Where can I find instructions for the proper way to trim this
sensitive tree? My Google searches aren't successful. Every time I try
tinkering with the limbs, the entire branch dies... even when I trim
at a joint.

On 7/14/2008 3:03 PM, jaygreg wrote:
Where can I find instructions for the proper way to trim this
sensitive tree? My Google searches aren't successful. Every time I try
tinkering with the limbs, the entire branch dies... even when I trim
at a joint.

In general, oaks should be pruned only to remove dead growth and
eliminate crossing branches.

Because my valley white oak (Quercus lobata) has branches extending out
over a public street, I must keep it trimmed so that trash trucks and
street sweepers can drive under it. The county standard is 12 ft above
the pavement. For this, I use a licensed tree specialist.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at http://www.rossde.com/garden/

In article
,
jaygreg wrote:

Where can I find instructions for the proper way to trim this
sensitive tree? My Google searches aren't successful. Every time I try
tinkering with the limbs, the entire branch dies... even when I trim
at a joint.

If you're pruning lower branches, if the rest of the limb is shaded by
higher branches, the shaded branch may well die because it is no longer
fed by sufficient length of foliaged branch. Mine's a hardy tree that
never needs pruning; I got it as a slim but very tall pot-grown tree and
it had lost its lwoer branches from overshading, but has never needed even
one bad limb removed since I planted it a few years ago, and it's now much
taller than our two-story house. Absolutely care-free tree.

I can't help but wonder if your own limb loss is not from pruning but from
the pruning being "one stress too many" and the tree should be checked for
insect stress, borer holes, bark cracks; its watering schedule should be
measured so as to never be too dry during heat-stressing months
(especially a young tree), nor poor drainage in rainy periods. It can have
moisture-stress if overwatered or in soil that drains badly; and the soil
should not be at all alkaline. When to prune is partly dependent on where
you live. Pin oaks generally prefer to be pruned (if at all) in mid-summer
or in winter; the leaf development is very active in spring, roots are
working doubletime in autumn sucking energy back from the leaves, which is
why it stresses them to be pruned spring or autumn -- but check for any
different advice specific to where you live. Winter pruning is easiest for
really assessing the tree's structure, but summer for assessing which
limbs are healthiest.

If it's oozing dark hardening sap at any point it's probably a doomed tree
in slow decline, nothing can be done as that's usually pathogenic. If not
stressed by any other factors it should be easy to give it a high-summer
or winter pruning for shaping purposes without risk of loss of limbs. A
maturing tree shouldn't need any pruning, however, unless a limb craps out
then it should be removed entirely, or unless it has annoyingly tried to
grow with two or three leaders the extras needing removal.

You should check out a library book on pruning if you've any questions;
net advice can be iffy, and since my pin oak thrives without any pruning
at all, I won't even promise my sense of what's best is guaranteed
correct. And there are some niceties of pruning angles and the like that
are easiest to understand with a book that has some drawings on the topic.

-pagaht the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com
visit my film reviews website:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

On Jul 14, 8:03 pm, (paghat) wrote:
In article
,

jaygreg wrote:
Where can I find instructions for the proper way to trim this
sensitive tree? My Google searches aren't successful. Every time I try
tinkering with the limbs, the entire branch dies... even when I trim
at a joint.

If you're pruning lower branches, if the rest of the limb is shaded by
higher branches, the shaded branch may well die because it is no longer
fed by sufficient length of foliaged branch. Mine's a hardy tree that
never needs pruning; I got it as a slim but very tall pot-grown tree and
it had lost its lwoer branches from overshading, but has never needed even
one bad limb removed since I planted it a few years ago, and it's now much
taller than our two-story house. Absolutely care-free tree.

I can't help but wonder if your own limb loss is not from pruning but from
the pruning being "one stress too many" and the tree should be checked for
insect stress, borer holes, bark cracks; its watering schedule should be
measured so as to never be too dry during heat-stressing months
(especially a young tree), nor poor drainage in rainy periods. It can have
moisture-stress if overwatered or in soil that drains badly; and the soil
should not be at all alkaline. When to prune is partly dependent on where
you live. Pin oaks generally prefer to be pruned (if at all) in mid-summer
or in winter; the leaf development is very active in spring, roots are
working doubletime in autumn sucking energy back from the leaves, which is
why it stresses them to be pruned spring or autumn -- but check for any
different advice specific to where you live. Winter pruning is easiest for
really assessing the tree's structure, but summer for assessing which
limbs are healthiest.

If it's oozing dark hardening sap at any point it's probably a doomed tree
in slow decline, nothing can be done as that's usually pathogenic. If not
stressed by any other factors it should be easy to give it a high-summer
or winter pruning for shaping purposes without risk of loss of limbs. A
maturing tree shouldn't need any pruning, however, unless a limb craps out
then it should be removed entirely, or unless it has annoyingly tried to
grow with two or three leaders the extras needing removal.

You should check out a library book on pruning if you've any questions;
net advice can be iffy, and since my pin oak thrives without any pruning
at all, I won't even promise my sense of what's best is guaranteed
correct. And there are some niceties of pruning angles and the like that
are easiest to understand with a book that has some drawings on the topic.

-pagaht the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:http://www.paghat.com
visit my film reviews website:http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

Anyone know of a forum that focuses on growing trees? I doubt if this
is rocket science once one knows the general rules of how and when to
cut. The 75 foot tree is healthy but some of its lower branches are
overhanging the sidewalk and pose a hazard to citizen. Some are also
about to touch the roofs of tall vehicles that may enter my driveway
from time to time.

Perhaps there is no pattern nor special approach beyond the norm for
trimming pin oaks.

You best bet is http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/TPRUNING.html

The book is called the World Wide Pruning Guide.

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...ing/index.html

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that
will give them understanding.


"jaygreg" wrote in message
...
Where can I find instructions for the proper way to trim this
sensitive tree? My Google searches aren't successful. Every time I try
tinkering with the limbs, the entire branch dies... even when I trim
at a joint.

Jay

GREAT QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also MODERN ARBORICULTURE is a systematic approach to the care of trees.
You should treat the system and not just the wound. The book MODERN
ARBORICULTURE has large drawings and small amount of lucid words. This
should help you make sound decisions on treatments to your tree based on a
thorough understanding of tree biology.



Two Books For You. To remove branches correctly takes a understanding of
how branches are attached to trees. Your question is a good one and these
two books should be in your library or they can get them or just go to
www.shigoandtrees.com to order.
Suggested Readings on Pruning Roots, Branches and Sprouts as well as other
Tree System Treatments of Value (TOP QUALITY)

Pruning is just one treatment. Treatment of the tree system is very
important. I suggest MODERN ARBORICULTURE as a guide. When a tree is
wounded, you should not treat only the wound but the entire tree. When in
doubt about a treatment, go slowly and lightly.


Many tree problems are associated with the following: They are Case
Sensitive.

Unhealthy Trees from the Nursery / Improper Planting
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20..._planting.html

Improper Mulching -
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/mulch.html

Improper Pruning
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning

Improper Fertilization (See A Touch of Chemistry)
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html

Tree Farming and Related Problems
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

Troubles in the Rhizosphere
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that
will give them understanding.

"symplastless" wrote in message
...
You best bet is http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/TPRUNING.html

The book is called the World Wide Pruning Guide.

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...ing/index.html

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding
us that we are not the boss.
Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books
that will give them understanding.


"jaygreg" wrote in message
...
Where can I find instructions for the proper way to trim this
sensitive tree? My Google searches aren't successful. Every time I try
tinkering with the limbs, the entire branch dies... even when I trim
at a joint.

Sorry, the links
WORLDWIDE PRUNING GUIDE http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/TPRUNING.html

MODERN ARBORICULTURE http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/MARBOR.html

Once you have the books you can get help with questions at


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Tree Biologist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.
Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that
will give them understanding.

"jaygreg" wrote in message
...
Where can I find instructions for the proper way to trim this
sensitive tree? My Google searches aren't successful. Every time I try
tinkering with the limbs, the entire branch dies... even when I trim
at a joint.

On Jul 14, 6:03�pm, jaygreg wrote:
Where can I find instructions for the proper way to trim this
sensitive tree? My Google searches aren't successful. Every time I try
tinkering with the limbs, the entire branch dies... even when I trim
at a joint.

Pin oak branches similar to spruce, with either once the portion with
leaves/needles is fully removed it won't leaf out again and the entire
branch will die. Like spruce, pin oaks look best and grow best when
permitted to branch all the way to the ground in as piramidal form...
refrain from trimming/shearing pin oak. There are many trees whose
natural form is to branch all the way to the gound but for all sorts
of reasons, even for no good reason at all, folks insist that every
type of tree needs to have a bare trunk... these are the pinheads...
another poor tree that always seems to have it's lower branches raped
is beech.

In article
,
Sheldon wrote:

On Jul 14, 6:03=EF=BF=BDpm, jaygreg wrote:
Where can I find instructions for the proper way to trim this
sensitive tree? My Google searches aren't successful. Every time I try
tinkering with the limbs, the entire branch dies... even when I trim
at a joint.

Pin oak branches similar to spruce, with either once the portion with
leaves/needles is fully removed it won't leaf out again and the entire
branch will die. Like spruce, pin oaks look best and grow best when
permitted to branch all the way to the ground in as piramidal form...
refrain from trimming/shearing pin oak. There are many trees whose
natural form is to branch all the way to the gound but for all sorts
of reasons, even for no good reason at all, folks insist that every
type of tree needs to have a bare trunk... these are the pinheads...
another poor tree that always seems to have it's lower branches raped
is beech.

Many pin oaks lose their lower branches naturally, such as when growing in
thickets where the lwoer branches are too little sunned, and never-pruned
specimens are frequently encountered with length of bare trunk with none
of the "classic" touching-the-ground branches. Whether underlimed
intentionally or naturally I think they look just as good, certainly
there's no tree health issue against it. And although the pyramid that
touches the ground shape of a smallish to medium sized tree is often seen,
for way bigger old specimens, they seem to become oval and naturally drop
their lowest branches and have no drooping branches remaining.

In the main I think you're right, it's not a tree that calls for pruning,
especially if it's in teh right spot to not get in the way. Some city and
town regulations won't permit it, though, the "minimum of eight feet above
the sidewalk" or "twelve feet above the road" rule is common, and if you
don't due, some turds in a truck working for the city will come by one day
and butcher the tree swiftly and with no concern for how it looks.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com
visit my film reviews website:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

On 7/15/2008 6:36 PM, paghat wrote [in part]:
Some city and
town regulations won't permit it, though, the "minimum of eight feet above
the sidewalk" or "twelve feet above the road" rule is common, and if you
don't due, some turds in a truck working for the city will come by one day
and butcher the tree swiftly and with no concern for how it looks.

And definitely no concern for the health of the tree.

Over a 30+ year period, the County would trim the trees growing the the
parkway on our block (Japanese zelkovas, Z. serrata). (Parkway: the
strip of landscape between the sidewalk and the street.) Through good
luck, I was always home on those days (even before I retired) and shooed
the County's crew away from my tree.

My neighbor was not so lucky and did not even care. Then, about 3-4
years ago, on a summer day without a breeze moving, I heard a crash.
Going outside, I saw that the trunk of my neighbor's zelkova had split
from the lowest branches to the ground. The result completely blocked
the street, with branch tips reaching the sidewalk across the street.

The problem was that the County's pruning efforts resulted in weak
V-shaped crotches where branches met. My own pruning efforts -- later
followed by the professional tree service that I now use -- resulted in
stronger U-shaped crotches.

A tree that shaded the south side of my neighbor's house -- very
important when summer temperatures always exceed 100F -- and was worth
several thousands of dollars was lost because of hasty, incorrect
pruning by the County.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at http://www.rossde.com/garden/

On Jul 15, 9:36 pm, (paghat) wrote:
In article
,



Sheldon wrote:
On Jul 14, 6:03=EF=BF=BDpm, jaygreg wrote:
Where can I find instructions for the proper way to trim this
sensitive tree? My Google searches aren't successful. Every time I try
tinkering with the limbs, the entire branch dies... even when I trim
at a joint.

Pin oak branches similar to spruce, with either once the portion with
leaves/needles is fully removed it won't leaf out again and the entire
branch will die. Like spruce, pin oaks look best and grow best when
permitted to branch all the way to the ground in as piramidal form...
refrain from trimming/shearing pin oak. There are many trees whose
natural form is to branch all the way to the gound but for all sorts
of reasons, even for no good reason at all, folks insist that every
type of tree needs to have a bare trunk... these are the pinheads...
another poor tree that always seems to have it's lower branches raped
is beech.

Many pin oaks lose their lower branches naturally, such as when growing in
thickets where the lwoer branches are too little sunned, and never-pruned
specimens are frequently encountered with length of bare trunk with none
of the "classic" touching-the-ground branches. Whether underlimed
intentionally or naturally I think they look just as good, certainly
there's no tree health issue against it. And although the pyramid that
touches the ground shape of a smallish to medium sized tree is often seen,
for way bigger old specimens, they seem to become oval and naturally drop
their lowest branches and have no drooping branches remaining.

In the main I think you're right, it's not a tree that calls for pruning,
especially if it's in teh right spot to not get in the way. Some city and
town regulations won't permit it, though, the "minimum of eight feet above
the sidewalk" or "twelve feet above the road" rule is common, and if you
don't due, some turds in a truck working for the city will come by one day
and butcher the tree swiftly and with no concern for how it looks.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:http://www.paghat.com
visit my film reviews website:http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

"minimum of eight feet above
the sidewalk" or "twelve feet above the road" rule is common,

That's my plight!