(my apologies for the title - I'm a Trekkie. Just bought a Spock
shirt, in fact)

Anyway, today I called numerous places, and visited several large
stores and garden centers in search for "Composted Cow Manure".

In the past, I've been able to find this stuff everywhere in the
Spring. Even small hardware stores had bags of it outside the store for
adding to the garden soil.

Now, they all seem to have bags of "topsoil" instead, or maybe a bag
of humus. The small garden center where I stopped this afternoon said
they had 40 pound bags of (and I quote) "hummus". Now I like hummus,
but usually on crackers, and not as a soil amendment. I'm assuming that
guy doesn't put this on his crackers, hopefully.

Anyway, I tried Kroger's, Mal-Mart, hardware stores, and none of them
had plain old 100% composted cow manure. Mal-Mart did have "compost
WITH cow manure", but I wanted the nutrient rich cow manure compost that
I'm used to putting under trees, shrubs and vegetable plants when I put
them in the ground. I'm a crotchety young gardener who is used to doing
things about the same way as I was taught when I was 3, and I'm
wondering where the poop went.

Is there a national shortage of poop that I'm not aware of? A poop
embargo of some foreign country that gives us more crap than anybody else?

Ah, if only I had this guy nearby.....
http://www.artpricer.info/wp-content...phant-poop.jpg

Ohioguy wrote:
(my apologies for the title - I'm a Trekkie. Just bought a Spock
shirt, in fact)

Anyway, today I called numerous places, and visited several large
stores and garden centers in search for "Composted Cow Manure".

In the past, I've been able to find this stuff everywhere in the
Spring. Even small hardware stores had bags of it outside the store for
adding to the garden soil.

Now, they all seem to have bags of "topsoil" instead, or maybe a bag
of humus. The small garden center where I stopped this afternoon said
they had 40 pound bags of (and I quote) "hummus". Now I like hummus,
but usually on crackers, and not as a soil amendment. I'm assuming that
guy doesn't put this on his crackers, hopefully.

Anyway, I tried Kroger's, Mal-Mart, hardware stores, and none of them
had plain old 100% composted cow manure. Mal-Mart did have "compost
WITH cow manure", but I wanted the nutrient rich cow manure compost that
I'm used to putting under trees, shrubs and vegetable plants when I put
them in the ground. I'm a crotchety young gardener who is used to doing
things about the same way as I was taught when I was 3, and I'm
wondering where the poop went.

Is there a national shortage of poop that I'm not aware of? A poop
embargo of some foreign country that gives us more crap than anybody else?

Ah, if only I had this guy nearby.....
http://www.artpricer.info/wp-content...phant-poop.jpg


When planting trees and bushes and tomato plants, you can always put a
shovelful of the ever-present dog shit into the hole, then cover it up
a bit before you set the plant.

Bob

In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

Ohioguy wrote:
(my apologies for the title - I'm a Trekkie. Just bought a Spock
shirt, in fact)

Anyway, today I called numerous places, and visited several large
stores and garden centers in search for "Composted Cow Manure".

In the past, I've been able to find this stuff everywhere in the
Spring. Even small hardware stores had bags of it outside the store for
adding to the garden soil.

Now, they all seem to have bags of "topsoil" instead, or maybe a bag
of humus. The small garden center where I stopped this afternoon said
they had 40 pound bags of (and I quote) "hummus". Now I like hummus,
but usually on crackers, and not as a soil amendment. I'm assuming that
guy doesn't put this on his crackers, hopefully.

Anyway, I tried Kroger's, Mal-Mart, hardware stores, and none of them
had plain old 100% composted cow manure. Mal-Mart did have "compost
WITH cow manure", but I wanted the nutrient rich cow manure compost that
I'm used to putting under trees, shrubs and vegetable plants when I put
them in the ground. I'm a crotchety young gardener who is used to doing
things about the same way as I was taught when I was 3, and I'm
wondering where the poop went.

Is there a national shortage of poop that I'm not aware of? A poop
embargo of some foreign country that gives us more crap than anybody else?

Ah, if only I had this guy nearby.....
http://www.artpricer.info/wp-content...phant-poop.jpg


When planting trees and bushes and tomato plants, you can always put a
shovelful of the ever-present dog shit into the hole, then cover it up
a bit before you set the plant.

Bob

Never use cat, dog, or pig manure in vegetable gardens or compost piles.
Parasites that may be in these types of manure are more likely to
survive and infect people than those in other types of manure. It is
also important to keep your pets out of your vegetable garden.
http://www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepubs/htmpubs/2510.htm
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

Never use cat, dog, or pig manure in vegetable gardens or
compost piles.
Parasites that may be in these types of manure are more
likely to
survive and infect people than those in other types of
manure. It is
also important to keep your pets out of your vegetable
garden.
http://www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepubs/htmpubs/2510.htm
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism
because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

any manure from an animal that eats meat or will eat meat
(including humans)
can and has kept the e-coli bacteria cycle active. So, no,
never use this type
of "manure" on your garden(s). Natural grass eater (cow,
horses, etc)
should never be fed any type of animal by-product as it,
too, can and has
transferred e-coli. Slaughter houses where making extra $$
at our health
expense. I do have concerns seeing cow manure mixed with
water and then
used to fertilize fields. These same fields are utilized as
pasture or for
making hay bales. So back into the cow it goes.

And e-coli is another reason why everyone should wash their
raw vegtables
bought from a chain store, such as strawberries, lettuce.
It's not hard to
figure out why.

I'm very grateful that I live in a small enough town that
uses not use recycle
human waste. The larger municipal's state that their water
meets EPA
guidelines for drinking water. Guidelines are not good
enough for me.
They can make all the claims they want regardings recycling
human waste
products and it's safety, but, nope, I aint a gonna drink
it.

Donna
in WA zone 8-9

Lelandite wrote:

Never use cat, dog, or pig manure in vegetable gardens or compost piles.
Parasites that may be in these types of manure are more likely to
survive and infect people than those in other types of manure. It is
also important to keep your pets out of your vegetable garden.
http://www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepubs/htmpubs/2510.htm
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

any manure from an animal that eats meat or will eat meat (including
humans)
can and has kept the e-coli bacteria cycle active. So, no, never use
this type
of "manure" on your garden(s). Natural grass eater (cow, horses, etc)
should never be fed any type of animal by-product as it, too, can and has
transferred e-coli. Slaughter houses where making extra $$ at our health
expense. I do have concerns seeing cow manure mixed with water and then
used to fertilize fields. These same fields are utilized as pasture or for
making hay bales. So back into the cow it goes.

And e-coli is another reason why everyone should wash their raw vegtables
bought from a chain store, such as strawberries, lettuce. It's not hard to
figure out why.

I'm very grateful that I live in a small enough town that uses not use
recycle
human waste. The larger municipal's state that their water meets EPA
guidelines for drinking water. Guidelines are not good enough for me.
They can make all the claims they want regardings recycling human waste
products and it's safety, but, nope, I aint a gonna drink it.

Donna
in WA zone 8-9



You do realize that position is not sustainable? All water is
recycled waste by now. The same water gets used over and over again
countless times. Cow manure has been fertilizing grazing fields for eons.

Bob

In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

Lelandite wrote:

Never use cat, dog, or pig manure in vegetable gardens or compost piles.
Parasites that may be in these types of manure are more likely to
survive and infect people than those in other types of manure. It is
also important to keep your pets out of your vegetable garden.
http://www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepubs/htmpubs/2510.htm
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

any manure from an animal that eats meat or will eat meat (including
humans)
can and has kept the e-coli bacteria cycle active. So, no, never use
this type
of "manure" on your garden(s). Natural grass eater (cow, horses, etc)
should never be fed any type of animal by-product as it, too, can and has
transferred e-coli. Slaughter houses where making extra $$ at our health
expense. I do have concerns seeing cow manure mixed with water and then
used to fertilize fields. These same fields are utilized as pasture or for
making hay bales. So back into the cow it goes.

And e-coli is another reason why everyone should wash their raw vegtables
bought from a chain store, such as strawberries, lettuce.

Most species of E. coli are harmless and serve to crowd out pathogens in
our intestines. O157:H7 E. coli is a different matter. It arose from
feed lot operations (CAFO), and has been responsible for a number of
deaths from spinach to undercooked hamburgers. The presence of E. coli
indicates fecal contamination.

It's not hard to
figure out why.

I'm very grateful that I live in a small enough town that uses not use
recycle
human waste. The larger municipal's state that their water meets EPA
guidelines for drinking water. Guidelines are not good enough for me.
They can make all the claims they want regardings recycling human waste
products and it's safety, but, nope, I aint a gonna drink it.

Donna
in WA zone 8-9



You do realize that position is not sustainable? All water is
recycled waste by now. The same water gets used over and over again
countless times. Cow manure has been fertilizing grazing fields for eons.

Bob
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

Lelandite wrote:
And e-coli is another reason why everyone should wash their
raw vegtables
bought from a chain store, such as strawberries, lettuce.
It's not hard to
figure out why.

I'm very grateful that I live in a small enough town that
uses not use recycle
human waste. The larger municipal's state that their water
meets EPA
guidelines for drinking water. Guidelines are not good
enough for me.
They can make all the claims they want regardings recycling
human waste
products and it's safety, but, nope, I aint a gonna drink
it.


All the water that you drink has been recycled many many times whether it
has been through a plant designated for the purpose or not. You are showing
a reaction to the yuk factor which is not rational.

All my drinking water comes from my roof. Some people say 'eeew don't birds
shit on your roof'. I tell them they sure do and you are drinking it right
now. Highly sophisticated water supply systems in rich countries have 'do
not drink' scares from time to time.

I also lived in a small town that did not use "recycled" water but took it
from the river, all natural as nature intended. When the area went into
drought the river would get lower and lower and the water plant would add
more and more chlorine to counteract the ever growing bacterial count from
dead animals, their faeces, sediments that had been stirred up etc.

The path that the water takes to get to your tap is not the only factor that
determines if it is safe, all the possible pathways may get contaminated.
EPA testing is one way to know what the quality of your water is. But it
cannot counteract the yuk factor.

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Lelandite wrote:
And e-coli is another reason why everyone should wash their
raw vegtables
bought from a chain store, such as strawberries, lettuce.
It's not hard to
figure out why.

I'm very grateful that I live in a small enough town that
uses not use recycle
human waste. The larger municipal's state that their water
meets EPA
guidelines for drinking water. Guidelines are not good
enough for me.
They can make all the claims they want regardings recycling
human waste
products and it's safety, but, nope, I aint a gonna drink
it.


All the water that you drink has been recycled many many times whether it
has been through a plant designated for the purpose or not. You are showing
a reaction to the yuk factor which is not rational.

All my drinking water comes from my roof. Some people say 'eeew don't birds
shit on your roof'. I tell them they sure do and you are drinking it right
now. Highly sophisticated water supply systems in rich countries have 'do
not drink' scares from time to time.

I also lived in a small town that did not use "recycled" water but took it
from the river, all natural as nature intended. When the area went into
drought the river would get lower and lower and the water plant would add
more and more chlorine to counteract the ever growing bacterial count from
dead animals, their faeces, sediments that had been stirred up etc.

The path that the water takes to get to your tap is not the only factor that
determines if it is safe, all the possible pathways may get contaminated.
EPA testing is one way to know what the quality of your water is. But it
cannot counteract the yuk factor.

David

A few people in the suburbs that are sick of the high cost of their
water bills, they are installing their own roof water collecting into
cisterns. They run the water though their own purification system and
have plenty of water that meets their entire water needs at a 10 tenth
the cost of city water. Many say the system pays for itself in less than
three years.

I have a well system. Someday I may put in a cistern for the garden.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

Ohioguy wrote:
(my apologies for the title - I'm a Trekkie. Just bought a Spock
shirt, in fact)

Anyway, today I called numerous places, and visited several large
stores and garden centers in search for "Composted Cow Manure".

In the past, I've been able to find this stuff everywhere in the
Spring. Even small hardware stores had bags of it outside the store for
adding to the garden soil.

Now, they all seem to have bags of "topsoil" instead, or maybe a bag
of humus. The small garden center where I stopped this afternoon said
they had 40 pound bags of (and I quote) "hummus". Now I like hummus,
but usually on crackers, and not as a soil amendment. I'm assuming that
guy doesn't put this on his crackers, hopefully.

Anyway, I tried Kroger's, Mal-Mart, hardware stores, and none of them
had plain old 100% composted cow manure. Mal-Mart did have "compost
WITH cow manure", but I wanted the nutrient rich cow manure compost that
I'm used to putting under trees, shrubs and vegetable plants when I put
them in the ground. I'm a crotchety young gardener who is used to doing
things about the same way as I was taught when I was 3, and I'm
wondering where the poop went.

Is there a national shortage of poop that I'm not aware of? A poop
embargo of some foreign country that gives us more crap than anybody else?


I am curious as to what part of the country you live in, and wondering
if it may be a "local" shortage there. I live in SW lower Michigan, and
every home center, garden center and supermarket around here has all the
40 lb. bags of cow manure in stock you could want - and ironically, at a
lower price than I've seen it in the past! But that's not helping you
so I'd say the following:

1) Keep looking! It may turn up somewhere.

2) The "humus" is likely Scott's bagged "Humus and Manure" - also
relatively inexpensive, and the closest thing to bagged composted cow
manure I've seen. IMO, it's you're next best bet.

3) Unlike the previous respondent "Bob", I do not recommend the use of
dog or cat manure in your garden. I have read for years - and just again
recently - that they are the two types of domestic manure not
recommended for any garden use, though I admit I can't point you to any
specific articles on that topic off the top of my head.

I sympathize - composted cow manure is a favorite of mine, too. Good
luck in the search, though.

Tony

In article ,
Tony wrote:

Ohioguy wrote:
(my apologies for the title - I'm a Trekkie. Just bought a Spock
shirt, in fact)

Anyway, today I called numerous places, and visited several large
stores and garden centers in search for "Composted Cow Manure".

In the past, I've been able to find this stuff everywhere in the
Spring. Even small hardware stores had bags of it outside the store for
adding to the garden soil.

Now, they all seem to have bags of "topsoil" instead, or maybe a bag
of humus. The small garden center where I stopped this afternoon said
they had 40 pound bags of (and I quote) "hummus". Now I like hummus,
but usually on crackers, and not as a soil amendment. I'm assuming that
guy doesn't put this on his crackers, hopefully.

Anyway, I tried Kroger's, Mal-Mart, hardware stores, and none of them
had plain old 100% composted cow manure. Mal-Mart did have "compost
WITH cow manure", but I wanted the nutrient rich cow manure compost that
I'm used to putting under trees, shrubs and vegetable plants when I put
them in the ground. I'm a crotchety young gardener who is used to doing
things about the same way as I was taught when I was 3, and I'm
wondering where the poop went.

Is there a national shortage of poop that I'm not aware of? A poop
embargo of some foreign country that gives us more crap than anybody else?


I am curious as to what part of the country you live in, and wondering
if it may be a "local" shortage there. I live in SW lower Michigan, and
every home center, garden center and supermarket around here has all the
40 lb. bags of cow manure in stock you could want - and ironically, at a
lower price than I've seen it in the past! But that's not helping you
so I'd say the following:

1) Keep looking! It may turn up somewhere.

2) The "humus" is likely Scott's bagged "Humus and Manure" - also
relatively inexpensive, and the closest thing to bagged composted cow
manure I've seen. IMO, it's you're next best bet.

3) Unlike the previous respondent "Bob", I do not recommend the use of
dog or cat manure in your garden. I have read for years - and just again
recently - that they are the two types of domestic manure not
recommended for any garden use, though I admit I can't point you to any
specific articles on that topic off the top of my head.

I sympathize - composted cow manure is a favorite of mine, too. Good
luck in the search, though.

Tony

Not to worry Amazon will sell you 40 Lb of shit for $4 shipping is
about $12 extra.

Its a stranger world after all springs to mind.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?
If our food is impacted on what we ate ate
Does it follow that when we cite we should see who they cited?

I am curious as to what part of the country you live in, and wondering
if it may be a "local" shortage there.

I'm in SW Ohio. As I said, 10 years ago, all the big stores and
hardware stores had bags of composted cow manure this time of year.
Right now, I only found one small garden center that carried it, but had
sold out, and Meijer, where I ended up getting bags for $1.19 each.

All the other places only had bags of topsoil, humus, "humus with
composted cow manure" (but didn't tell how much of each), and mulch.

Ohioguy wrote:
I am curious as to what part of the country you live in, and
wondering if it may be a "local" shortage there.

I'm in SW Ohio. As I said, 10 years ago, all the big stores and
hardware stores had bags of composted cow manure this time of year.
Right now, I only found one small garden center that carried it, but had
sold out, and Meijer, where I ended up getting bags for $1.19 each.

All the other places only had bags of topsoil, humus, "humus with
composted cow manure" (but didn't tell how much of each), and mulch.



Maybe that's what it was all along and they got in trouble for
mislabeling it.

Bib

In article , Ohioguy
wrote:

I am curious as to what part of the country you live in, and wondering
if it may be a "local" shortage there.

I'm in SW Ohio. As I said, 10 years ago, all the big stores and
hardware stores had bags of composted cow manure this time of year.
Right now, I only found one small garden center that carried it, but had
sold out, and Meijer, where I ended up getting bags for $1.19 each.

All the other places only had bags of topsoil, humus, "humus with
composted cow manure" (but didn't tell how much of each), and mulch.

Why the need for cow manure? I gave you a comparative list of manures so
that you could adjust your application.

Conversion factors

Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit Sheep
N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4 .70
P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4 .30
K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60 .90
Http://www.plantea.com/manuer.htm

Manure Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
N 3 5
P 1 1
K 2 1



Ex. Say you want to add 20 lbs of cow manure to a 100 sq. ft. bed but
all you have is chicken manure.

N for cow manure is .257 and 1.1 for chicken manure.

(1.1N) X (?lbs chicken) = (.257N) X (20 lbs cow)
? lbs chicken = [(.257N)/(1.1N)](20 lbs cow)
? lbs chicken = 4.7 lbs
4.7 lbs chicken = 20 lbs cow

Plus you would get a little extra phosphorus (good for flowering and
roots). You may want to add a pound or two of wood ash though.
It would also be good to add 15 lbs of organic material (or compost) of
your choice.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

Is there a national shortage of poop that I'm not aware of? A poop
embargo of some foreign country that gives us more crap than anybody
else?

In places that have cattle on pasture and dung beetles availability of
manure is seasonal. In the summer the beetles will destroy each pat in an
matter of days and so picking them up is difficult and hardly worth the
trouble. Turd harvesting is therefore restricted to the winter. I have no
idea if you have dung beetles in your area. In areas where cattle are in
feedlots this would not apply.

David

Ohioguy wrote:


Is there a national shortage of poop that I'm not aware of? A poop
embargo of some foreign country that gives us more crap than anybody else?



It's very possible that the sale has been prohibited due to the danger
of BSE (mad cow disease.) Do you have any dairy or cattle farms nearby?


gloria p