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Compost ratio
I'm starting trying start my first compost. I keep seeing a carbon to
nitrogen ratio of 30:1. Is that by weight or volume? Most kitchen scrap is nitrogen so that's the one I have plenty of but that's the low part of the 30:1 ratio. Winter just thawed out and I have bunch of dried grass on my lawn. Grass clipping is considered green, but is dried grass considered brown (besides the fact that it looks brown)? Can I dry "green" things out and it turns to brown material? Seems like brown is harder to generate in that quantity than green material since lawn is mulched, but is needed in vastly greater quantities. Even using newspaper, that's a lot of newspaper compared to how much kitchen scrap is generated daily. There's no way I can compost all my kitchen scrap. I know people talk about straw and hay, but those things are bulky and I don't have room to store a bale of hay until kitchen scrap catches up nor do I have a compost bin large enough for that much hay. What are people using for brown material? Maybe I could start spread chopped up kitchen scraps on my lawn and let it do its thing. I kid. |
#3
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Compost ratio
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#4
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Compost ratio
All good advices. Two reasons I'm asking about composting the "right"
way is because A) I don't want it to start stinking by having too much nitrogen and B) I want to minimize the time so I can start using it this summer. Being an engineer I tend to overthink things. No, it's not rocket science, but I'm sure some ratios are better than others so I'm trying to learn from other's experiences from the start instead of trial and error on my own. Just so I have an idea, is that 50/50 brown/green by weight? Would make sense since it's the amount of material that would be working with each other. That 30:1 ratio is probably by volume because brown is so much lighter. We probably generate a few pounds of green each day. That's a lot of leaves I have to keep around to keep up with the green since brown is so light...Perhaps once I get the pile going it would regulate itself so I don't have to worry so much about what I'm throwing in. On Apr 9, 6:24 pm, Phisherman wrote: On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:50:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote: I'm starting trying start my first compost. I keep seeing a carbon to nitrogen ratio of 30:1. Is that by weight or volume? Most kitchen scrap is nitrogen so that's the one I have plenty of but that's the low part of the 30:1 ratio. Winter just thawed out and I have bunch of dried grass on my lawn. Grass clipping is considered green, but is dried grass considered brown (besides the fact that it looks brown)? Can I dry "green" things out and it turns to brown material? Seems like brown is harder to generate in that quantity than green material since lawn is mulched, but is needed in vastly greater quantities. Even using newspaper, that's a lot of newspaper compared to how much kitchen scrap is generated daily. There's no way I can compost all my kitchen scrap. I know people talk about straw and hay, but those things are bulky and I don't have room to store a bale of hay until kitchen scrap catches up nor do I have a compost bin large enough for that much hay. What are people using for brown material? Maybe I could start spread chopped up kitchen scraps on my lawn and let it do its thing. I kid. I don't know any gardeners who weigh or measure their compost. It's not rocket science. Try to have 50/50 of brown/green. If your pile is not giving off steam and smelling "earthy," something is not right. I havn't had much luck composting newspaper, but I don't buy newspaper anymore since I read online. You can shred newspaper and use as brown material. |
#5
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Compost ratio
wrote in message ... All good advices. Two reasons I'm asking about composting the "right" way is because A) I don't want it to start stinking by having too much nitrogen and B) I want to minimize the time so I can start using it this summer. Being an engineer I tend to overthink things. No, it's not rocket science, but I'm sure some ratios are better than others so I'm trying to learn from other's experiences from the start instead of trial and error on my own. Just so I have an idea, is that 50/50 brown/green by weight? Would make sense since it's the amount of material that would be working with each other. That 30:1 ratio is probably by volume because brown is so much lighter. We probably generate a few pounds of green each day. That's a lot of leaves I have to keep around to keep up with the green since brown is so light...Perhaps once I get the pile going it would regulate itself so I don't have to worry so much about what I'm throwing in. My compost is 95% lawn clippings, with a few weeds and kitchen waste, layered with dirt sprinkled in on each layer to innoculate with lots of appropriate bacteria, and I've never had problems. Then again, I never rush it. For fast compost, you will need to turn it frequently and keep it damp. I really don't think you need to worry a huge amount about the correct mixture. You could use the worm bin approach as another alternative. |
#6
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Compost ratio
wrote in message
... All good advices. Two reasons I'm asking about composting the "right" way is because A) I don't want it to start stinking by having too much nitrogen and B) I want to minimize the time so I can start using it this summer. Being an engineer I tend to overthink things. No, it's not rocket science, but I'm sure some ratios are better than others so I'm trying to learn from other's experiences from the start instead of trial and error on my own. Just so I have an idea, is that 50/50 brown/green by weight? Would make sense since it's the amount of material that would be working with each other. That 30:1 ratio is probably by volume because brown is so much lighter. We probably generate a few pounds of green each day. That's a lot of leaves I have to keep around to keep up with the green since brown is so light...Perhaps once I get the pile going it would regulate itself so I don't have to worry so much about what I'm throwing in. Any mixture will eventually rot into perfectly good compost given enough time. If there is not enough nitrogen in the pile, it will just take longer because the bacteria population will be limited by the amount of nitrogen available. It won't get stinky unless it goes anaerobic, so just make sure the pile can breath well enough. There are lots of ways to do this: keeping the pile smaller, adding materials with a lot of "structure" (like hedge or woody shrub trimmings, stalks from last year's sunflowers, etc.), or turning the pile frequently. Big piles of grass clippings or wet leaves tend to mat together and reduce aeration. Mixing a whole bunch of different things together helps avoid that. During much of the year my pile gets essentially nothing but kitchen scraps added to it, but during that part of the year the pile is small so it still breaths and has never gotten stinky. During other parts of the year I have a huge excess of "browns" (e.g. shrub trimmings, autumn leaves), which just slows the decomposition down a bit, but everything works out in the end. The only thing that would keep it from decomposing entirely was if the pile dried out and stayed dry. There are three different groups of decomposition bacteria that are maximally active at different temperatures: psychrophilic -- 32-50 degrees or something like that mesophyllic -- 70-90 degrees thermophilic -- ~140 degrees I probably have the exact temps wrong but you get the idea. The theory that if you don't have heat and steam, something is wrong, is IMO not true. It just means you are not in the temperature zone of the thermophiles. If you want really fast decomposition, yes then you need to get the thermophiles busy, which means getting enough nitrogen in and a large enough pile so you can have a bacteria population boom and retain the heat. (A book I read on composting recommended animal manure for nitrogen.) The high temperature also helps kill weed seeds and other pathogens. However, if you did not put weedy, diseased inputs into the pile, this is not that important, and this same book claimed that the finished compost that retains the most nutrients is that which is mainly produced by a mesophyllic decomposition. If the pile is small (~less than two cubic yards), it can't retain enough heat to get the thermophiles going and you will get mesophyllic decomposition when the weather is warm enough, and psychrophilic (very slow) when it is colder. Another problem with thermophilic piles is the temperature kills many desirable soil organisms, other decomposition bacteria, and those wonderful decomposition workers known as red worms. Finally, if you have a well-aerated pile that is large and well-insulated enough, it can actually catch on fire from thermophiloc decomposition -- so if you are going for hot, make sure the pile is in a safe place! (If you have a small pile and really want to achieve thermophilic decomposition, the same book recommended covering the entire pile with a six-inch layer of soil to help insulate it. Good soil -- such as soil you have been adding finished compost to for several years -- also contains significant nitrogen and a broad array of decomposition organisms.) The short of it, in my experience, is just throw whatever you have into the pile and don't worry about it. Turn it once in a while if it needs aeration, and water it once in a while if you have a dry spell. Nature will take care of the rest for you. Kevin |
#7
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Compost ratio
said:
I'm starting trying start my first compost. I keep seeing a carbon to nitrogen ratio of 30:1. Is that by weight or volume? C:N ratio is by (dry) weight, typically Even using newspaper, that's a lot of newspaper compared to how much kitchen scrap is generated daily. There's no way I can compost all my kitchen scrap. Oh, not really. Newsprint has a C:N ratio of somewhere over 400. That means they can balance 5-10 times as much 'green' material as can autumn leaves or straw! What are people using for brown material? I use leaves which I pick up all around town in the fall, shred and compact into contractor-grade bags, and store way in the back for use in mulching and composting the next year. I also use shredded paper (if the leaf supply is running low). Wood chips are also a good (and very 'brown') ingredient. They will make the compost mix a bit 'airier' (less apt to compact). This table might be useful: http://www.css.cornell.edu/compost/O...apa.taba1.html -- Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (attributed to Don Marti) |
#8
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Compost ratio
Again, thank you for all the good suggestions. This newsgroup has been
the most active and helpful I've visited in recent years (after all the spam bot activity got heavy and newsgroup popularity declined). I'm getting more confident now. After I read the first responses, I searched google again using different terms and realized the 30:1 ratio is not volume or weight, but the actual carbon and nitrogen content. I wish the web sites I came across first were more clear. They made it sound like C:N ratio is the same as brown:green ratio (implied by saying that some things are brown and others are green) when in fact there's no brown:green ratio because not all materials are created equal and everything is shades of brown and green. I did come across the Cornell site last night and the light went off in my head. Very exciting stuff (for me at least). Thanks you all again. On Apr 10, 7:04*am, Pat Kiewicz wrote: said: I'm starting trying start my first compost. I keep seeing a carbon to nitrogen ratio of 30:1. Is that by weight or volume? C:N ratio is by (dry) weight, typically Even using newspaper, that's a lot of newspaper compared to how much kitchen scrap is generated daily. There's no way I can compost all my kitchen scrap. Oh, not really. *Newsprint has a C:N ratio of somewhere over 400. * That means they can balance 5-10 times as much 'green' material as can autumn leaves or straw! What are people using for brown material? I use leaves which I pick up all around town in the fall, shred and compact into contractor-grade bags, and store way in the back for use in mulching and composting the next year. I also use shredded paper (if the leaf supply is running low). Wood chips are also a good (and very 'brown') ingredient. They will make the compost mix a bit 'airier' (less apt to compact). This table might be useful: http://www.css.cornell.edu/compost/O...apa.taba1.html -- Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (attributed to Don Marti) |
#9
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Compost ratio
wrote in message ... There's no way I can compost all my kitchen scrap. I can't believe you said that! I had a neighborhood cafe that saved their salad/veggie scraps for me, I picked up one or two 5 gallon buckets every night on my way home from work. I dumped this on my compost piles along with my kitchen scraps, it wasn't "too much". I had 3 compost bins; one by the back kitchen door, one in the veggie garden and one behind the garage. They got whatever was at hand in the close proximity tossed on them while I worked in the garden. Just depended on what time of the year it was as to what was tossed on. The only thing I didn't use were lawn clippings. I had eliminated every blade of grass on my property, I personally see no reason for 30 gazillion little high maintenence plants that all look the same, I don't DO lawn. Kitchen scraps, trimmings, prunings, the rubble from garden grooming, leaves, fireplace ash, all tossed on in the random order of appearance, a son occasionally "dampening the pile" (Don't you dare walk through the house with those dirty shoes!) while out doing garden chores, it worked. No recipes, no weights and measures, none of them stunk, they all produced fine garden gold. Find somebody with a good old compost pile and wheedle a shovelful from that pile and toss it on yours, that will help start yours up. Toss on all those scraps and once in a while sprinkle a shovelful of garden soil over yours if you think it's getting mucky. When you are working in your garden walk over with a pitchfork and give it a few jabs and twists to stir things up a bit and give it a breath of air. Maybe shred up that precise recipe for compost while you're at it and toss that into the pile as well. Loosen up your anally engineered sphincter, man. You said it...this isn't really rocket science. If you really want *immediate* compost go buy a bag and then use what you're making when it's ready. Otherwise just kick back and let it rot, have a beer, relax. A compost pile is never 'done', you just eventually harvest what's ripe and it continues on doing what it's supposed to do. It's alive, it rots, it's compost. Val |
#10
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Compost ratio
On Apr 10, 11:28*am, "Val" wrote:
wrote in message ... There's no way I can compost all my kitchen scrap. I can't believe you said that! That was under the assumption that I needed 30 times the brown material for my kitchen scrap. I have since learned that it is not true. I'm just trying to learn. It might be easy for you because you know how to do it. Last time I tried I thought I could just throw kitchen scrap in a bin outsife. Well, it turned out to be a giant pile of rotten garbage. I guess it was still technically a compost heap, but it's not the way I (or my neighbors) preferred to do it.I didn't know about brown and green or carbon and nitrogen. Even those the composting process is very forgiving and no right or wrong way, there's still good ways and bad ways of doing it. Loosen up your anally engineered sphincter, man. You said it...this isn't really rocket Wouldn't have my sphincter engineered any other way. That part works just fine, unlike my previous attempt at composting. Otherwise just kick back and let it rot, have a beer, relax. None of the web sites said anything about beer being part of composting. I like your method much better! |
#11
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Compost ratio
In article 2148e628-b790-46ca-90ba-
, says... I'm starting trying start my first compost. I keep seeing a carbon to nitrogen ratio of 30:1. Is that by weight or volume? Most kitchen scrap is nitrogen so that's the one I have plenty of but that's the low part of the 30:1 ratio. Winter just thawed out and I have bunch of dried grass on my lawn. Grass clipping is considered green, but is dried grass considered brown (besides the fact that it looks brown)? Can I dry "green" things out and it turns to brown material? Seems like brown is harder to generate in that quantity than green material since lawn is mulched, but is needed in vastly greater quantities. Even using newspaper, that's a lot of newspaper compared to how much kitchen scrap is generated daily. There's no way I can compost all my kitchen scrap. I know people talk about straw and hay, but those things are bulky and I don't have room to store a bale of hay until kitchen scrap catches up nor do I have a compost bin large enough for that much hay. What are people using for brown material? Maybe I could start spread chopped up kitchen scraps on my lawn and let it do its thing. I kid. Just my opinion... I don't worry about it. Compost can be about as simple, or as complicated, as your approach to it. And I like simple. My only issue is whether the stuff has any nasty chemicals on it. For example, a paper towel with certain cleaners on it, will go in the regular rubbish instead. But, generally, kitchen scraps, grass clippings, leaves, pulled weeds (with clumps of soil), and some paper... I just dump it all in. Without attempting any mathematical equations. I use two commercially-sold plastic bins (240 litres each), to alternate filling and aging. I add a bit of water and urine (yes, urine) to the full one. Plus some extra water to the bucket in my kitchen for scraps (dumped in every couple of days.) I don't even put much effort into turning the contents of either bin. But, it works out OK for me. In this particular location, the only thing I might change, is buying some worms. Because my soil is clay-ish and compacted, and has a low natural population of them. -- Get Credit Where Credit Is Due http://www.cardreport.com/ Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum |
#12
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Compost ratio
On Apr 12, 1:19 am, Coffee's For Closers USENET2...@THE-DOMAIN-
IN.SIG wrote: In article 2148e628-b790-46ca-90ba- , says... I'm starting trying start my first compost. I keep seeing a carbon to nitrogen ratio of 30:1. Is that by weight or volume? Most kitchen scrap is nitrogen so that's the one I have plenty of but that's the low part of the 30:1 ratio. Winter just thawed out and I have bunch of dried grass on my lawn. Grass clipping is considered green, but is dried grass considered brown (besides the fact that it looks brown)? Can I dry "green" things out and it turns to brown material? Seems like brown is harder to generate in that quantity than green material since lawn is mulched, but is needed in vastly greater quantities. Even using newspaper, that's a lot of newspaper compared to how much kitchen scrap is generated daily. There's no way I can compost all my kitchen scrap. I know people talk about straw and hay, but those things are bulky and I don't have room to store a bale of hay until kitchen scrap catches up nor do I have a compost bin large enough for that much hay. What are people using for brown material? Maybe I could start spread chopped up kitchen scraps on my lawn and let it do its thing. I kid. Just my opinion... I don't worry about it. Compost can be about as simple, or as complicated, as your approach to it. And I like simple. My only issue is whether the stuff has any nasty chemicals on it. For example, a paper towel with certain cleaners on it, will go in the regular rubbish instead. But, generally, kitchen scraps, grass clippings, leaves, pulled weeds (with clumps of soil), and some paper... I just dump it all in. Without attempting any mathematical equations. I use two commercially-sold plastic bins (240 litres each), to alternate filling and aging. I add a bit of water and urine (yes, urine) to the full one. Plus some extra water to the bucket in my kitchen for scraps (dumped in every couple of days.) I don't even put much effort into turning the contents of either bin. But, it works out OK for me. In this particular location, the only thing I might change, is buying some worms. Because my soil is clay-ish and compacted, and has a low natural population of them. Put the worms in the bins instead of your garden. |
#13
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Compost ratio
In article , Persephone
wrote: On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 11:20:00 -0500, Charlie wrote: On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:50:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Apr 10, 11:28*am, "Val" wrote: wrote in message ... There's no way I can compost all my kitchen scrap. I can't believe you said that! That was under the assumption that I needed 30 times the brown material for my kitchen scrap. I have since learned that it is not true. I'm just trying to learn. It might be easy for you because you know how to do it. Last time I tried I thought I could just throw kitchen scrap in a bin outsife. Well, it turned out to be a giant pile of rotten garbage. I guess it was still technically a compost heap, but it's not the way I (or my neighbors) preferred to do it.I didn't know about brown and green or carbon and nitrogen. Even those the composting process is very forgiving and no right or wrong way, there's still good ways and bad ways of doing it. Loosen up your anally engineered sphincter, man. You said it...this isn't really rocket Wouldn't have my sphincter engineered any other way. That part works just fine, unlike my previous attempt at composting. Otherwise just kick back and let it rot, have a beer, relax. None of the web sites said anything about beer being part of composting. I like your method much better! Beer is good for compost, just make sure it goes thru you first! What about female urine, which can contain the chemicals -- hormones; birth control pills; other "products" excreted by many females -- that are now said to be causing distorted development among marine mammals and fish who live in waters that have received these toilet flushings Straight question. Persephone It's your urine and it's your food. I don't see a problem. -- Billy Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/ |
#14
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Compost ratio
In article ,
Coffee's For Closers wrote: In article 2148e628-b790-46ca-90ba- , says... I'm starting trying start my first compost. I keep seeing a carbon to nitrogen ratio of 30:1. Is that by weight or volume? Most kitchen scrap is nitrogen so that's the one I have plenty of but that's the low part of the 30:1 ratio. Winter just thawed out and I have bunch of dried grass on my lawn. Grass clipping is considered green, but is dried grass considered brown (besides the fact that it looks brown)? Can I dry "green" things out and it turns to brown material? Seems like brown is harder to generate in that quantity than green material since lawn is mulched, but is needed in vastly greater quantities. Even using newspaper, that's a lot of newspaper compared to how much kitchen scrap is generated daily. There's no way I can compost all my kitchen scrap. I know people talk about straw and hay, but those things are bulky and I don't have room to store a bale of hay until kitchen scrap catches up nor do I have a compost bin large enough for that much hay. What are people using for brown material? Maybe I could start spread chopped up kitchen scraps on my lawn and let it do its thing. I kid. Just my opinion... I don't worry about it. Compost can be about as simple, or as complicated, as your approach to it. And I like simple. My only issue is whether the stuff has any nasty chemicals on it. For example, a paper towel with certain cleaners on it, will go in the regular rubbish instead. But, generally, kitchen scraps, grass clippings, leaves, pulled weeds (with clumps of soil), and some paper... I just dump it all in. Without attempting any mathematical equations. I use two commercially-sold plastic bins (240 litres each), to alternate filling and aging. I add a bit of water and urine (yes, urine) to the full one. Plus some extra water to the bucket in my kitchen for scraps (dumped in every couple of days.) I don't even put much effort into turning the contents of either bin. But, it works out OK for me. In this particular location, the only thing I might change, is buying some worms. Because my soil is clay-ish and compacted, and has a low natural population of them. If you build it, they will come. -- Billy Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/ |
#15
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Compost ratio
"Billy" wrote in message ... In article , Coffee's For Closers wrote: In article 2148e628-b790-46ca-90ba- , says... I'm starting trying start my first compost. I keep seeing a carbon to nitrogen ratio of 30:1. Is that by weight or volume? Most kitchen scrap is nitrogen so that's the one I have plenty of but that's the low part of the 30:1 ratio. Winter just thawed out and I have bunch of dried grass on my lawn. Grass clipping is considered green, but is dried grass considered brown (besides the fact that it looks brown)? Can I dry "green" things out and it turns to brown material? Seems like brown is harder to generate in that quantity than green material since lawn is mulched, but is needed in vastly greater quantities. Even using newspaper, that's a lot of newspaper compared to how much kitchen scrap is generated daily. There's no way I can compost all my kitchen scrap. I know people talk about straw and hay, but those things are bulky and I don't have room to store a bale of hay until kitchen scrap catches up nor do I have a compost bin large enough for that much hay. What are people using for brown material? Maybe I could start spread chopped up kitchen scraps on my lawn and let it do its thing. I kid. Just my opinion... I don't worry about it. Compost can be about as simple, or as complicated, as your approach to it. And I like simple. My only issue is whether the stuff has any nasty chemicals on it. For example, a paper towel with certain cleaners on it, will go in the regular rubbish instead. But, generally, kitchen scraps, grass clippings, leaves, pulled weeds (with clumps of soil), and some paper... I just dump it all in. Without attempting any mathematical equations. I use two commercially-sold plastic bins (240 litres each), to alternate filling and aging. I add a bit of water and urine (yes, urine) to the full one. Plus some extra water to the bucket in my kitchen for scraps (dumped in every couple of days.) I don't even put much effort into turning the contents of either bin. But, it works out OK for me. In this particular location, the only thing I might change, is buying some worms. Because my soil is clay-ish and compacted, and has a low natural population of them. If you build it, they will come. Exactly my thought. I've never needed to add worms to compost. If I shovel at the right time, there are thousands. |
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