the future. My next truck will have an E85 engine. I have read some where that all one has to do is combine 85 gallons of ethanal with 15 gallons of regular gas. Buy a still, I have the 10 acres of land to raise corn and have 6 acres of woods (energy source for the still). You haven't been reading this new group long, have you? Corn is grown with natural gas and petroleum. It is not efficient unless you are an oil company but not for consumers. Its all about me, let the world starve. Conservation is a lost cause without population reduction. I am single with no kids. With no social life one has the time to do the things listed above. A Cassandra in the wilderness, wandering in a hopeless quest, fade to black, the lights come up and everybody stands and goes home. Quite a martyr syndrome you have there Dave. You really need to lighten up there Dave. Ya know. Girls really like guys that can make them laugh. So I agree with the original poster: Home Gardening "is" Becoming Even More Imperative. Enjoy Life ......... Dan. I will. Thanks Dave. You really should read a book about this stuff some day. Life is a tight rope, but it's doable. In article , Billy Rose wrote: In article , wrote: electrical plugs just put off the problem. somebody somewhere gotta burn something to make the electricity. True, but then you can use bio-mass and your not burning fossil fuel. Additionally, you have the option of scrubbing the smoke stack to sequester the CO2 and reduce the over all amount in the atmosphere. if they are making hydrogen from water, fine, if it is nuclear less than ideal. About as far as you can get from ideal, IMHO. In 30 - 40 years, fusion reactors should be viable with lots of safe, clean energy. Why mess up the planet for a 40 year fix, when it creates more problems than it solves? platinum is typically used to catalyze the splitting of water, used with an electrical current in an ionic but not necessarily acidic environment. The April '07 issue of Scientific American addresses the issue of hydrogen storage. The choices are (1) compressed hyrdogen, (2) liquid hydrogen (Ever see the demonstration where they dip a rose into liquid helium? Same kinda deal) (3) reversible "hydrogen metal hydrides" (they generate H+ in response to heat and a catalyst and, they need to be removed to recharge) and (4) "hydrogen adsorbents" that work like sponges (don't need to be removed to recharge but research just beginning). Unfortunately, the full article isn't available on line without a subscription but you could find it at the library and, the graphics are very helpful in helping understand the problems involved. Ingrid On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:35:35 -0700, Billy Rose - Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly) |
#94
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:08:18 -0700, Billy Rose
wrote: About as far as you can get from ideal, IMHO. In 30 - 40 years, fusion reactors should be viable with lots of safe, clean energy. Why mess up the planet for a 40 year fix, when it creates more problems than it solves? A quick question. Is there a possibility of using waste from nuclear plants as fuel for fusion plants? |
#95
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article ,
Pan Ohco wrote: On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:08:18 -0700, Billy Rose wrote: About as far as you can get from ideal, IMHO. In 30 - 40 years, fusion reactors should be viable with lots of safe, clean energy. Why mess up the planet for a 40 year fix, when it creates more problems than it solves? A quick question. Is there a possibility of using waste from nuclear plants as fuel for fusion plants? No. Fusion uses deuterium (an isotope of hydrogen). Two deuterium under extremely high pressure and heat to fuse together to become a molecule of helium. Two deuterium atoms have more mass than a single helium atom and according to the famous equation, E=m(CxC), the difference in mass is converted to energy. If the magnetic containment field for a fusion reactor were to collapse, the reactants would hit the wall of the containment building, cool, and become harmless. I believe there is some issue with tritium (another isotope of hydrogen) but it is of a minor concern when compared to fission reactions. - Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly) |
#96
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article
, Billy Rose wrote: Two deuterium under extremely high pressure and heat to fuse together to become a molecule of helium. Ahem, that should have read as, "Two deuterium under extremely high pressure and heat to fuse together to become an ATOM of helium." OK, everybody back to sleep. - Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly) |
#97
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article
, "Dan L." wrote: The only way to have a clean, healthy earth for everyone on this planet, IS POPULATION REDUCTION. ie: make bombs not babies (ok, ok, forget the reverse pun of the sixty's vietnam) just stop breeding like humans. That was punny. :-) And I agree that overpopulation is a serious problem, but China's answer was not the one. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
#98
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article
, Billy Rose wrote: Presently, wind, photovoltaic, and hydro power (including tides) is too little and more expensive than fossil fuel (if you don't count the social impact of global warming i.e. our extinction). Someone must have forgotten to tell the international consortium that is constructing a fusion reactor in France that Dave said it couldn't be done. Scrubbing smoke stacks with water and calcium hydroxide Ca(OH)2 gives you calcium carbonate and water. Chalk, Dave, chalk doesn't sound so polluting, does it? I vote we try for geothermal. Why can't we harvest volcanos? :-) Hydroelectric building dams is not a bad idea either, but there goes the environmental impact again... Let's outlaw incandescent lightbulbs while we are at it! -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
#99
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article ,
Pan Ohco wrote: On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:08:18 -0700, Billy Rose wrote: About as far as you can get from ideal, IMHO. In 30 - 40 years, fusion reactors should be viable with lots of safe, clean energy. Why mess up the planet for a 40 year fix, when it creates more problems than it solves? A quick question. Is there a possibility of using waste from nuclear plants as fuel for fusion plants? That stuff supposedly makes great batteries. :-) Long lasting too. Or so I've heard... What is powering the Voyager probes? They've been transmitting how many years now? -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
#100
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article
, Billy Rose wrote: In article , Pan Ohco wrote: On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:08:18 -0700, Billy Rose wrote: About as far as you can get from ideal, IMHO. In 30 - 40 years, fusion reactors should be viable with lots of safe, clean energy. Why mess up the planet for a 40 year fix, when it creates more problems than it solves? A quick question. Is there a possibility of using waste from nuclear plants as fuel for fusion plants? No. Fusion uses deuterium (an isotope of hydrogen). Two deuterium under extremely high pressure and heat to fuse together to become a molecule of helium. Two deuterium atoms have more mass than a single helium atom and according to the famous equation, E=m(CxC), the difference in mass is converted to energy. If the magnetic containment field for a fusion reactor were to collapse, the reactants would hit the wall of the containment building, cool, and become harmless. I believe there is some issue with tritium (another isotope of hydrogen) but it is of a minor concern when compared to fission reactions. - Billy Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly) Anyone see Spiderman 2? Do we really want to be creating miniature suns in our atmosphere? :-) Nevermind... that was fiction and a poor attempt at humor... -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
#101
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:57:49 -0400, "Dan L."
wrote: [...] Bio-mass - Agicultural, kiss all forest good-by, not just the rain forest. [...] Whoa, podner. Why drag the rain forest into this discussion. It has enough problems already! Industrial hemp might be the answer. My credentials: Your correspondent hasn't smoked a joint since the 60's-that-were-really-the-70's. I have no illusions that growing hemp would turn everybody on; in fact what you'd have to go through to get high on industrial hemp doesn't bear examining g. Doesn't it seem a teeny bit self-serving of candidates and the un-informed media to keep plugging corn-as-fuel with all the downsides repeatedly enumerated even in the pop media,* I'm not just talking about relatively low mileage; what about jacking up the price for cultures whose basic food comes from corn. * (not the most serious of which is that I can't find corn oil which I've used for cooking since forever...) This non-examination of industrial hemp as a source for automotive fuel is 1000% based on the enthusiastic propaganda of Big Oil, pandering to Bush's religious-nut "base", as well as to the general ignorance of Joe/Jane Beercan, who don't differentiate between marijuana and its industrial big sister, which has been used since pre-Biblical times for everything from cloth to oil. It grows on any kind of ground; requires almost no attention; is self-renewing.; doesn't drive up the price of a basic food like corn by diverting part of the crop to the Quixotic search for alternative fuel. Read up on this. There are many titles out there on the subject (full disclosu one of which I edited) which paint a dismaying picture of how Big Oil/Auto and Puritanical racists many decades ago managed to push through legislation confabulating industrial hemp with marijuana. Persephone |
#102
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
Persephone expounded:
This non-examination of industrial hemp as a source for automotive fuel is 1000% based on the enthusiastic propaganda of Big Oil, pandering to Bush's religious-nut "base", as well as to the general ignorance of Joe/Jane Beercan, who don't differentiate between marijuana and its industrial big sister, which has been used since pre-Biblical times for everything from cloth to oil. It grows on any kind of ground; requires almost no attention; is self-renewing.; doesn't drive up the price of a basic food like corn by diverting part of the crop to the Quixotic search for alternative fuel. Doesn't sound like there's much money it it - therein lies the rub. We can't have that, now, ya hear? ;- -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** |
#103
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article , Persephone
wrote: Industrial hemp might be the answer. My credentials: Your correspondent hasn't smoked a joint since the 60's-that-were-really-the-70's. I have no illusions that growing hemp would turn everybody on; in fact what you'd have to go through to get high on industrial hemp doesn't bear examining g. Not many people know that Industrial Hemp is NOT the same thing as recreational pot. Nowhere near. Anyone that has bothered to do the research would know that. It has a million and one uses. 1 acre of IH supposedly creates the same amount of usable cellulose as 10 acres of forest. It is good for fabric, paper, fuel and oil, as well as a food source from the seeds. You can thank Dupont for being one of the major players in getting it outlawed. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
#104
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article ,
Ann wrote: Persephone expounded: This non-examination of industrial hemp as a source for automotive fuel is 1000% based on the enthusiastic propaganda of Big Oil, pandering to Bush's religious-nut "base", as well as to the general ignorance of Joe/Jane Beercan, who don't differentiate between marijuana and its industrial big sister, which has been used since pre-Biblical times for everything from cloth to oil. It grows on any kind of ground; requires almost no attention; is self-renewing.; doesn't drive up the price of a basic food like corn by diverting part of the crop to the Quixotic search for alternative fuel. Doesn't sound like there's much money it it - therein lies the rub. We can't have that, now, ya hear? ;- snicker Another realist I see. ;-) Well put. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
#105
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Home Gardening Becomes Even More Imperative
In article ,
Omelet wrote: In article , Persephone wrote: Industrial hemp might be the answer. My credentials: Your correspondent hasn't smoked a joint since the 60's-that-were-really-the-70's. I have no illusions that growing hemp would turn everybody on; in fact what you'd have to go through to get high on industrial hemp doesn't bear examining g. Not many people know that Industrial Hemp is NOT the same thing as recreational pot. Nowhere near. Anyone that has bothered to do the research would know that. It has a million and one uses. 1 acre of IH supposedly creates the same amount of usable cellulose as 10 acres of forest. It is good for fabric, paper, fuel and oil, as well as a food source from the seeds. You can thank Dupont for being one of the major players in getting it outlawed. I remember seeing a TV program that discussed living treasures of Japan. One woman was revered for her Hemp cloth. Seems not only durable and comfortable but was beautiful without dyes. Bill -- S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit. |
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