In article ,
Frank frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Frank frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote:

Billy wrote:

Drug companies by and large are interested in diseases that affect a
large number of rich people. Tropical diseases, rare diseases, or
diseases of poverty, forget it. Businesses are here to make money,
whether their products help you or not.

But the subject at hand is traditional medicine and there are no
patents, personal property rights, or big bucks to be had in traditional
medicine. Just like allopathic medicine, it works in varying degrees on
different people.
Billy,

If you are taking ginko biloba, it's not working because you are not
thinking clearly.

Programs like medicaid pay for poor people's medicines

Frank

One of the requirements of a conversation, Frank, is a subject. If
you're going to wander in and out of a dementia like delirium, I'll
leave now so that you can jerk-off undisturbed:-)

Further proof, you're either forgetful or just downright stupid

I have tried Ginko in the past. Did nothing for me.
The supplement DHA seems to help, only time will tell, nothing
dramatic. Caffeine ... shaking hand ... oh yea! ... hand still shaking.

However, I do believe the prescription drugs "Nameda" and "Aricept"
seemed to work well on my father and other friends parents. These drugs
did not improve their memories, but their memories did not get worse.
I do believe that my father (Diagnosed Dementia) would have developed
full blow alzheimer's disease without those medications. My Doc won't
give me those drugs, he probably thinks I would get too smart for my own
good So my hat is off to those companies that manufacture those drugs.

To improve ones memory is to exercise the mind. I try to learn something
new each day. If I did not learn something new that day, it was a wasted
day. I study mathematics, physics and also gardening on my own. When I
do learn something new it does feel good.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

Dan L. wrote:

I have tried Ginko in the past. Did nothing for me.
The supplement DHA seems to help, only time will tell, nothing
dramatic. Caffeine ... shaking hand ... oh yea! ... hand still shaking.

However, I do believe the prescription drugs "Nameda" and "Aricept"
seemed to work well on my father and other friends parents. These drugs
did not improve their memories, but their memories did not get worse.
I do believe that my father (Diagnosed Dementia) would have developed
full blow alzheimer's disease without those medications. My Doc won't
give me those drugs, he probably thinks I would get too smart for my own
good So my hat is off to those companies that manufacture those drugs.

To improve ones memory is to exercise the mind. I try to learn something
new each day. If I did not learn something new that day, it was a wasted
day. I study mathematics, physics and also gardening on my own. When I
do learn something new it does feel good.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


In my younger days I used to gobble up lots of vitamins including DHA.
I had a serious clotting problem that nearly did me in and wonder if it
was from all this stuff.

Now when I visit my pcp and cardiologist, I take a list of all
medications including vitamins and supplements. PCP advises use of
glucosamine/chondritin for arthritis and eye doctor has me on eye
vitamins. Cardiologist recommends the daily small aspirin dose.
On advice of a hematologist I was taking folic acid and B12 but 8 years
later another hematologist told me I did not need them. Fish oil was
another. PCP told me to take it but after angina and stents and now on
Lipitor, cardiologist told me not to take it.

Bottom line is self medication can be problematic. Paying all these high
priced doctors, it is best to heed their advice.

Frank

In article ,
Frank frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote:

Dan L. wrote:

I have tried Ginko in the past. Did nothing for me.
The supplement DHA seems to help, only time will tell, nothing
dramatic. Caffeine ... shaking hand ... oh yea! ... hand still shaking.

However, I do believe the prescription drugs "Nameda" and "Aricept"
seemed to work well on my father and other friends parents. These drugs
did not improve their memories, but their memories did not get worse.
I do believe that my father (Diagnosed Dementia) would have developed
full blow alzheimer's disease without those medications. My Doc won't
give me those drugs, he probably thinks I would get too smart for my own
good So my hat is off to those companies that manufacture those drugs.

To improve ones memory is to exercise the mind. I try to learn something
new each day. If I did not learn something new that day, it was a wasted
day. I study mathematics, physics and also gardening on my own. When I
do learn something new it does feel good.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


In my younger days I used to gobble up lots of vitamins including DHA.
I had a serious clotting problem that nearly did me in and wonder if it
was from all this stuff.

Now when I visit my pcp and cardiologist, I take a list of all
medications including vitamins and supplements. PCP advises use of
glucosamine/chondritin for arthritis and eye doctor has me on eye
vitamins. Cardiologist recommends the daily small aspirin dose.
On advice of a hematologist I was taking folic acid and B12 but 8 years
later another hematologist told me I did not need them. Fish oil was
another. PCP told me to take it but after angina and stents and now on
Lipitor, cardiologist told me not to take it.

Bottom line is self medication can be problematic. Paying all these high
priced doctors, it is best to heed their advice.

Frank

I agree "take the doctors advice". However, one of my motto's is,
"If traditional medicine fails first, then try alternative medicine".
I do not have any blood clotting problems ... yet. I have been taking
vitamins for over 40 years. Is anything safe ... no. I believe DHA is a
component of fish oil, DHA/EPA and omega fatty oils. Fish Oil may
interfere with Lipitor, perhaps the reason for your doctor to say stop
taking DHA. My Doc knows what vitamins I am taking and seems to approve
of them or does not care.

People who go to health food stores are not the healthiest on the
planet. These people are seeking help mostly where traditional medicine
has failed them. Taking vitamins is a trial and error thing for most
people including me.

What I do not take is herbs for health, I have found some herbs can do
nasty things. I just take the herbs that makes ones food taste better.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

Dan L. wrote:

I agree "take the doctors advice". However, one of my motto's is,
"If traditional medicine fails first, then try alternative medicine".
I do not have any blood clotting problems ... yet. I have been taking
vitamins for over 40 years. Is anything safe ... no. I believe DHA is a
component of fish oil, DHA/EPA and omega fatty oils. Fish Oil may
interfere with Lipitor, perhaps the reason for your doctor to say stop
taking DHA. My Doc knows what vitamins I am taking and seems to approve
of them or does not care.

People who go to health food stores are not the healthiest on the
planet. These people are seeking help mostly where traditional medicine
has failed them. Taking vitamins is a trial and error thing for most
people including me.

What I do not take is herbs for health, I have found some herbs can do
nasty things. I just take the herbs that makes ones food taste better.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


I was mistaken. I was thinking of the testosterone precursor, DHEA. It
has been nearly 10 years since I used it.

When the cardiologist told me not to take fish oil, I was on Coumadin,
Plavix, and aspirin all at the same time and was bruising like crazy.
Off Plavix now and bruising is minimal.

Frank

;Dan L. wrote:


What I do not take is herbs for health, I have found some herbs can do
nasty things. I just take the herbs that makes ones food taste better.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

I imagine those herbs are also medicinal. Parsley, rosemary, oregano,
basil etc. Parsley, i.e., is wonderful for digestion, hence it's
popularity as a garnish.

Some herbs certainly can do nasty things if they aren't the right herbs
for you. When studying herbology I "poisoned" myself on a somewhat
regular basis, trying out each herb I was studying.

Peace,

Kate

In article ,
Frank frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote:

Dan L. wrote:

I have tried Ginko in the past. Did nothing for me.
The supplement DHA seems to help, only time will tell, nothing
dramatic. Caffeine ... shaking hand ... oh yea! ... hand still shaking.

However, I do believe the prescription drugs "Nameda" and "Aricept"
seemed to work well on my father and other friends parents. These drugs
did not improve their memories, but their memories did not get worse.
I do believe that my father (Diagnosed Dementia) would have developed
full blow alzheimer's disease without those medications. My Doc won't
give me those drugs, he probably thinks I would get too smart for my own
good So my hat is off to those companies that manufacture those drugs.

To improve ones memory is to exercise the mind. I try to learn something
new each day. If I did not learn something new that day, it was a wasted
day. I study mathematics, physics and also gardening on my own. When I
do learn something new it does feel good.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


In my younger days I used to gobble up lots of vitamins including DHA.
I had a serious clotting problem that nearly did me in and wonder if it
was from all this stuff.

Now when I visit my pcp and cardiologist, I take a list of all
medications including vitamins and supplements. PCP advises use of
glucosamine/chondritin for arthritis and eye doctor has me on eye
vitamins. Cardiologist recommends the daily small aspirin dose.
On advice of a hematologist I was taking folic acid and B12 but 8 years
later another hematologist told me I did not need them. Fish oil was
another. PCP told me to take it but after angina and stents and now on
Lipitor, cardiologist told me not to take it.

Bottom line is self medication can be problematic. Paying all these high
priced doctors, it is best to heed their advice.

Frank

The problem is that when I tell my doctor (Kaiser) what herbs I'm
taking, he doesn't have the vaguest clue of what I'm talking about.
When I was prescribed Chlorothiazide I started taking prunella vulgaris
and my B.P. dropped so much, that now I can take only half of the B.P.
medication that was prescribed to me.
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars
http://www.antiwar.com/eland/index.php?articleid=8282
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

The few doubleblind studies done with gingko find it pretty much worthless
as a medicine. It certainly is valuable for generating cash flow for phony
herbal remedy community! I posted an a longish article on the topic he

http://www.paghat.com/ginkgo.html

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com.html
visit my film reviews webiste:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

In article , Frank
frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote:

Dan L. wrote:

I have tried Ginko in the past. Did nothing for me.
The supplement DHA seems to help, only time will tell, nothing
dramatic. Caffeine ... shaking hand ... oh yea! ... hand still shaking.

However, I do believe the prescription drugs "Nameda" and "Aricept"
seemed to work well on my father and other friends parents. These drugs
did not improve their memories, but their memories did not get worse.
I do believe that my father (Diagnosed Dementia) would have developed
full blow alzheimer's disease without those medications. My Doc won't
give me those drugs, he probably thinks I would get too smart for my own
good So my hat is off to those companies that manufacture those drugs.

To improve ones memory is to exercise the mind. I try to learn something
new each day. If I did not learn something new that day, it was a wasted
day. I study mathematics, physics and also gardening on my own. When I
do learn something new it does feel good.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


In my younger days I used to gobble up lots of vitamins including DHA.
I had a serious clotting problem that nearly did me in and wonder if it
was from all this stuff.

Gingko has either zero or nearly zero health benefit, and so-called
"medicines" with no medicinal value generally also have no serious
side-effects. Hence neither helpful nor harmful except whatever harm comes
from not treating a real ailment.

However, there is some evidence that it may be dangerous for individuals
who already have clotting disorders. So your suspicion was a good one!

It may also lower fertility and generally recommended that couples trying
to have a child not dope-up on such herbs as gingko, echinacea, or st
johns wart. Yet this could be regarded a positive side-effect if one
believes the gene pool should be cleansed of gullible dupes.

-paghat the ratgirl


Now when I visit my pcp and cardiologist, I take a list of all
medications including vitamins and supplements. PCP advises use of
glucosamine/chondritin for arthritis and eye doctor has me on eye
vitamins. Cardiologist recommends the daily small aspirin dose.
On advice of a hematologist I was taking folic acid and B12 but 8 years
later another hematologist told me I did not need them. Fish oil was
another. PCP told me to take it but after angina and stents and now on
Lipitor, cardiologist told me not to take it.

Bottom line is self medication can be problematic. Paying all these high
priced doctors, it is best to heed their advice.

Frank
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com.html
visit my film reviews webiste:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

In article ,
(paghat) wrote:

The few doubleblind studies done with gingko find it pretty much worthless
as a medicine. It certainly is valuable for generating cash flow for phony
herbal remedy community! I posted an a longish article on the topic he

http://www.paghat.com/ginkgo.html

-paghat the ratgirl

I don't really have a dog in this fight, since I don't take ginkgo
biloba and never have but what about

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/gin...patient-ginkgo ?
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars
http://www.antiwar.com/eland/index.php?articleid=8282
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
(paghat) wrote:

The few doubleblind studies done with gingko find it pretty much worthless
as a medicine. It certainly is valuable for generating cash flow for phony
herbal remedy community! I posted an a longish article on the topic he

http://www.paghat.com/ginkgo.html

-paghat the ratgirl

I don't really have a dog in this fight, since I don't take ginkgo
biloba and never have but what about

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/gin...patient-ginkgo ?

It's unfortunate Mayo posted this gibberish which was not prepared by the
Mayo Clinic but by a notorious PRODUCT MANUFACTURING ORGANIZATION calling
itself "Natural Standard." Though Natural Standard pretends to due
research, they do none. While they pretend to be run by physicians,
they're run by businessmen involved in selling alternative medicines.
While they pretend to have a "scientific" database of valuable information
on merits of all herbs, they based the database predominantly on
subjective interviews with true believers and regular users, which is like
asking only Holy Rollers if there's evidence of God.

They have hired a very few physicians to function as lobbyists to the
public and they twink data willfully to imply or state outright untrue
findings. The article you found, for instance, gives numerous citations,
as if these citations proved or supported the article's points, when in
fact nearly all the citations (ALL the doubleblind studies) proved gingko
had no benefit.

The Solomon, Adams et al study, for example, cited as a source for the
article's claim that gingko improves memory... the cited article (which
they count on nobody actually reading) states unambiguously: "The results
of this 6-week study indicate that ginkgo did not facilitate performance
on standard neuropsychological tests of learning, memory, attention, and
concentration or naming and verbal fluency in elderly adults without
cognitive impairment."

That study also indicated that studies that showed otherwise were not
doubleblind, and relied on spousal and user subjective opinion of
benefit. When subjectivity was removed from the equation, Solomon et al
discovered, "These data suggest that when taken following the
manufacturer's instructions, ginkgo provides no measurable benefit in
memory or related cognitive function to adults with healthy cognitive
function." None, Zip, Nada.

Same for the two studies cited as backing the article's claims for
erectile dysfunction -- the doubleblind studies proved it gingky did no
such thing, and yet the Natural Standard article with amazing hubris cites
it as proving the falsehood they promote.

So what this article is is strictly an industry-generated piece telling
whoppers to promote products which even the studies they cite reveals
don't work. They're counting on you never actually checking the citations
but just going by the titles. And their one and only source of credibility
is they have used political and monetary influence to get their
non-scientific fibbery under a Mayo logo. WHEREEVER YOU SEE "NATURAL
STANDARD" AS THE ULTIMATE SOURCE OF INFORMATION OR 'RESEACHER' ALWAYS BARE
IN MIND THEIR CLAIM TO PROVIDE "EVIDENCE-BASED" INFORMATION ON ALTERNATIVE
MEDICINES IS TRUE ONLY IF YOU HAVE A LOOSY-GOOSY DEFINITION OF "EVIDENCE."

Mayo Clinic has accepted grant moneys from Natural Standard to support web
pages. Dr. Donald Marcus and Dr. Arthur Grollman of the Mayo Clinic has
publically blasted this non-scientific association resulting in public
airing of the clinic's dirty laundry and willingness to sell "Mayo Clinic"
to manufacturers as a brand name (in the Mayo Clinic Proceedings letter
columns through 2007). These concerns were "answered" not with data or
facts but with "alternative medicine" politicking of Dr Bardia claiming
over and over that the Natural Standard database is objective (though
based largely on interviews with swillers of herbal remedies, not on
scientific data) never admitting that Dr. Bardia.

Bardia's own researches have tended to disprove values for alternative
medicines because he is, after all, a qualified oncologist. For example,
"Efficacy of Complementary and Alternative Medicine Therapies in Relieving
Cancer Pain" in Journal of Clinical Oncology, Dec 2006, concluded a
"paucity" of value. And yet he in no way discourages its use even after
showing it was useless! It only goes to show that no matter how big an
education one gets, whatever your granny taught you was true when you were
four years old still counts. So Bardia was the natural spokesman for
Alternative Medicine even at Mayo where less superstitious doctors role
their eyes in derision.

While Bardia disproves efficacy and still promotes such usage, Marcus &
Grollman provide useful and factual information only, as in one study they
showed fully one-third of branded alternative medicines imported from Asia
contained either toxic heavy metals or undeclared drugs or both. True
believers in Chinese Medicine thus play Russian roulette with two bullets
rather than one in their six-shooter every time they self-medicate.

So Bardia promotes non-remedies under the Mayo banner, while Marcus &
Grollman under the same banner, in a series of articles, keep pointing out
the lack of "quality, safety, and efficacy of herbal products" (as they
stated in the New England Journal of Medicine). They have also pointed out
that money and politics destroys the validity of what often passes for
research into herbs. While doctors on either side of the "argument" can
share Mayo credentials, it remains, when one restricts the "evidence" to
peer-reviewed doubleblind science only, there is simply no confusion in
this matter. The most popular herbs like gingko and echinacea turn out to
have efficacy equal to that of a placebo -- which in the minds of true
believers is nevertheless efficacy.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com.html
visit my film reviews webiste:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

In article ,
(paghat) wrote:

While doctors on either side of the "argument" can
share Mayo credentials, it remains, when one restricts the "evidence" to
peer-reviewed doubleblind science only, there is simply no confusion in
this matter. The most popular herbs like gingko and echinacea turn out to
have efficacy equal to that of a placebo -- which in the minds of true
believers is nevertheless efficacy.

I have no familiarity with Dr. Donald Marcus, Dr. Arthur Grollman, or Dr
Bardia but I take your meaning that the first two and the latter are
polar opposites. It would take on more meaning if any of these doctors
were benefiting from their positions.

So where does that leave us? To put a finer point on it, are you saying
(1) all herbal treatments are hooie or, (2) some herbal treatments are
hooie?

If it is the latter, how does one determine which herb is efficacious
for what, when pharmaceutical companies are loath to study Chinese or
western folk medicines because, I presume, of the lack of financial
incentive (no intellectual property rights)?

For me, I don't mind experimenting with herbs to make infusions or teas
and such, if there is no obvious down side (I'm still waiting on polk
salad). It will just serve to make me seem weirder and more effected
than I already am, a definite social plus here in California.

Just a heads up, http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2007-rst/4083.html
recounts a study that would indicate some efficacy for ginseng.
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...490698,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
(paghat) wrote:

While doctors on either side of the "argument" can
share Mayo credentials, it remains, when one restricts the "evidence" to
peer-reviewed doubleblind science only, there is simply no confusion in
this matter. The most popular herbs like gingko and echinacea turn out to
have efficacy equal to that of a placebo -- which in the minds of true
believers is nevertheless efficacy.

I have no familiarity with Dr. Donald Marcus, Dr. Arthur Grollman, or Dr
Bardia but I take your meaning that the first two and the latter are
polar opposites. It would take on more meaning if any of these doctors
were benefiting from their positions.

So where does that leave us? To put a finer point on it, are you saying
(1) all herbal treatments are hooie or, (2) some herbal treatments are
hooie?

If it is the latter, how does one determine which herb is efficacious
for what, when pharmaceutical companies are loath to study Chinese or
western folk medicines because, I presume, of the lack of financial
incentive (no intellectual property rights)?

For me, I don't mind experimenting with herbs to make infusions or teas
and such, if there is no obvious down side (I'm still waiting on polk
salad). It will just serve to make me seem weirder and more effected
than I already am, a definite social plus here in California.

Just a heads up, http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2007-rst/4083.html
recounts a study that would indicate some efficacy for ginseng.

I went over to Pahhat's video site to poke about. First thing I
noticed was no mention of Metropolis in her silent movie reviews. I did
not think of looking for Fritz Lang as she is really into video's lots
and lots. Seems first instance is to look for problems seems to be human
condition. You want to see what is about in video look at her site.
Anyway herbals were always low on my list of remedies as the shelf
life was poor. I went with some other obscure system to enhance
health. Still had a bypass ;((.

Look at this Hummingbird video for a glimpse of wonder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itoidt0Xrs8

Bill

--

Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
ICAO = KMIV Millvile Weather

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
(paghat) wrote:

While doctors on either side of the "argument" can
share Mayo credentials, it remains, when one restricts the "evidence" to
peer-reviewed doubleblind science only, there is simply no confusion in
this matter. The most popular herbs like gingko and echinacea turn out to
have efficacy equal to that of a placebo -- which in the minds of true
believers is nevertheless efficacy.

I have no familiarity with Dr. Donald Marcus, Dr. Arthur Grollman, or Dr
Bardia but I take your meaning that the first two and the latter are
polar opposites. It would take on more meaning if any of these doctors
were benefiting from their positions.

So where does that leave us? To put a finer point on it, are you saying
(1) all herbal treatments are hooie or, (2) some herbal treatments are
hooie?

Some herbs are very powerful medicinally. These tend also to have severe
and dangerous side-effects. The most POPULAR herbal remedies are sold as
"food supplements" and by and large have no medicinal value whatsoever,
but few side effects.

For instance, Ma Huang (Ephedra) takes only one rich dose (usually as a
tea) to clear up congestion. VERY useful herbal remedy. Also very
dangerous. It was formerly easily available and so the herbal industry
promoted it for weight loss and for other uses for which its use is
ill-advised. Several people died or caused permanent heart damage to
themselves so it was taken off the market.

By contrast, gingky and echinacea have no measurable effect on health
(well, no more so than, say, strawberry jam). Extract-swilling and
pill-popping hypochondriacs can gobble down this stuff without MUCH fear
of injury to themselves and potential placebo effect to make them feel
better. Since only in rare cases could outright health damage be done by
these fake remedies, they will never be withdrawn from the market. The
most the US government is willing to do to restrict them is refuse the
manufacturers permission to state any actual efficacy on the labels.

When there is no efficacy, none will be stated on legal lables, which
promote themselves as food supplements only, not medicines. Of course,
freedom of the press and of speech means the same companies can generate
all sorts of phony literature (like that provided by the "Natural
Standards" manufactuerers' organization) and health food stores can place
magazines and pamphlets in close proximity to products not labeled as of
actual health value, so if you've forgotten the superstitious value of
some valueless bit of garden rubble, no problem finding references to
asserting value where there is none.

If it is the latter, how does one determine which herb is efficacious
for what, when pharmaceutical companies are loath to study Chinese or
western folk medicines because, I presume, of the lack of financial
incentive (no intellectual property rights)?

Alas, there is no way to tell if ANY branded herb or extract is any good.
Time and again labs have tested manufactured products and found it
completely random whether or not they include any active ingredient. If
you buy, for example, "100% pure taheebo" you are almost certainly buying
sawdust from a lumber mill in South America. It will be the wrong species
of taheebo and it will be mill waste whether or not of the correct
species. If you could get scrapings of a white substance under the bark
you'd have the makings of a "natural" quinine-like medicine. But that 100%
taheebo sold in healthfood stores in the majority of cases has none of
this component and you might just as well eat pencil shavings and call
that medicine.

Another example is St John's Wort. It is, alas, another of the Highly
Popular herbs which in doubleblind studies has proven to be worthless for
any degree of clinical depression. It has shown marginal value for people
who feel kind of sad but are in no way clinically depressed -- POSSIBLY
exceeding the placebo effect, but not if you're legitimately ill. But
let's pretend it's vague possibility of limited value is real -- the
active chemical component of Hypericum sp is concentrated in the roots and
the berries. But the "100% st johns wort" sold in health food stories is
the twigs and leaves because the berries and rootstock go to a higher
level of the marketplace.

In Germany this stuff has to be prescribed by a physician and it does mean
extracts available only with prescription are pharmaceutical grade. German
exports alas aren't. But if you're in Germany with a German physician and
you want to try something likely to be worthless but with some faint
possibility of value, you'll be getting a true pharmaceutical grade
product. But in the United States and other countries, you get a garden
rubble, mill waste, wrong species of right genus, degraded, stale, or
otherwise useless manufactured products. It's completely random, with no
such thing as a reliable brand, that any of the alleged active ingredient
is in these products, even when labels claim otherwise. As food
supplements rather than pharmaceuticals, they only have to pass the "not
poisonous" test (too bad they often fail even that, as such products are
apt to be contaminated with mercury for example).

In theory you could get strong St Johns Wart by harvesting the berries or
roots from your own garden. For a slight, imagined, or debatable benefit
to mood, you'll at least have the active ingredient, which is well
documented to interfer with the function of actual prescription drugs. So
unlike the worthless stuff in the health food store that has no active
ingredient, getting your hands on the real thing can actually worsen the
situation for self-prescribing yahoos.

For me, I don't mind experimenting with herbs to make infusions or teas
and such, if there is no obvious down side (I'm still waiting on polk
salad). It will just serve to make me seem weirder and more effected
than I already am, a definite social plus here in California.

Just a heads up, http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2007-rst/4083.html
recounts a study that would indicate some efficacy for ginseng.

Ginseng has passed muster under a number of clinical and doubleblind
studies. Here again we have a problem, however, in that health food stores
sell it for uses it has been shown NOT assist, and the manufactured
products are insufficiently standardized so that predictable dosages are
impossible.

Also, its potentially powerful ginsenosides can cause injury to health as
easily as it can benefit. It's most dangerous to people with clotting
disorders, or who are on medications with anti-clotting side-effects
(including asprin), or who are on drugs such as Coumadin which has its
effect erased by ginseng. The rule of thumb is "If" a given drug has
medicinal value, it also has the potential of dangerous side-effects.
Always let your doctor know with what you are experimenting.

I experiment with herbal remedies myself for such things as not being able
to get to sleep. So I'm not exempt from superstition. When swilling one or
another of my herbal teas I know I may well be a moron even to hope for
the best, but sometimes just the act of making the tea and drinking
something warm is all it takes. And a few teas (sassofrass, green tea,
rose hips) have chemical properties with pretty strong impacts on the
body, some good, some bad, usually neither one if not imbibed at
concentrations that would taste awful. If you like whisked green tea
concentrate you're probably having positive health benefits. If you prefer
your green tea to not make you gag with horror, it's not doing much.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com.html
visit my film reviews webiste:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

In article
, Bill
wrote:

I went over to Pahhat's video site to poke about. First thing I
noticed was no mention of Metropolis in her silent movie reviews. I did
not think of looking for Fritz Lang as she is really into video's lots
and lots. Seems first instance is to look for problems seems to be human
condition. You want to see what is about in video look at her site.

Some things that have been written about endlessly I'm slower to get
'round to, always hoping I can manage to have an original thought here or
there about a film, and if I haven't had one, keep waiting and hoping I
do.

Some of my favorite films including METROPOLIS and Okamoto's SEPPUKU i
have not yet written a piece on because the films are too important to
just knock something off, but I hope eventually to get round to it, and
hope the articles will be more significant than my next dozen articles
about bad horror movies about which there's small reason to think hard.

I have intense coverage of Japanese cinema but for a long time not much on
Kurosawa (that began to change last year) as I thought it more important
to write of comparatively overlooked masters like Daisuke Ito rather than
on a director who has inspired thousands of essays in English. Where I
have discussed Kurosawa in the last year I hope I've brought something
original each time, but maybe it's only a hope.

-paggers


Anyway herbals were always low on my list of remedies as the shelf
life was poor. I went with some other obscure system to enhance
health. Still had a bypass ;((.

Look at this Hummingbird video for a glimpse of wonder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itoidt0Xrs8

Bill
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com.html
visit my film reviews webiste:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

In article
,
Bill wrote:

I went over to Pahhat's video site to poke about. First thing I
noticed was no mention of Metropolis in her silent movie reviews. I did
not think of looking for Fritz Lang as she is really into video's lots
and lots. Seems first instance is to look for problems seems to be human
condition. You want to see what is about in video look at her site.
Anyway herbals were always low on my list of remedies as the shelf
life was poor. I went with some other obscure system to enhance
health. Still had a bypass ;((.

Look at this Hummingbird video for a glimpse of wonder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itoidt0Xrs8

Bill

Making the unknown known, seems to always involve "compare and
contrast", dichotomizing, and finding conflicts, at least for us simple
minded sorts. Monoliths (a chunk of granite, for example) aren't very
edifying but once you can identify its' mineral base, then it can be a
very exciting read.

If 1930 ever comes around again, I know where to go for movie reviews.
You probably know, since you seem to be on the leading edge of ephemeral
culture, but where would one find these films? I checked Netflix and I
can't find most of these movies.

Been to you tube, (dare I say it?) it was a sweet video (thanks), except
for the irritating ads that were interspersed through it.

Don't sweat the by pass. Your not a REAL man 'till you've had your first
heart attack;-)
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...490698,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movemen...George_W._Bush