"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...


WHAT??????????? He sounds like the idiots who give Bush a pass for all
his
language disasters. There are people who are somehow able to justify his
saying this:

"This process has been drug out a long time, which says to me it's
political." --George W. Bush, discussing the controversy surrounding
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez


Here's the best part - he was a local delegate to the NH Democratic
convention. And he let go a great teacher that happened to be an outspoken
Republican - for lacking "vision" in teaching. IE he attempted to teach
the
subject (grammar and writing skills) not kowtow to local politics.

C


Stupidity knows no party labels.

You'll love this: When my son was in 9th grade, he was having problems with
algebra, and the teacher repeatedly told him he didn't have time to stay
after school to answer questions. "Just read the textbook". This was not
long after the school open house, when the teacher said he encouraged kids
to come after school for extra help. So, I asked my if he wanted me to talk
to the teacher or the principal. He said no - he wanted to figure out a
solution himself. Two days later, he was still bitching, and saying that
other kids were complaining, too. The teacher apparently was unable or
unwilling to explain certain things, even in class. I explained that since
we were paying for a service and not getting it, maybe he wanted to make a
petition for the kids to sign, and take it to the principal. He brushed off
that idea, but a few days later, he pretended it was his idea. With input
from other kids, they created one that was polite and professional, but
factual.

While circulating it in the hallway, between classes, some kiss-ass kid
noticed, and told the principal that there was trouble brewing. My son and a
friend were hauled down to the principal's office. Oops. His friend was a
girl whose grandma had been the superintendent of schools, and still works
as an interim administrator for other districts while they're trying to fill
vacant positions. Very sharp lady, and to paraphrase a James Brown song, she
don't take no mess. Grandma came to school, and the kids were released from
jail. Next day, the math teacher was absent. Next day, my son came home and
said the teacher had returned, and it seemed like someone had "put new
batteries in him".

Six months later, the principal was gone, too.

My doctor uses the word "customer", not "patient", when I've asked him about
his business. I like that. Too many professions assign special words that
deflect attention from the fact that someone is being paid for a service,
and the people doing the paying are customers. Students and parents are
customers, and school employees need to be reminded of that from time to
time.

On 6/27/07 11:20 AM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...


WHAT??????????? He sounds like the idiots who give Bush a pass for all
his
language disasters. There are people who are somehow able to justify his
saying this:

"This process has been drug out a long time, which says to me it's
political." --George W. Bush, discussing the controversy surrounding
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez


Here's the best part - he was a local delegate to the NH Democratic
convention. And he let go a great teacher that happened to be an outspoken
Republican - for lacking "vision" in teaching. IE he attempted to teach
the
subject (grammar and writing skills) not kowtow to local politics.

C


Stupidity knows no party labels.

You'll love this: When my son was in 9th grade, he was having problems with
algebra, and the teacher repeatedly told him he didn't have time to stay
after school to answer questions. "Just read the textbook". This was not
long after the school open house, when the teacher said he encouraged kids
to come after school for extra help. So, I asked my if he wanted me to talk
to the teacher or the principal. He said no - he wanted to figure out a
solution himself. Two days later, he was still bitching, and saying that
other kids were complaining, too. The teacher apparently was unable or
unwilling to explain certain things, even in class. I explained that since
we were paying for a service and not getting it, maybe he wanted to make a
petition for the kids to sign, and take it to the principal. He brushed off
that idea, but a few days later, he pretended it was his idea. With input
from other kids, they created one that was polite and professional, but
factual.

While circulating it in the hallway, between classes, some kiss-ass kid
noticed, and told the principal that there was trouble brewing. My son and a
friend were hauled down to the principal's office. Oops. His friend was a
girl whose grandma had been the superintendent of schools, and still works
as an interim administrator for other districts while they're trying to fill
vacant positions. Very sharp lady, and to paraphrase a James Brown song, she
don't take no mess. Grandma came to school, and the kids were released from
jail. Next day, the math teacher was absent. Next day, my son came home and
said the teacher had returned, and it seemed like someone had "put new
batteries in him".

Six months later, the principal was gone, too.

My doctor uses the word "customer", not "patient", when I've asked him about
his business. I like that. Too many professions assign special words that
deflect attention from the fact that someone is being paid for a service,
and the people doing the paying are customers. Students and parents are
customers, and school employees need to be reminded of that from time to
time.



I wish it were that easy....
C

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 11:20 AM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...


WHAT??????????? He sounds like the idiots who give Bush a pass for all
his
language disasters. There are people who are somehow able to justify
his
saying this:

"This process has been drug out a long time, which says to me it's
political." --George W. Bush, discussing the controversy surrounding
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez


Here's the best part - he was a local delegate to the NH Democratic
convention. And he let go a great teacher that happened to be an
outspoken
Republican - for lacking "vision" in teaching. IE he attempted to teach
the
subject (grammar and writing skills) not kowtow to local politics.

C


Stupidity knows no party labels.

You'll love this: When my son was in 9th grade, he was having problems
with
algebra, and the teacher repeatedly told him he didn't have time to stay
after school to answer questions. "Just read the textbook". This was not
long after the school open house, when the teacher said he encouraged
kids
to come after school for extra help. So, I asked my if he wanted me to
talk
to the teacher or the principal. He said no - he wanted to figure out a
solution himself. Two days later, he was still bitching, and saying that
other kids were complaining, too. The teacher apparently was unable or
unwilling to explain certain things, even in class. I explained that
since
we were paying for a service and not getting it, maybe he wanted to make
a
petition for the kids to sign, and take it to the principal. He brushed
off
that idea, but a few days later, he pretended it was his idea. With input
from other kids, they created one that was polite and professional, but
factual.

While circulating it in the hallway, between classes, some kiss-ass kid
noticed, and told the principal that there was trouble brewing. My son
and a
friend were hauled down to the principal's office. Oops. His friend was a
girl whose grandma had been the superintendent of schools, and still
works
as an interim administrator for other districts while they're trying to
fill
vacant positions. Very sharp lady, and to paraphrase a James Brown song,
she
don't take no mess. Grandma came to school, and the kids were released
from
jail. Next day, the math teacher was absent. Next day, my son came home
and
said the teacher had returned, and it seemed like someone had "put new
batteries in him".

Six months later, the principal was gone, too.

My doctor uses the word "customer", not "patient", when I've asked him
about
his business. I like that. Too many professions assign special words that
deflect attention from the fact that someone is being paid for a service,
and the people doing the paying are customers. Students and parents are
customers, and school employees need to be reminded of that from time to
time.



I wish it were that easy....
C


Actually, it *IS* that easy. People get away with bullshit because they
assume that their critics are not willing to cause pain and embarrassment.
In other words, you can choose not to be a prisoner of good manners
sometimes. If you choose otherwise, you have made a conscious choice to be
dissatisfied.

On 6/27/07 2:00 PM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 11:20 AM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...


WHAT??????????? He sounds like the idiots who give Bush a pass for all
his
language disasters. There are people who are somehow able to justify
his
saying this:

"This process has been drug out a long time, which says to me it's
political." --George W. Bush, discussing the controversy surrounding
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez


Here's the best part - he was a local delegate to the NH Democratic
convention. And he let go a great teacher that happened to be an
outspoken
Republican - for lacking "vision" in teaching. IE he attempted to teach
the
subject (grammar and writing skills) not kowtow to local politics.

C


Stupidity knows no party labels.

You'll love this: When my son was in 9th grade, he was having problems
with
algebra, and the teacher repeatedly told him he didn't have time to stay
after school to answer questions. "Just read the textbook". This was not
long after the school open house, when the teacher said he encouraged
kids
to come after school for extra help. So, I asked my if he wanted me to
talk
to the teacher or the principal. He said no - he wanted to figure out a
solution himself. Two days later, he was still bitching, and saying that
other kids were complaining, too. The teacher apparently was unable or
unwilling to explain certain things, even in class. I explained that
since
we were paying for a service and not getting it, maybe he wanted to make
a
petition for the kids to sign, and take it to the principal. He brushed
off
that idea, but a few days later, he pretended it was his idea. With input
from other kids, they created one that was polite and professional, but
factual.

While circulating it in the hallway, between classes, some kiss-ass kid
noticed, and told the principal that there was trouble brewing. My son
and a
friend were hauled down to the principal's office. Oops. His friend was a
girl whose grandma had been the superintendent of schools, and still
works
as an interim administrator for other districts while they're trying to
fill
vacant positions. Very sharp lady, and to paraphrase a James Brown song,
she
don't take no mess. Grandma came to school, and the kids were released
from
jail. Next day, the math teacher was absent. Next day, my son came home
and
said the teacher had returned, and it seemed like someone had "put new
batteries in him".

Six months later, the principal was gone, too.

My doctor uses the word "customer", not "patient", when I've asked him
about
his business. I like that. Too many professions assign special words that
deflect attention from the fact that someone is being paid for a service,
and the people doing the paying are customers. Students and parents are
customers, and school employees need to be reminded of that from time to
time.



I wish it were that easy....
C


Actually, it *IS* that easy. People get away with bullshit because they
assume that their critics are not willing to cause pain and embarrassment.
In other words, you can choose not to be a prisoner of good manners
sometimes. If you choose otherwise, you have made a conscious choice to be
dissatisfied.


We won't get rid of the crappy teachers until the school board and the
superintendent stop sleeping with the teacher's union.

C

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 2:00 PM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 11:20 AM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...


WHAT??????????? He sounds like the idiots who give Bush a pass for
all
his
language disasters. There are people who are somehow able to justify
his
saying this:

"This process has been drug out a long time, which says to me it's
political." --George W. Bush, discussing the controversy surrounding
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez


Here's the best part - he was a local delegate to the NH Democratic
convention. And he let go a great teacher that happened to be an
outspoken
Republican - for lacking "vision" in teaching. IE he attempted to
teach
the
subject (grammar and writing skills) not kowtow to local politics.

C


Stupidity knows no party labels.

You'll love this: When my son was in 9th grade, he was having problems
with
algebra, and the teacher repeatedly told him he didn't have time to
stay
after school to answer questions. "Just read the textbook". This was
not
long after the school open house, when the teacher said he encouraged
kids
to come after school for extra help. So, I asked my if he wanted me to
talk
to the teacher or the principal. He said no - he wanted to figure out a
solution himself. Two days later, he was still bitching, and saying
that
other kids were complaining, too. The teacher apparently was unable or
unwilling to explain certain things, even in class. I explained that
since
we were paying for a service and not getting it, maybe he wanted to
make
a
petition for the kids to sign, and take it to the principal. He brushed
off
that idea, but a few days later, he pretended it was his idea. With
input
from other kids, they created one that was polite and professional, but
factual.

While circulating it in the hallway, between classes, some kiss-ass kid
noticed, and told the principal that there was trouble brewing. My son
and a
friend were hauled down to the principal's office. Oops. His friend was
a
girl whose grandma had been the superintendent of schools, and still
works
as an interim administrator for other districts while they're trying to
fill
vacant positions. Very sharp lady, and to paraphrase a James Brown
song,
she
don't take no mess. Grandma came to school, and the kids were released
from
jail. Next day, the math teacher was absent. Next day, my son came home
and
said the teacher had returned, and it seemed like someone had "put new
batteries in him".

Six months later, the principal was gone, too.

My doctor uses the word "customer", not "patient", when I've asked him
about
his business. I like that. Too many professions assign special words
that
deflect attention from the fact that someone is being paid for a
service,
and the people doing the paying are customers. Students and parents are
customers, and school employees need to be reminded of that from time
to
time.



I wish it were that easy....
C


Actually, it *IS* that easy. People get away with bullshit because they
assume that their critics are not willing to cause pain and
embarrassment.
In other words, you can choose not to be a prisoner of good manners
sometimes. If you choose otherwise, you have made a conscious choice to
be
dissatisfied.


We won't get rid of the crappy teachers until the school board and the
superintendent stop sleeping with the teacher's union.

C


Not true. If you're willing to cause pain and embarrassment, anyone can be
eliminated. Go to a school board meeting and get loud and rude, to the
point where they're ready to call the cops. People go through life asleep.
You need to wake them up.

On Jun 26, 1:03 pm, David wrote:
The importance of Fruit and Vegetable Juices in your Diet
Fruits and Vegetable juices can do wonder to your health,find out
here :http://www.foodone.blogspot.com


What is the point of removing all or most of the fibre before you eat
your fruit or veges? Most people in rich countries need extra fibre
not less.

As for lime JUICE saving you from scurvy, it is the vitamin C in the
limes that does the job, taking it as juice has nothing to do with
it. This was just convenient storage on a ship as it was compact and
not likely to decay as quickly outside refrigeration as whole limes,
especially in a warm damp climate that encourages moulds.

Mate give your hand a rest.

David

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 26, 1:03 pm, David wrote:
The importance of Fruit and Vegetable Juices in your Diet
Fruits and Vegetable juices can do wonder to your health,find out
here :http://www.foodone.blogspot.com


What is the point of removing all or most of the fibre before you eat
your fruit or veges? Most people in rich countries need extra fibre
not less.

As for lime JUICE saving you from scurvy, it is the vitamin C in the
limes that does the job, taking it as juice has nothing to do with
it. This was just convenient storage on a ship as it was compact and
not likely to decay as quickly outside refrigeration as whole limes,
especially in a warm damp climate that encourages moulds.

Mate give your hand a rest.

David



:-)

On 6/27/07 3:58 PM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 2:00 PM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 11:20 AM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...


WHAT??????????? He sounds like the idiots who give Bush a pass for
all
his
language disasters. There are people who are somehow able to justify
his
saying this:

"This process has been drug out a long time, which says to me it's
political." --George W. Bush, discussing the controversy surrounding
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez


Here's the best part - he was a local delegate to the NH Democratic
convention. And he let go a great teacher that happened to be an
outspoken
Republican - for lacking "vision" in teaching. IE he attempted to
teach
the
subject (grammar and writing skills) not kowtow to local politics.

C


Stupidity knows no party labels.

You'll love this: When my son was in 9th grade, he was having problems
with
algebra, and the teacher repeatedly told him he didn't have time to
stay
after school to answer questions. "Just read the textbook". This was
not
long after the school open house, when the teacher said he encouraged
kids
to come after school for extra help. So, I asked my if he wanted me to
talk
to the teacher or the principal. He said no - he wanted to figure out a
solution himself. Two days later, he was still bitching, and saying
that
other kids were complaining, too. The teacher apparently was unable or
unwilling to explain certain things, even in class. I explained that
since
we were paying for a service and not getting it, maybe he wanted to
make
a
petition for the kids to sign, and take it to the principal. He brushed
off
that idea, but a few days later, he pretended it was his idea. With
input
from other kids, they created one that was polite and professional, but
factual.

While circulating it in the hallway, between classes, some kiss-ass kid
noticed, and told the principal that there was trouble brewing. My son
and a
friend were hauled down to the principal's office. Oops. His friend was
a
girl whose grandma had been the superintendent of schools, and still
works
as an interim administrator for other districts while they're trying to
fill
vacant positions. Very sharp lady, and to paraphrase a James Brown
song,
she
don't take no mess. Grandma came to school, and the kids were released
from
jail. Next day, the math teacher was absent. Next day, my son came home
and
said the teacher had returned, and it seemed like someone had "put new
batteries in him".

Six months later, the principal was gone, too.

My doctor uses the word "customer", not "patient", when I've asked him
about
his business. I like that. Too many professions assign special words
that
deflect attention from the fact that someone is being paid for a
service,
and the people doing the paying are customers. Students and parents are
customers, and school employees need to be reminded of that from time
to
time.



I wish it were that easy....
C


Actually, it *IS* that easy. People get away with bullshit because they
assume that their critics are not willing to cause pain and
embarrassment.
In other words, you can choose not to be a prisoner of good manners
sometimes. If you choose otherwise, you have made a conscious choice to
be
dissatisfied.


We won't get rid of the crappy teachers until the school board and the
superintendent stop sleeping with the teacher's union.

C


Not true. If you're willing to cause pain and embarrassment, anyone can be
eliminated. Go to a school board meeting and get loud and rude, to the
point where they're ready to call the cops. People go through life asleep.
You need to wake them up.


Unfortunately, all the real business gets done at the "closed" sessions. At
some one's home or such.

I know that several people that have raised objections to teachers, subject
matter or books find their kids having mysterious "issues" at school.
There's a reason I'm for vouchers...

C

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 3:58 PM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 2:00 PM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 11:20 AM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...


WHAT??????????? He sounds like the idiots who give Bush a pass for
all
his
language disasters. There are people who are somehow able to
justify
his
saying this:

"This process has been drug out a long time, which says to me it's
political." --George W. Bush, discussing the controversy
surrounding
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez


Here's the best part - he was a local delegate to the NH Democratic
convention. And he let go a great teacher that happened to be an
outspoken
Republican - for lacking "vision" in teaching. IE he attempted to
teach
the
subject (grammar and writing skills) not kowtow to local politics.

C


Stupidity knows no party labels.

You'll love this: When my son was in 9th grade, he was having
problems
with
algebra, and the teacher repeatedly told him he didn't have time to
stay
after school to answer questions. "Just read the textbook". This was
not
long after the school open house, when the teacher said he encouraged
kids
to come after school for extra help. So, I asked my if he wanted me
to
talk
to the teacher or the principal. He said no - he wanted to figure out
a
solution himself. Two days later, he was still bitching, and saying
that
other kids were complaining, too. The teacher apparently was unable
or
unwilling to explain certain things, even in class. I explained that
since
we were paying for a service and not getting it, maybe he wanted to
make
a
petition for the kids to sign, and take it to the principal. He
brushed
off
that idea, but a few days later, he pretended it was his idea. With
input
from other kids, they created one that was polite and professional,
but
factual.

While circulating it in the hallway, between classes, some kiss-ass
kid
noticed, and told the principal that there was trouble brewing. My
son
and a
friend were hauled down to the principal's office. Oops. His friend
was
a
girl whose grandma had been the superintendent of schools, and still
works
as an interim administrator for other districts while they're trying
to
fill
vacant positions. Very sharp lady, and to paraphrase a James Brown
song,
she
don't take no mess. Grandma came to school, and the kids were
released
from
jail. Next day, the math teacher was absent. Next day, my son came
home
and
said the teacher had returned, and it seemed like someone had "put
new
batteries in him".

Six months later, the principal was gone, too.

My doctor uses the word "customer", not "patient", when I've asked
him
about
his business. I like that. Too many professions assign special words
that
deflect attention from the fact that someone is being paid for a
service,
and the people doing the paying are customers. Students and parents
are
customers, and school employees need to be reminded of that from time
to
time.



I wish it were that easy....
C


Actually, it *IS* that easy. People get away with bullshit because they
assume that their critics are not willing to cause pain and
embarrassment.
In other words, you can choose not to be a prisoner of good manners
sometimes. If you choose otherwise, you have made a conscious choice to
be
dissatisfied.


We won't get rid of the crappy teachers until the school board and the
superintendent stop sleeping with the teacher's union.

C


Not true. If you're willing to cause pain and embarrassment, anyone can
be
eliminated. Go to a school board meeting and get loud and rude, to the
point where they're ready to call the cops. People go through life
asleep.
You need to wake them up.


Unfortunately, all the real business gets done at the "closed" sessions.
At
some one's home or such.

I know that several people that have raised objections to teachers,
subject
matter or books find their kids having mysterious "issues" at school.
There's a reason I'm for vouchers...

C


You give up to easily. There's *always* a way to embarrass people. Walk into
the school, sit down in the classroom and tell the teacher "I'm writing a
newspaper article about incompetence, and I can't imagine a better place to
gather information than right here". You own the school, right? The teacher
is your employee. Who ever heard of a situation where employers are not
allowed to watch an employee do their work? If you get arrested, send in
another trooper.

On 6/28/07 8:03 AM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 3:58 PM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 2:00 PM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 11:20 AM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...


WHAT??????????? He sounds like the idiots who give Bush a pass for
all
his
language disasters. There are people who are somehow able to
justify
his
saying this:

"This process has been drug out a long time, which says to me it's
political." --George W. Bush, discussing the controversy
surrounding
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez


Here's the best part - he was a local delegate to the NH Democratic
convention. And he let go a great teacher that happened to be an
outspoken
Republican - for lacking "vision" in teaching. IE he attempted to
teach
the
subject (grammar and writing skills) not kowtow to local politics.

C


Stupidity knows no party labels.

You'll love this: When my son was in 9th grade, he was having
problems
with
algebra, and the teacher repeatedly told him he didn't have time to
stay
after school to answer questions. "Just read the textbook". This was
not
long after the school open house, when the teacher said he encouraged
kids
to come after school for extra help. So, I asked my if he wanted me
to
talk
to the teacher or the principal. He said no - he wanted to figure out
a
solution himself. Two days later, he was still bitching, and saying
that
other kids were complaining, too. The teacher apparently was unable
or
unwilling to explain certain things, even in class. I explained that
since
we were paying for a service and not getting it, maybe he wanted to
make
a
petition for the kids to sign, and take it to the principal. He
brushed
off
that idea, but a few days later, he pretended it was his idea. With
input
from other kids, they created one that was polite and professional,
but
factual.

While circulating it in the hallway, between classes, some kiss-ass
kid
noticed, and told the principal that there was trouble brewing. My
son
and a
friend were hauled down to the principal's office. Oops. His friend
was
a
girl whose grandma had been the superintendent of schools, and still
works
as an interim administrator for other districts while they're trying
to
fill
vacant positions. Very sharp lady, and to paraphrase a James Brown
song,
she
don't take no mess. Grandma came to school, and the kids were
released
from
jail. Next day, the math teacher was absent. Next day, my son came
home
and
said the teacher had returned, and it seemed like someone had "put
new
batteries in him".

Six months later, the principal was gone, too.

My doctor uses the word "customer", not "patient", when I've asked
him
about
his business. I like that. Too many professions assign special words
that
deflect attention from the fact that someone is being paid for a
service,
and the people doing the paying are customers. Students and parents
are
customers, and school employees need to be reminded of that from time
to
time.



I wish it were that easy....
C


Actually, it *IS* that easy. People get away with bullshit because they
assume that their critics are not willing to cause pain and
embarrassment.
In other words, you can choose not to be a prisoner of good manners
sometimes. If you choose otherwise, you have made a conscious choice to
be
dissatisfied.


We won't get rid of the crappy teachers until the school board and the
superintendent stop sleeping with the teacher's union.

C


Not true. If you're willing to cause pain and embarrassment, anyone can
be
eliminated. Go to a school board meeting and get loud and rude, to the
point where they're ready to call the cops. People go through life
asleep.
You need to wake them up.


Unfortunately, all the real business gets done at the "closed" sessions.
At
some one's home or such.

I know that several people that have raised objections to teachers,
subject
matter or books find their kids having mysterious "issues" at school.
There's a reason I'm for vouchers...

C


You give up to easily. There's *always* a way to embarrass people. Walk into
the school, sit down in the classroom and tell the teacher "I'm writing a
newspaper article about incompetence, and I can't imagine a better place to
gather information than right here". You own the school, right? The teacher
is your employee. Who ever heard of a situation where employers are not
allowed to watch an employee do their work? If you get arrested, send in
another trooper.


Outside of parent-teacher meetings, class parties and volunteers, parents
are not allowed in the classroom at anytime. Self esteem and all that rot.
And getting arrested will lose my DH and myself our security clearances. And
jobs.
And frankly, too many people are impressed by the degrees some of these
"experts" have, whereas I know just how easy it is to get those extra
initials. And the programs for "at risk" and "special needs" students are so
well thought of that the average kids are getting the short end of the
education stick.

Nope - hope for the best in school and shop for a new school situation. The
only way to bring the public schools back to excellence is school choice and
the end of the teacher's unions.

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/28/07 8:03 AM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 3:58 PM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 2:00 PM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 6/27/07 11:20 AM, in article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...


WHAT??????????? He sounds like the idiots who give Bush a pass
for
all
his
language disasters. There are people who are somehow able to
justify
his
saying this:

"This process has been drug out a long time, which says to me
it's
political." --George W. Bush, discussing the controversy
surrounding
Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez


Here's the best part - he was a local delegate to the NH
Democratic
convention. And he let go a great teacher that happened to be an
outspoken
Republican - for lacking "vision" in teaching. IE he attempted to
teach
the
subject (grammar and writing skills) not kowtow to local politics.

C


Stupidity knows no party labels.

You'll love this: When my son was in 9th grade, he was having
problems
with
algebra, and the teacher repeatedly told him he didn't have time to
stay
after school to answer questions. "Just read the textbook". This
was
not
long after the school open house, when the teacher said he
encouraged
kids
to come after school for extra help. So, I asked my if he wanted me
to
talk
to the teacher or the principal. He said no - he wanted to figure
out
a
solution himself. Two days later, he was still bitching, and saying
that
other kids were complaining, too. The teacher apparently was unable
or
unwilling to explain certain things, even in class. I explained
that
since
we were paying for a service and not getting it, maybe he wanted to
make
a
petition for the kids to sign, and take it to the principal. He
brushed
off
that idea, but a few days later, he pretended it was his idea. With
input
from other kids, they created one that was polite and professional,
but
factual.

While circulating it in the hallway, between classes, some kiss-ass
kid
noticed, and told the principal that there was trouble brewing. My
son
and a
friend were hauled down to the principal's office. Oops. His friend
was
a
girl whose grandma had been the superintendent of schools, and
still
works
as an interim administrator for other districts while they're
trying
to
fill
vacant positions. Very sharp lady, and to paraphrase a James Brown
song,
she
don't take no mess. Grandma came to school, and the kids were
released
from
jail. Next day, the math teacher was absent. Next day, my son came
home
and
said the teacher had returned, and it seemed like someone had "put
new
batteries in him".

Six months later, the principal was gone, too.

My doctor uses the word "customer", not "patient", when I've asked
him
about
his business. I like that. Too many professions assign special
words
that
deflect attention from the fact that someone is being paid for a
service,
and the people doing the paying are customers. Students and parents
are
customers, and school employees need to be reminded of that from
time
to
time.



I wish it were that easy....
C


Actually, it *IS* that easy. People get away with bullshit because
they
assume that their critics are not willing to cause pain and
embarrassment.
In other words, you can choose not to be a prisoner of good manners
sometimes. If you choose otherwise, you have made a conscious choice
to
be
dissatisfied.


We won't get rid of the crappy teachers until the school board and the
superintendent stop sleeping with the teacher's union.

C


Not true. If you're willing to cause pain and embarrassment, anyone can
be
eliminated. Go to a school board meeting and get loud and rude, to the
point where they're ready to call the cops. People go through life
asleep.
You need to wake them up.


Unfortunately, all the real business gets done at the "closed" sessions.
At
some one's home or such.

I know that several people that have raised objections to teachers,
subject
matter or books find their kids having mysterious "issues" at school.
There's a reason I'm for vouchers...

C


You give up to easily. There's *always* a way to embarrass people. Walk
into
the school, sit down in the classroom and tell the teacher "I'm writing a
newspaper article about incompetence, and I can't imagine a better place
to
gather information than right here". You own the school, right? The
teacher
is your employee. Who ever heard of a situation where employers are not
allowed to watch an employee do their work? If you get arrested, send in
another trooper.


Outside of parent-teacher meetings, class parties and volunteers, parents
are not allowed in the classroom at anytime. Self esteem and all that rot.
And getting arrested will lose my DH and myself our security clearances.
And
jobs.
And frankly, too many people are impressed by the degrees some of these
"experts" have, whereas I know just how easy it is to get those extra
initials. And the programs for "at risk" and "special needs" students are
so
well thought of that the average kids are getting the short end of the
education stick.

Nope - hope for the best in school and shop for a new school situation.
The
only way to bring the public schools back to excellence is school choice
and
the end of the teacher's unions.


A friend of mine was fortunate enough to be in a situation where she could
prevent morons from graduating college. That helps, too. Keep them from ever
getting near a job where they can pollute childrens' minds.

She was teaching a research methods course for seniors at one of the NY
state university schools. The students came from an assortment of major
programs. Out of 50 students, about 5 could not write. Since writing is an
important part of research, she found this to be a bit odd. But, since she
was from Puerto Rico, and only in the states for about 3 years, she wondered
if perhaps her own language skills were preventing her from seeing some
nuances she wasn't aware of. So, she detached the names from the writing and
had another faculty member review them. The consensus was that they were
gibberish. The writers were all born and raised here. The writing was a
requirement to pass the course, and the course was a requirement for most of
the students. She flunked them. There were howls of protest, of course, but
the school backed her up. She showed me a couple of samples. It wasn't a
matter of their having been a bit less than elegant. It was actually
impossible to figure out what these people were trying to say.

Besides just being annoyed by their lack of language skills, she had another
reason for her decision. As I mentioned, she'd arrived just 3 years earlier
from Puerto Rico, having taken English in high school. Her fluency was about
as lame as that of students here who make the usual halfhearted effort in
foreign language courses here, because the high school requires it. A year
later, her English was absolutely perfect, simply through immersion - living
with the language. So, how is it that people born & raised here, immersed in
English since birth, are unable to write or speak the language?

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:13:38 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
wrote:

[...]
..

Nope - hope for the best in school and shop for a new school situation. The
only way to bring the public schools back to excellence is school choice and
the end of the teacher's unions.

Whoever wrote this:

Congratulations on throwing out the baby with the bath water.

I get the impression that you know little or nothing about the history
of the labor movement. It makes VERY worthwhile reading!

Unfortunately, we have become so fat and lazy that we forget --
or never knew -- what unorganized workers went through in pre-union
days, not to mention the martyrs who were murdered for trying
to organize. Not to mention child labor - the "dark satanic mills".
Not to mention the infamous Triangle shirtwaist fire in New York City,
where hundreds of young women died because exits locked. Why should
it take these kinds of human sacrifices to arouse the public enough to
demand that selfish, greedy businesses install safety protections.
And that's in the good ole USA! Look at what can happen abroad! See
below*.

Back to U.S. labor movement: Does Sacco-Vanzetti ring a bell? Mother
Jones? Joe Hill? Molly Maguires? The Palmer raids?

To mention only a very FEW instances where people DIED
for the right to organize. Where workers' organizing groups
were attacked, beaten, arrested, hanged, as "anarchists", "radicals",
and so forth.

Truly, as a nation, we have an attention span of 5 minutes!
(Except for Paris Hilton)

Remember, even the Teamsters started out legit, and only later
became corrupt, culminating in the infamous Nixon-Teamsters-Mafia
axis of evil.

Googling "books on the history of the United States labor movement"
yields hundreds of sources.

Here's the introduction to just ONE such site, chosen at random:

http://www.kentlaw.edu/ilhs/curricul.htm


"The United States has the bloodiest history of labor of any
industrialized nation on Earth. It is a story rich in human drama and
tragedy. It is also one of progress and hope. This is a resource that
teachers of United States history can use to incorporate our rich
social and labor history into their courses. Using the ideas employed
here teachers will increase student understanding of the American
economic system and the important issues we all face as workers today.
The concepts and lessons will build on each other so that at the end
of the school year the student should have a working knowledge of the
importance of labor in society. A guiding theme of this work is how
laborers have earned a voice in the workplace and increased their
share of the economic pie. Teachers should highlight the stark
contrast between today's working environment and the relationship
between workers and owners of the past."

If you truly want to "go back to the coathanger", as it were, and
have teachers underpaid and exploited as in the not-so-distant past --
if you think that kind of educator is good for our children -- then by
all means advocate abolishing teachers' unions.

OTOH, perhaps you could consider investigating and advocating for
change in areas that you might LEGITIMATELY object to?


*--------------------------------------------------------
(from a Malaysian web site)

"One such case was the instance when the "moral police" of an Arab
country chose to lock the gates of a girls dormitory that had caught
fire, on the grounds that some of the girls should not be allowed to
escape as they were not 'decently dressed' and had not covered their
heads with scarves.

The end result was the deaths of these young girls - but the 'moral
police' would presumably have defended their actions by saying that
the girls who died had 'gone to heaven' as their modesty was not
compromised!"

--------------------------------------------------------

Persephone

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:13:38 -0400, Cheryl Isaak wrote:

Nope - hope for the best in school and shop for a new school
situation. The
only way to bring the public schools back to excellence is school
choice and
the end of the teacher's unions.

Right on.

School choice is as natural as choosing a physician or a car dealer.

Wages are not based on "how important" the job is that someone does.
If they were, the highest paid person in the community would be the
teenage lifeguard at the local swimming pool

Wages are based on how easy it is to find someone to do the job. It
is difficult to find neurosurgeons, and easy to find hamburger
flippers. Once upon a time, it was easy to find laborers, so they
were paid low wages. They didn't like it and organized, extorting
those who would hire them. Thus, were unions born.

So, for most of the 20th century, you had to have talent or a union
card, but you didn't usually have to have both.
As it takes only normal body temperature and about four years time to
become a teacher * , they soon found the field flooded. Thus were
teachers' unions born.
Predictably, teacher quality (and give-a-shit factor) bottomed out.
Higher wages would only increase the flood and decrease -- hard to
believe -- quality.

cheers

oz, who thinks "professional union" is a wonderful oxymoron

*Go to any college, public or private, state college or research
university and check the records. The lowest SAT / ACT scores are in
the School of Education, both students and faculty. Some states (WA,
WY that I know of) are certifying teachers only if they get a "real"
degree with some courses in pedagogy, and not allowing degrees in
education to lead to certification.
Hard to believe that there is a more useless degree than psych / soch.

"MajorOz" wrote in message
ps.com...

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:13:38 -0400, Cheryl Isaak wrote:

Nope - hope for the best in school and shop for a new school
situation. The
only way to bring the public schools back to excellence is school
choice and
the end of the teacher's unions.

Right on.

School choice is as natural as choosing a physician or a car dealer.

Wages are not based on "how important" the job is that someone does.
If they were, the highest paid person in the community would be the
teenage lifeguard at the local swimming pool

Wages are based on how easy it is to find someone to do the job. It
is difficult to find neurosurgeons, and easy to find hamburger
flippers. Once upon a time, it was easy to find laborers, so they
were paid low wages. They didn't like it and organized, extorting
those who would hire them. Thus, were unions born.

So, for most of the 20th century, you had to have talent or a union
card, but you didn't usually have to have both.
As it takes only normal body temperature and about four years time to
become a teacher * , they soon found the field flooded. Thus were
teachers' unions born.
Predictably, teacher quality (and give-a-shit factor) bottomed out.
Higher wages would only increase the flood and decrease -- hard to
believe -- quality.

cheers

oz, who thinks "professional union" is a wonderful oxymoron

*Go to any college, public or private, state college or research
university and check the records. The lowest SAT / ACT scores are in
the School of Education, both students and faculty. Some states (WA,
WY that I know of) are certifying teachers only if they get a "real"
degree with some courses in pedagogy, and not allowing degrees in
education to lead to certification.
Hard to believe that there is a more useless degree than psych / soch.



Since some psychiatrists are awful and some psychologists work wonders for
people, the latter degree seems pretty worthwhile.

According to Scott Adams, comparative literature ranks among the most
worthless. In of of his Dilbert cartoons:

Dilbert is on a computer and a fellow walks up behind him and goes:
Generic Guy: "Hey, Dilbert, would you mind stopping by my house after work
and seeing if you can fix my computer?"
Dilbert: "Sure. And while I do that you can be at my house cleaning the
grout in my shower."
Generic Guy (with a shocked expression): "That's crazy talk."
Dilbert: "Hey. I'm not the one who majored in comparative literature"

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

So, how is it that people born & raised here, immersed in
English since birth, are unable to write or speak the language?

I had an English teacher in 9th grade, a fellow born American who couldn't
spell. I think one of the problems is that there are so many rich/famous
people who really didn't need an education to get where they are(Bush has
already been mentioned, but another case in point of low priorities of
education. How many 'celebrities' these days have a college degree?). I know
I was always an 'oddball' in school for actually wanting to learn. Most of
the other kids were just in school because it was legally required, but they
didn't give a damn about an 'education'. We moved around so much that I had
to get my GED just so I could start community college on schedule, since I
was two years behind where I was supposed to be. And I was happy to be in
college where people are there because they want to be, not because it's
mandated by law. I think it would help if in grade/high school, the
standards were higher, because as I remember it(having been done with school
for years now, I've tried to repress most of it), you could graduate even
with only a D average. That doesn't give most kids a reason to try harder
than that. I might have considered being a teacher if I didn't know the
downsides of it, because I know I'd get summers and holidays off.