Hi,

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

Also, I will need to temporarily move some plants while
terracing. What is best to do with those plants until
replanted?

Thanks,
Gary

On 8/3/10 4:27 PM, in article
, "Gary Brown"
wrote:

Hi,

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

Also, I will need to temporarily move some plants while
terracing. What is best to do with those plants until
replanted?

Thanks,
Gary




First - create a holding bed for the plants you are moving.

The second - it depends. Are the plants/grass growing there now healthy and
happen?


Honestly, I add compost, manure, shredded paper to every new planting area.
(The shredded paper is to deal with the huge volume we happen to be creating
dealing with old paperwork. )

Do you need volume or do you have enough soil to create the terrace


Cheryl

My soil has virtually no organic content, so I add compost or manure to
improve it. This is in addition to fertilizing. Chemical fertilizers
do nothing to improve inorganic soil.

It is important to remember that compost often is relatively deficient
in nitrogen. You may need to add nitrogen, perhaps by also adding the
freshest manure you can find. The fresher it is, the more nitrogen it
has.

What is your soil like?

Una

On Aug 3, 5:24*pm, (Una) wrote:
My soil has virtually no organic content, so I add compost or manure to
improve it. *This is in addition to fertilizing. *Chemical fertilizers
do nothing to improve inorganic soil.

It is important to remember that compost often is relatively deficient
in nitrogen. *You may need to add nitrogen, perhaps by also adding the
freshest manure you can find. *The fresher it is, the more nitrogen it
has.

What is your soil like?

* * * * Una

But don't you have to let that manure age a little before replanting
the area? I have been told that really fresh manure will damage root
systems.

Chris

Chris wrote:
But don't you have to let that manure age a little before replanting
the area? I have been told that really fresh manure will damage root
systems.

Depends what kind of manure and how pure. Poultry manure is higher in N than
mammal manure. Manure with a large fraction of bedding is lower in N. Horse
manure is lower N than dairy cow manure. Depends also on how much manure you
apply, the N content of the existing soil, and how much N your plants require.

Una

Una wrote:
Chris wrote:
But don't you have to let that manure age a little before replanting
the area? I have been told that really fresh manure will damage root
systems.

Depends what kind of manure and how pure. Poultry manure is higher
in N than mammal manure. Manure with a large fraction of bedding is
lower in N. Horse manure is lower N than dairy cow manure. Depends
also on how much manure you apply, the N content of the existing
soil, and how much N your plants require.

Una

Una is right. For example I can put manure on to established plants hot
from the horse (or nearly). Pure chicken manure if very fresh is too hard
to spread thinly and water in to a level where it won't burn so mixing it in
with other organic matter and maybe composting for a while before applying
is a safer approach. Chicken litter (ie sawdust bedding and manure from
chicken houses) can be applied directly if you spead it carefully and don't
over do it.

David

On Aug 3, 8:36*pm, (Una) wrote:
Chris wrote:
But don't you have to let that manure age a little before replanting
the area? I have been told that really fresh manure will damage root
systems.

Depends what kind of manure and how pure. *Poultry manure is higher in N than
mammal manure.

{Chuckle} I used to keep chickens in the back. For years after that
ended, the area was so fertile that plants would virtually LEAP out of
the ground when I sowed seeds.


*Manure with a large fraction of bedding is lower in N. *Horse
manure is lower N than dairy cow manure. *Depends also on how much manure you
apply, the N content of the existing soil, and how much N your plants require.

* * * * Una

Gary Brown wrote:
Hi,

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

It depends on the existing composition of your soil. If it is well balanced
and you just want to increase the volume add a good loam. If it is not
balanced add whatever is missing in greater amounts.


Also, I will need to temporarily move some plants while
terracing. What is best to do with those plants until
replanted?


It depends on what the plants are. The treatment (and whether it is
sensible to even try it) will vary with size and type.

Who is doing this work? How has the drainage been handled?

David

Gary Brown wrote:

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

It's not a question of "either or", compost and manure will continue
to compost until all that's left in less than two years is dust... on
a slope a few good rains and it will be gone... if soil is needed use
top soil and with amendments if needed depending on the quality of the
topsoil.

brooklyn1 wrote:
It's not a question of "either or", compost and manure will continue
to compost until all that's left in less than two years is dust... on
a slope a few good rains and it will be gone...

To the extent this is true, it is true also for topsoil. Your point?

Una

On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:18:10 -0600 (MDT), (Una) wrote:

brooklyn1 wrote:
It's not a question of "either or", compost and manure will continue
to compost until all that's left in less than two years is dust... on
a slope a few good rains and it will be gone...

To the extent this is true, it is true also for topsoil. Your point?

Top soil does not continue to decay at anywhere near the rate of
compost.

brooklyn1 wrote:
It's not a question of "either or", compost and manure will continue
to compost until all that's left in less than two years is dust... on
a slope a few good rains and it will be gone...

(Una) wrote:
To the extent this is true, it is true also for topsoil. Your point?

brooklyn1 wrote:
Top soil does not continue to decay at anywhere near the rate of
compost.

The organic fraction does. The inorganic fraction also settles and is
even more subject to erosion than the organic fraction.

Una

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Gary Brown wrote:
Hi,

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to
put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing
soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

It depends on the existing composition of your soil. If it is
well balanced and you just want to increase the volume add a
good loam. If it is not balanced add whatever is missing in
greater amounts.

We live on a drumlin, which is a hill that was stripped bare by
the last ice age. The soil is poor and rocky.

How much manure should I add per cubic foot of soil? We have
cow manure available commercially here. How deep?

Who is doing this work? How has the drainage been handled?

Me, with a pick-axe and shovel. We have a supply of sand.
Would adding some of that help?

Thanks,
Gary

On 8/5/10 1:17 AM, in article
, "Gary Brown"
wrote:


"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Gary Brown wrote:
Hi,

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to
put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing
soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

It depends on the existing composition of your soil. If it is
well balanced and you just want to increase the volume add a
good loam. If it is not balanced add whatever is missing in
greater amounts.

We live on a drumlin, which is a hill that was stripped bare by
the last ice age. The soil is poor and rocky.
Ah - some one who knows the proper terms!

How much manure should I add per cubic foot of soil? We have
cow manure available commercially here. How deep?
Honestly - I'd be doing close to 50-50 your soil to manure. Not knowing
where you are, look around to have some one deliver enough in one aromatic
load; local farmers, stable owners, alpacas (currently in style here) and
such.

I have friends that tell wonderful tales of having 4 yards of horse manure
delivered....

Who is doing this work? How has the drainage been handled?

Me, with a pick-axe and shovel.

I'll assume you've done your homework.
We have a supply of sand.
Would adding some of that help?
Only if you have clay in your soil or there is some in what ever soil you
might end up bringing in. Great for drainage...


Cheryl

In article ,
Cheryl Isaak wrote:

On 8/5/10 1:17 AM, in article
, "Gary Brown"
wrote:


"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Gary Brown wrote:
Hi,

I am terracing a slope on our yard. I am unsure whether to
put
in topsoil or just mix manure or compost into the existing
soil.
Wouldn't the latter allow a higher concentration of plant
matter?

It depends on the existing composition of your soil. If it is
well balanced and you just want to increase the volume add a
good loam. If it is not balanced add whatever is missing in
greater amounts.

We live on a drumlin, which is a hill that was stripped bare by
the last ice age. The soil is poor and rocky.
Ah - some one who knows the proper terms!

How much manure should I add per cubic foot of soil? We have
cow manure available commercially here. How deep?
Honestly - I'd be doing close to 50-50 your soil to manure. Not knowing
where you are, look around to have some one deliver enough in one aromatic
load; local farmers, stable owners, alpacas (currently in style here) and
such.

I have friends that tell wonderful tales of having 4 yards of horse manure
delivered....

Who is doing this work? How has the drainage been handled?

Me, with a pick-axe and shovel.

I'll assume you've done your homework.
We have a supply of sand.
Would adding some of that help?
Only if you have clay in your soil or there is some in what ever soil you
might end up bringing in. Great for drainage...


Cheryl

Cheryl, there still seem to be too many loose ends here, including the
composition of the soil. What kind of plants are we talking about, woody
perennials, or soft annuals? While, in my hubris, I don't always agree
with Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Horticulturist and Associate
Professor, Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State
University, I still think it is instructive to consider her opinions.
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda%2...ltural%20Myths
_files/Myths/Amendments%204.pdf
Of particular concern is the production and leaching of nutrients
produced from a formidable amount of decomposing organic material.
Whether the nitrates come from Monsanto, or my pretty pony, too much
will damage the soil environment.

If you use manure to soil in a ratio of 1 to 1, with perennial plants,
how do you avoid the bed from sinking when the organic material
decomposes back to CO2 and H2O? With annuals it could be replaced during
the winter or early spring, at the cost of money, and a lot of labor.

In my opinion, the OP would be better off to adjust his soil to the
profile of loam, add 5% - 10% organic material, and then plant rye or
buckwheat around perennials, or plant them in a program of crop rotation
with annuals. The rye and the buckwheat would insert the necessary
organic material into the soil by virtue of their prodigious root
production. Nitrogen could be applied at the surface by "green manure",
or animal manure which could be mulched over.

I strongly suggest that the OP check out at least one of the following
books from their library in order to understand what they are trying to
accomplish.

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1

and/or

Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture
(Paperback)
by Toby Hemenway
http://www.amazon.com/Gaias-Garden-S...ulture/dp/1603
580298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271266976&sr=1-1
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/m...515308172.html