On 8/5/10 1:17 AM, in article
, "Gary Brown"
wrote:


"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Gary Brown wrote:
Hi,

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to
put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing
soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

It depends on the existing composition of your soil. If it is
well balanced and you just want to increase the volume add a
good loam. If it is not balanced add whatever is missing in
greater amounts.

We live on a drumlin, which is a hill that was stripped bare by
the last ice age. The soil is poor and rocky.
Ah - some one who knows the proper terms!

How much manure should I add per cubic foot of soil? We have
cow manure available commercially here. How deep?
Honestly - I'd be doing close to 50-50 your soil to manure. Not knowing
where you are, look around to have some one deliver enough in one aromatic
load; local farmers, stable owners, alpacas (currently in style here) and
such.

I have friends that tell wonderful tales of having 4 yards of horse manure
delivered....

Who is doing this work? How has the drainage been handled?

Me, with a pick-axe and shovel.

I'll assume you've done your homework.
We have a supply of sand.
Would adding some of that help?
Only if you have clay in your soil or there is some in what ever soil you
might end up bringing in. Great for drainage...


Cheryl

Gary Brown wrote:
We live on a drumlin, which is a hill that was stripped bare by
the last ice age. The soil is poor and rocky.

A drumlin is a pile of boulders, cobbles, gravels, and coarse sand
deposited by a glacier. A hill stripped bare by a glacier is a
roche moutonnée.


How much manure should I add per cubic foot of soil? We have
cow manure available commercially here. How deep?

Ask the question: how much manure per SQUARE foot of area you
want to improve. Talk to your county ag extension agent or soil
conservation office. Ask for the name of the kind of soil you
have there now. Likely the soil conservation agency has a good
soils map. Ask about soil amendments, and if you should add
clay or try to adjust the pH.

What vegetation do you want to grow there? Crevice plants like
small quantities of very rich soil. Manure mixed with a small
fraction of coarse sand and of humus will suit them.

Una

In article ,
Cheryl Isaak wrote:

On 8/5/10 1:17 AM, in article
, "Gary Brown"
wrote:


"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Gary Brown wrote:
Hi,

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to
put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing
soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

It depends on the existing composition of your soil. If it is
well balanced and you just want to increase the volume add a
good loam. If it is not balanced add whatever is missing in
greater amounts.

We live on a drumlin, which is a hill that was stripped bare by
the last ice age. The soil is poor and rocky.
Ah - some one who knows the proper terms!

How much manure should I add per cubic foot of soil? We have
cow manure available commercially here. How deep?
Honestly - I'd be doing close to 50-50 your soil to manure. Not knowing
where you are, look around to have some one deliver enough in one aromatic
load; local farmers, stable owners, alpacas (currently in style here) and
such.

I have friends that tell wonderful tales of having 4 yards of horse manure
delivered....

Who is doing this work? How has the drainage been handled?

Me, with a pick-axe and shovel.

I'll assume you've done your homework.
We have a supply of sand.
Would adding some of that help?
Only if you have clay in your soil or there is some in what ever soil you
might end up bringing in. Great for drainage...


Cheryl

Cheryl, there still seem to be too many loose ends here, including the
composition of the soil. What kind of plants are we talking about, woody
perennials, or soft annuals? While, in my hubris, I don't always agree
with Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Horticulturist and Associate
Professor, Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State
University, I still think it is instructive to consider her opinions.
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...ltural%20Myths
_files/Myths/Amendments%204.pdf
Of particular concern is the production and leaching of nutrients
produced from a formidable amount of decomposing organic material.
Whether the nitrates come from Monsanto, or my pretty pony, too much
will damage the soil environment.

If you use manure to soil in a ratio of 1 to 1, with perennial plants,
how do you avoid the bed from sinking when the organic material
decomposes back to CO2 and H2O? With annuals it could be replaced during
the winter or early spring, at the cost of money, and a lot of labor.

In my opinion, the OP would be better off to adjust his soil to the
profile of loam, add 5% - 10% organic material, and then plant rye or
buckwheat around perennials, or plant them in a program of crop rotation
with annuals. The rye and the buckwheat would insert the necessary
organic material into the soil by virtue of their prodigious root
production. Nitrogen could be applied at the surface by "green manure",
or animal manure which could be mulched over.

I strongly suggest that the OP check out at least one of the following
books from their library in order to understand what they are trying to
accomplish.

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1

and/or

Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture
(Paperback)
by Toby Hemenway
http://www.amazon.com/Gaias-Garden-S...ulture/dp/1603
580298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271266976&sr=1-1
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html

In article ,
"Gary Brown" wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Gary Brown wrote:
Hi,

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to
put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing
soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

It depends on the existing composition of your soil. If it is
well balanced and you just want to increase the volume add a
good loam. If it is not balanced add whatever is missing in
greater amounts.

We live on a drumlin, which is a hill that was stripped bare by
the last ice age. The soil is poor and rocky.

How much manure should I add per cubic foot of soil? We have
cow manure available commercially here. How deep?

Who is doing this work? How has the drainage been handled?

Me, with a pick-axe and shovel. We have a supply of sand.
Would adding some of that help?

Thanks,
Gary

You sound as if you are describing conditions in New England, if so, and
the plants are to be ornamental, I'd go with the purchased topsoil in
order to avoid the rocks and the acidity of the soil. If this is to be a
vegetable garden, your largest harvest will be of rocks. Not impossible,
but it will take patience.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html

On 8/5/10 12:40 PM, in article
, "Billy"
wrote:

In article ,
"Gary Brown" wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Gary Brown wrote:
Hi,

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to
put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing
soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

It depends on the existing composition of your soil. If it is
well balanced and you just want to increase the volume add a
good loam. If it is not balanced add whatever is missing in
greater amounts.

We live on a drumlin, which is a hill that was stripped bare by
the last ice age. The soil is poor and rocky.

How much manure should I add per cubic foot of soil? We have
cow manure available commercially here. How deep?

Who is doing this work? How has the drainage been handled?

Me, with a pick-axe and shovel. We have a supply of sand.
Would adding some of that help?

Thanks,
Gary

You sound as if you are describing conditions in New England, if so, and
the plants are to be ornamental, I'd go with the purchased topsoil in
order to avoid the rocks and the acidity of the soil. If this is to be a
vegetable garden, your largest harvest will be of rocks. Not impossible,
but it will take patience.


Actually, 20 plus years later of gardening, I'm still harvesting rocks in
the existing beds... LOL


Thank heavens for buying in composted manures....

C

Gary Brown wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Gary Brown wrote:
Hi,

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to
put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing
soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

It depends on the existing composition of your soil. If it is
well balanced and you just want to increase the volume add a
good loam. If it is not balanced add whatever is missing in
greater amounts.

We live on a drumlin, which is a hill that was stripped bare by
the last ice age. The soil is poor and rocky.


Do you intend to cut down into this or will the terrace be only built up?


How much manure should I add per cubic foot of soil? We have
cow manure available commercially here. How deep?

Who is doing this work? How has the drainage been handled?

Me, with a pick-axe and shovel. We have a supply of sand.
Would adding some of that help?


You need to organise your terrace and its retaining wall so that heavy rain
is not going to cause a problem. The higher the wall the stronger it must
be and the more risk there is of water behind it being a problem. You need
to ensure that any surface water runs to a place where it can be dealt with
(not, for example, into the garage as an acquaintance did) and the wall
needs weep holes so that it doesn't become a dam because then the
hydrostatic water pressure may push it over.

David