Billy,

Thanks for the information.

Not knowing any more / better, would not have thought an organic product would not have
been toxic to bees.

With a declining bee population - last thing I want to do is unwittingly further reduce
their numbers.

In this instance - the product would be used as a drench, and therefore not provide for
typical / traditional bee contact.

Regards,

Doug



PRECAUTIONARY STATEMENTS
ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARDS
This product is toxic to bees exposed to treatment for 3 hours following
treatment. Do not apply this pesticide to blooming, pollen-shedding or
nectar-producing parts of plants if bees may forage on the plants during
this time period. This product is toxic to aquatic invertebrates

However, why do you think the ants are causing the problem with your
gardenia? Unless they're herding aphids, I don't see how the ants
would hurt the plant. Are the ants fire ants, is that why you want to
get rid of them? Is there damage on the leaves that looks like insect
damage?

And what kind of fertilizer did you use? If the leaf yellowing
happened right after you fertilized, have you considered that the
fertilizer is the issue? Have you checked your soil pH? How much
water has the gardenia been getting?



Penelope

http://www.afpmb.org/pubs/standardli...-6583_msds.pdf
ECOTOXICOLOGY:
Based largely or completely on information for spinosad:
Material is highly toxic to aquatic invertebrates on an
acute basis (LC50 or EC50 is between 0.1 and 1 mg/L).
Material is moderately toxic to fish on an acute basis
(LC50 is between 1 and 10 mg/L).
snip

Acute contact LD50 in honeybee (apis mellifera) is
---- 0.05 micrograms = 0.00005 g/bee.----
Translation: incredibly toxic to bees

How about repotting after hosing-off the roots?

In article ,
"Douglas R. Hortvet, Jr." wrote:

Billy,

Thanks for the information.

Not knowing any more / better, would not have thought an organic product
would not have
been toxic to bees.

With a declining bee population - last thing I want to do is unwittingly
further reduce
their numbers.

In this instance - the product would be used as a drench, and therefore not
provide for
typical / traditional bee contact.

Regards,

Doug

You may want to look at this article, excerpt below

http://extension.osu.edu/~news/story.php?id=2849

Another indication of

magnolia scale

results from the large quantities of sap sucked from the plant as scales
feed. The sap provides a low-protein, high-sugar diet, and in order for
the scale to obtain adequate amounts of protein, the insect must ingest
excessive amounts of sap. Much of this sap is excreted by the scales,
which produces a clear, sticky, sugary substance known as honeydew.

This honeydew coats twigs, leaves and anything under infested branches,
including cars and patio furniture.
If the honeydew is not removed, a more obvious, unattractive

black fungus known as sooty mold

begins to grow.
This is often the first symptom of infestation that people notice, Herms
said. Yellow jackets, wasps and

ants

also are good indicators of infestations as they are often

attracted to the sweet honeydew

on which they feed.

Magnolia trees that host a large population of scale insects can be
drained of energy, resulting in small, yellowing leaves, twig dieback,
thinning canopy and even death. Generally, the plants tolerate small
infestations fairly well, which allows homeowners time to implement a
management program before the problem escalates, Herms said.
-----

If you still want to go after the ants, in a responsible manner
http://www.grinningplanet.com/2004/0...ller-article.h
tm
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn