look! a bright spot on the horizon (maybe)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/di...heap.html?_r=1
&oref=slogin

or: http://tinyurl.com/ypzjxw


lee off to buy hay
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

In article ,
enigma wrote:

look! a bright spot on the horizon (maybe)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/di...heap.html?_r=1
&oref=slogin

or: http://tinyurl.com/ypzjxw


lee off to buy hay

Thanks for the post Lee!

However most of the large cities don't have supermarkets or farmer
markets these days. Same places have high school drop out rates of
close to 50 %. Bill Crosby is trying to address the rate of murders and
dropout rates. We always thing it is driven by economics¹s but my gut
says FOOD.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...robation.ukcri
me


Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article ,
enigma wrote:

look! a bright spot on the horizon (maybe)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/di...heap.html?_r=1
&oref=slogin

or: http://tinyurl.com/ypzjxw


lee off to buy hay

Thanks for the post Lee!

However most of the large cities don't have supermarkets or farmer
markets these days. Same places have high school drop out rates of
close to 50 %. Bill Crosby is trying to address the rate of murders and
dropout rates. We always thing it is driven by economics¹s but my gut
says FOOD.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...robation.ukcri
me


Bill

I keep remembering an urban "food activist" being interviewed on
Democracy Now (http://www.democracynow.org/) as sayin' that in her
neighborhood, he could buy "crack", "heroin", or an AK 47 but she
couldn't buy an organic apple.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

In article ,
enigma wrote:

look! a bright spot on the horizon (maybe)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/di...heap.html?_r=1
&oref=slogin

or: http://tinyurl.com/ypzjxw


lee off to buy hay

Ja sure, maybe it's a good deal but . . .

More than 14,400 people in Sonoma County now receive food stamps. That's
one in 33 county residents, compared with one in 57 eight years ago.

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/articl...NEWS/804020380

There's gonna' be them wot gets caught in the pinch.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:40:31 -0700, Billy wrote:

In article ,
enigma wrote:

look! a bright spot on the horizon (maybe)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/di...heap.html?_r=1
&oref=slogin

or: http://tinyurl.com/ypzjxw


lee off to buy hay

Ja sure, maybe it's a good deal but . . .

More than 14,400 people in Sonoma County now receive food stamps. That's
one in 33 county residents, compared with one in 57 eight years ago.

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/articl...NEWS/804020380

There's gonna' be them wot gets caught in the pinch.

Christ, how the hell do we deal with this, Billy? Can we?

Here we all are talkin' about growin' our own, but so many don't even
have two square inches in which to grow food.

Thanks for smackin' me right between the eyes with a clue by four.

F**k, I keep thinking in terms that apply to me and my situation and
economic status, and the rest of "them" in general terms. I rail on
about the coming pinch, but you are right, there are so many that are
already caught bad. And harder times coming for them.

Shit
Charlie

I'll be lucky if I can grow enough garnish for my meals. I can't support
me, much less the other four that would count on me. I think I need to
cut me some firewood and plant fruit trees, but this was nearly a climax
forest, so that feels weird. But still, if I can cover a couple of
possums, leave a little for the deer, and maybe plant a walnut tree for
the squirrels, what the hell.
Typically, we would get plucked slowly, like the frog sitting in the
boiling water, but I think Shrub and his gang has really screwed up and
the economy has gotten away from them. I hope I'm wrong.

Damn!
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

Billy wrote in

ct.net.au:

I'll be lucky if I can grow enough garnish for my meals. I
can't support me, much less the other four that would count
on me. I think I need to cut me some firewood and plant
fruit trees, but this was nearly a climax forest, so that
feels weird. But still, if I can cover a couple of possums,
leave a little for the deer, and maybe plant a walnut tree
for the squirrels, what the hell.

squirrels prefer hickory, actually. they only go for my
walnuts if i leave the box outside after i take the hulls off.
however, in the 9 autumns i've been here & with a few dozen
hickories, i've only managed to score *one* nut for myself.
the squirrels eat them off the trees. almost all i ever see
are the hulls & a bit of shell
where are you that you have almost climax forest? i have
pasture gone to pine to hardwood over the past 70 years (this
place was a grain mill in the 1800s, then a dairy until the
30s. then it became a Boston professor's summer home until the
mid-60s, when it was reformed into a small sheep & maple syrup
producing farm). i wouldn't call it climax, even though most
of the softwood is gone.

Typically, we would get plucked slowly, like the frog
sitting in the boiling water, but I think Shrub and his
gang has really screwed up and the economy has gotten away
from them. I hope I'm wrong.

there is already a recession, no matter how much the gub'mint
is loathe to say the "r" word. i think it will get worse
before it gets better & i can see the next president in a
really bad position... i am hopeful there will not be a
depression, but i would not rule it out.
i'm trying to decide if i should pay off my mortgage, so i
will be clear in that event. i'm also trying to decide if i
should buy more adjacent land, to aid in self-sufficiency.
this house was built before modern 'conveniences' & it can
work without them if needed. i consider myself lucky in that
regard at least.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Billy wrote in

ct.net.au:

I'll be lucky if I can grow enough garnish for my meals. I
can't support me, much less the other four that would count
on me. I think I need to cut me some firewood and plant
fruit trees, but this was nearly a climax forest, so that
feels weird. But still, if I can cover a couple of possums,
leave a little for the deer, and maybe plant a walnut tree
for the squirrels, what the hell.

squirrels prefer hickory, actually. they only go for my
walnuts if i leave the box outside after i take the hulls off.
however, in the 9 autumns i've been here & with a few dozen
hickories, i've only managed to score *one* nut for myself.
the squirrels eat them off the trees. almost all i ever see
are the hulls & a bit of shell
What if I get lucky and have a hickory nut to myself? Can I eat it?
We had a black walnut that never showed a harvest but it up and died.
How do squirrels do with chestnuts?
where are you that you have almost climax forest? i have
pasture gone to pine to hardwood over the past 70 years (this
place was a grain mill in the 1800s, then a dairy until the
30s. then it became a Boston professor's summer home until the
mid-60s, when it was reformed into a small sheep & maple syrup
producing farm). i wouldn't call it climax, even though most
of the softwood is gone.
I'm out her in northern California on the edge of the redwood forest.
I'm twixt Santa Rosa and Guerneville. Guerneville was so heavily logged
that its' unofficial name is "Stumptown". Redwood and bay make up most
of the non-deciduous trees. I don't know if bay is considered hardwood
but it is harder than the redwood. We had one redwood, up the hill from
our house about 70 - 80 feet (we are on the south bank of the Russian
River, with a northern exposure), that hung like the sword of Damocles
over our house, so we took it down. I didn't like doing it but it was
necessary for my family. We still have twenty or so trees on our three
lots, mostly oak, some bays, and a couple of buckeyes.

Typically, we would get plucked slowly, like the frog
sitting in the boiling water, but I think Shrub and his
gang has really screwed up and the economy has gotten away
from them. I hope I'm wrong.

there is already a recession, no matter how much the gub'mint
is loathe to say the "r" word. i think it will get worse
before it gets better & i can see the next president in a
really bad position... i am hopeful there will not be a
depression, but i would not rule it out.
i'm trying to decide if i should pay off my mortgage, so i
will be clear in that event. i'm also trying to decide if i
should buy more adjacent land, to aid in self-sufficiency.
I'd get out of debt.
this house was built before modern 'conveniences' & it can
work without them if needed. i consider myself lucky in that
regard at least.
I think, at least for the for seeable future, people in the western
world will look back on the Twentieth Century as the "Golden Age" when
the old prophecies of milk and honey almost came true. I doubt the
developing world will see it like that though. Until we reach some sort
of equivalency in life style with the developing world, I think we can
expect our life style to diminish. I was born in the middle of WWII.
After the war, America was responsible for 50% of the worlds commerce
because the rest of the industrialized world had blow themselves to
pieces. Suddenly, families could survive on a single income and mom
could stay home with the kids. Never was like that before and probably
never will be again, with our current style of gub'mint (keptocracy).
lee
I got the book you recommended "Teach Yourself Visually Handspinning"
and I'm slowly picking up the vocabulary. Presently, I'm reading the
library's copy but in a few days mine will show up from Amazon.

Well, nice chat but I'm late for "Happy Hour". Gotta run;-)
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

Billy wrote in

ct.net.au:

What if I get lucky and have a hickory nut to myself? Can I
eat it?

i did, it was delicious! i want to plant more hickory. it
*might* improve my chances of getting another one to eat
myself...

We had a black walnut that never showed a harvest
but it up and died. How do squirrels do with chestnuts?

i have 2 black walnuts, one in my yard (as it were) & one in
the former peach orchard, now pasture. the first is around 35
years old & bears heavily every other year. the one in the
pasture is about 15 years & just started bearing about 3 years
ago (it had 3 walnuts). it also seems to bear alternate years.
oddly, it's heavy years are the bigger trees lean years... so i
end up with about the same amount of walnuts.
i think it depends on the type of chestnut, if the squirrels
will eat them. they will eat my American chestnuts (if they can
get them. i'm pretty zealous about grabbing any good ones). i
don't know if they can, or will, eat buckeyes (those are horse
chestnuts, right?). i'm trying to get seedlings from my
chestnut, as they are only slightly self-fertile. you get much
bigger yields if they can cross pollanate. i'm almost thinking
of getting some of the American/Chinese hybrids, just to help my
poor tree out. it had blight, but was drasticly pruned &
survived. i'm hoping it's offsping will be resistant.

I'm out her in northern California on the edge of the
redwood forest. I'm twixt Santa Rosa and Guerneville.
Guerneville was so heavily logged that its' unofficial name
is "Stumptown". Redwood and bay make up most of the
non-deciduous trees. I don't know if bay is considered
hardwood but it is harder than the redwood. We had one
redwood, up the hill from our house about 70 - 80 feet (we
are on the south bank of the Russian River, with a northern
exposure), that hung like the sword of Damocles over our
house, so we took it down. I didn't like doing it but it
was necessary for my family. We still have twenty or so
trees on our three lots, mostly oak, some bays, and a
couple of buckeyes.

the buckeyes aren't native, i don't think. they're nice lumber
trees though. bays are hardwoods. even birch is a hardwood,
although it's softer than pine (softwoods are generally
conifers, & hardwoods are deciduous).
if you have some relatively open areas on your lots, look for
antique apples to put in. most of the antique varieties don't
need as much fussing as the modern ones... or small fruits, like
highbush cranberry, maybe. i'm all for edible landscaping.
that looks like a pretty nice area from the yahoo arial map
(which tend to be clearer than google, but not always). lots of
treed, hilly country to escape into if needed
I think, at least for the for seeable future, people in the
western world will look back on the Twentieth Century as
the "Golden Age" when the old prophecies of milk and honey
almost came true. I doubt the developing world will see it
like that though. Until we reach some sort of equivalency
in life style with the developing world, I think we can
expect our life style to diminish. I was born in the middle
of WWII. After the war, America was responsible for 50% of
the worlds commerce because the rest of the industrialized
world had blow themselves to pieces. Suddenly, families
could survive on a single income and mom could stay home
with the kids. Never was like that before and probably
never will be again, with our current style of gub'mint
(keptocracy).

well, unless you look at farming lifestyles pre-WW, when
families were extended (grandparents, parents, children &
frequently unmarried siblings of the parents) all living &
working together.
i'm a bit younger than you (1954), but i was a child of
depression era parents. kids born mid-60s or later tend not to
understand the make, save, repair or do without mindset. i do
know that my child is the only one who attends school in patched
clothes...

I got the book you recommended "Teach Yourself Visually
Handspinning" and I'm slowly picking up the vocabulary.
Presently, I'm reading the library's copy but in a few days
mine will show up from Amazon.

did you get a drop spindle? i really need to try that again.
way more portable than my wheel.
lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:32:08 -0700, Billy wrote:


I'll be lucky if I can grow enough garnish for my meals. I can't support
me, much less the other four that would count on me. I think I need to
cut me some firewood and plant fruit trees, but this was nearly a climax
forest, so that feels weird. But still, if I can cover a couple of
possums, leave a little for the deer, and maybe plant a walnut tree for
the squirrels, what the hell.
Typically, we would get plucked slowly, like the frog sitting in the
boiling water, but I think Shrub and his gang has really screwed up and
the economy has gotten away from them. I hope I'm wrong.

Damn!

Well, lemme tell ya', Bill, I count myself fortunate to have made your
acquaintence.

Perhaps it's my early fundamentalist upbringing, but I see doom on all
sides. We both know the history and we both know human nature and we
both know the state of the nest we live in and by all accounts, we seem
to be caught between the proverbial hard things. It isn't looking
good. Most people on this group have tuned us out or regard us as old
fools and cranks or worse. Such is life.
(snip)
So there you have it. What? Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we
die? Perhaps. I have no hope for solutions. As Carolyn Bakers says,
"There are no solutions, but there are myriad options." Think about
that.


Think outside the box is definitely called for, whether that box is our
coffin or our planet. Most people I know, run to work, run home, do
house work, cook dinner, help the kids with their homework, zone out for
a few minutes with their significant other in front of the TV and then
go to bed for six and a half to seven hours sleep. Read a book or
newspaper from cover to cover is pretty much out of the question. We get
our news from the media which is owned by the same hinderbinders who
have gotten us into the present mess and it doesn't suit their interests
to make it all clear to us.

I know that you and I could have this conversation telepathically over a
cup of coffee without without bothering the good posters of "wrecked
gardens (edible)", but like a passenger in a car, if you see another car
coming, you feel obliged to mention it to the driver, no matter how much
it irritates him.

I enjoyed your quote from St. Molly, lord I miss that girl. I had just
been thinking of it but I couldn't find it and now here it is:-)

Best I could do was I.F. Stone:

"The only kinds of fights worth fighting are those you are going to
lose, because somebody has to fight them and lose and lose and lose
until someday, somebody who believes as you do wins. In order for
somebody to win an important, major fight 100 years hence, a lot of
other people have got to be willing - for the sheer fun and joy of it -
to go right ahead and fight, knowing you're going to lose. You mustn't
feel like a martyr. You've got to enjoy it.
- I. F. Stone

Keep he faith.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/