FarmI wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message

Can you see where the anger comes from, when to complain is to be
accused of having "drunk to much progressive Kool-Aid"? That is an
invective, not an argument.

Just use your killfile. If you and David didn't reply to him/her/it,
I wouldn't have to see what he/her/it writes.

I think errors need to be corrected but I will try to stay more on topic.

D

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

Billy wrote:


Obviously, investment bankers aren't fellow men, because they can
make a mess out of the myth of a free market.
LOL! That's too rich. No offense, but that you would make such a
blanket statement leads me to believe you ignorant of what
investment bankers do in the
economy and to suspect you have drunk of the "progressive"
Kool-Aide. Neither here nor there in a gardening forum, though, eh?

Needling a little but well able to be passed over.


If I wanted a drunken fool, you'd be my pick.


Taking as much offence as possible and returning more. What is the
point in
making it personal? Why must somebody who disagrees with you be a
bad
person?

David

I love dialogue. We all get trapped between our ears, and need a fresh

view in order to have more grist for the mills of our minds to work
on.
Presently, in the U.S. of A., we have, essentially, angry mobs running

around blaming the huge deficits on Obama, and calling for the return
of
the Republicans that got us into this hole to begin with. Now, don't
misunderstand me, Obama is a jerk. He thinks that the progressives
have
nowhere else to go, and that he can continue on as a new and improved
George Bush. However, if he was the man that was elected, he would
have
had investigations into the Bush Administration. He would have stopped

the torture, and he would have brought our soldiers home, but he
hasn't.
He doesn't talk about coming home (Now we talk of war in Indonesia,
Somalia, and Venezuela). He talks about being out of Iraq, where we
still have 50,000 troops, god knows how many mercenaries, an embassy
that is large as 80 football fields (427,829 sq. m.), and a State
Department staff armed with Black Hawk helicopters, drones, M1 Abrams
tanks, and some 5,000 mercenaries. Would you like to "super size" your

visa?
However, as I have just said, we are where we are because of
Republican
lying, and Democratic acquiescence.
We have 2 choices in this country, the smiling fascists (Democrats),
or
the full-tilt crazies (Republicans). Where I can, I'll vote third
party,
but the Republican party is alway a clear and present danger. Here in
California, the "Better Business" people have thrown their lot behind
the Republicans. Needless to say, the better it is for business, the
worse it is for consumers.
We need to shut down the War Department and their suppliers. Stop
subsidizing fossil fuel extraction, and nail Wall Street investment
bankers to the wall by their balls. Merrill Lynch was given $10
billion
by American tax-payers to buy back junk stock that they had created,
and
they paid themselves $3.6 billion in bonuses!!
Can you see where the anger comes from, when to complain is to be
accused of having "drunk to much progressive Kool-Aid"? That is an
invective, not an argument. This stupidity has to stop, and that is
why
it is personal.
I have hung way out on a limb here. If someone wants to make a fool of

me, all they have to do is chop it off. In the mean time, I'm not
going
to make the mob hysteria thing easy, if I can help it. People need to
think, and not just go into a knee jerk reaction, if someone is a
Muslim, or a Mexican.
We just had a taxi driver slashed in New York with a knife. His
offense?
He was a Muslim.

Otherwise, you are quite right, and the criticism is noted.

Kill any more honey bees lately, "Bonehead"?

I mean, this guy want to be the King of Stupid.

Grrrrr
The madness will end, when the currencies of the world collapse. Then
almost everyone will be poor. A new kind of government will be created.
Perhaps a new world government? Perhaps a new world currency without a
world government? The chaos may last a long time between then and now.

First there were local tribes, then city states, then nations, then ....
The next step is a one world government. The next step in evolution of
our planet. Each time during these long transitions is a harsh period of
wars and turmoil.

Those that grow and preserve their own food will do better than those
who do not. Those living in the country will do better than those living
in the city.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan L (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p"
wrote:


A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. I have had no luck
growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't delicious with
superb flavor and few seeds.

They are just very selective about conditions which is why less-fussy
hybrids have been produced.

I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as
well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant.

Kate
middle TN

wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p"
wrote:

A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. I have had no luck
growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't delicious with
superb flavor and few seeds.

They are just very selective about conditions which is why less-fussy
hybrids have been produced.

I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as
well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant.

Kate
middle TN


The best I have ever tasted was a fully ripe Better Boy hybrid (not
just one in particular, but any fully-ripe one) from the garden. I
think the fully-ripe part is more important than the variety. Or
maybe I just like Better Boy. I do dabble with other varieties,
mostly open-pollenated, but I always plant at least a couple of BB's,
and the BB's usually win.

Bob

On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:38:13 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p"
wrote:

A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. I have had no luck
growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't delicious with
superb flavor and few seeds.

They are just very selective about conditions which is why less-fussy
hybrids have been produced.

I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as
well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant.

Kate
middle TN


The best I have ever tasted was a fully ripe Better Boy hybrid (not
just one in particular, but any fully-ripe one) from the garden. I
think the fully-ripe part is more important than the variety. Or
maybe I just like Better Boy. I do dabble with other varieties,
mostly open-pollenated, but I always plant at least a couple of BB's,
and the BB's usually win.

Bob

I'm fond of Bradley's, which do well here, but the "real" Bradley's,
not the ones from Home depot etc. I found seeds online a few years
back and they were prolific and acidic. I also liked First Ladies
when I was growing them. I grew Taxi's one year, but I guess the
yellow's are too mellow for me. (And they didn't sell well either.)

Kate

zxcvbob wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p"
wrote:

A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. I have had no
luck growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't
delicious with superb flavor and few seeds.

They are just very selective about conditions which is why
less-fussy hybrids have been produced.

I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as
well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant.

Kate
middle TN


The best I have ever tasted was a fully ripe Better Boy hybrid (not
just one in particular, but any fully-ripe one) from the garden. I
think the fully-ripe part is more important than the variety. Or
maybe I just like Better Boy. I do dabble with other varieties,
mostly open-pollenated, but I always plant at least a couple of BB's,
and the BB's usually win.

Bob

Having fresh produce that is fully naturally ripened is often more important
that the cultivar or the way it was raised. The best example of this is
stone fruit, if you have never eaten a peach ripened on the tree you have
never tasted the real thing.

David

On Sep 10, 5:35*pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p"
wrote:

A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. *I have had no
luck growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't
delicious with superb flavor and few seeds.

They are just very selective about conditions which is why
less-fussy hybrids have been produced.

I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as
well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant.

Kate
middle TN

The best I have ever tasted was a fully ripe Better Boy hybrid (not
just one in particular, but any fully-ripe one) from the garden. *I
think the fully-ripe part is more important than the variety. *Or
maybe I just like Better Boy. *I do dabble with other varieties,
mostly open-pollenated, but I always plant at least a couple of BB's,
and the BB's usually win.

Bob

Having fresh produce that is fully naturally ripened is often more important
that the cultivar or the way it was raised. *The best example of this is
stone fruit, if you have never eaten a peach ripened on the tree you have
never tasted the real thing.

David

OMG you take me back...back to the long-ago days when my (late) peach
tree bore so profusely, I was spending all day climbing up and down my
ladder to pick! In addition to eating fresh, I made ICE CREAM with
the finest cream, home-grown eggs, etc. Un-effing-believable!

David Hare-Scott wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p"
wrote:

A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. I have had no
luck growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't
delicious with superb flavor and few seeds.

They are just very selective about conditions which is why
less-fussy hybrids have been produced.

I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as
well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant.

Kate
middle TN


The best I have ever tasted was a fully ripe Better Boy hybrid (not
just one in particular, but any fully-ripe one) from the garden. I
think the fully-ripe part is more important than the variety. Or
maybe I just like Better Boy. I do dabble with other varieties,
mostly open-pollenated, but I always plant at least a couple of BB's,
and the BB's usually win.

Bob

Having fresh produce that is fully naturally ripened is often more
important that the cultivar or the way it was raised. The best example
of this is stone fruit, if you have never eaten a peach ripened on the
tree you have never tasted the real thing.

David


I haven't eaten a real peach in 20 years. (I used to have peach
trees so I know what a real peach is.) They won't grow up here.

Bob

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message

Having fresh produce that is fully naturally ripened is often more
important that the cultivar or the way it was raised. The best example of
this is stone fruit, if you have never eaten a peach ripened on the tree
you have never tasted the real thing.

Apricots! I can't grow them here but I adore good ones. Impossible to buy.

David Hare-Scott wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:18:55 -0600, "gloria.p"
wrote:

A Brandywine tomato is the best I have ever tasted. I have had no
luck growing them, but that doesn't mean that heirlooms aren't
delicious with superb flavor and few seeds.

They are just very selective about conditions which is why
less-fussy hybrids have been produced.

I didn't have a lot of luck growing them, but I like the taste as
well. The ones I did grow were huge, but only a few to each plant.

Kate
middle TN


The best I have ever tasted was a fully ripe Better Boy hybrid (not
just one in particular, but any fully-ripe one) from the garden. I
think the fully-ripe part is more important than the variety. Or
maybe I just like Better Boy. I do dabble with other varieties,
mostly open-pollenated, but I always plant at least a couple of BB's,
and the BB's usually win.

Bob

Having fresh produce that is fully naturally ripened is often more
important that the cultivar or the way it was raised. The best example
of this is stone fruit, if you have never eaten a peach ripened on the
tree you have never tasted the real thing.

David

I think there is more to it than just ripening on the tree. When we
visit California, we can get tree ripened peaches, but they still taste
like plastic. In Ohio, where the trees have to survive through a cold
winter, the tree ripened peaches are superb, to the point where when we
go to the farmers' market, we are careful to only buy Ohio peaches.

We visited a village (Iserables) half way up a mountain in Switzerland,
and their main crop is apricots. They weren't in season when we were
there, but the liquor they make from them was very tasty. Far tastier
than the apricots grown in an irrigated desert in the US.

I planted one Brandywine this year, and it has struggled, producing few
tomatoes. The Better Boy variety we planted has produced much more
fruit of equal or better taste.

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:


Sure the choice of cultivar and growing conditions will help but for the
person newly come to growing their own, real freshness and ripeness are the
things that will knock their socks off if all they have ever had is from the
supermarket. All this is assuming of course that they can actually taste
fruit and vegetables properly. An acquaintance who is a heavy smoker
doesn't know what all the fuss is about.

To give some other examples; asparagus fresh cut is sweetish and can be
eaten raw with pleasure or blanched for only a few minutes. A fresh cabbage
is sweet and "alive" compared to the one cold-stored for weeks. There is a
good reason for this, the plant is still alive in storage and the metabolism
converts the sugars to starches. Also I suspect other processes subtly
change the flavour.

David

We have 5 senses when possible use them all. Storage seems to
diminish sense of smell which relates to taste. Can hide subtle
spoilage with spices but the best is breaking a asparagus nibbling and
walking about trying to envision the coming meal.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q0JfdP36kI

Yes I would imagine the price of seed would go up if it weren't for
heirlooms. However, I don't mind spending a few bucks for a pack of
seeds. For the home gardener, the price of seed don't matter near as
much as it would to a large commercial operation that sets thousands of
plants. My slow release granular fertilizer costs me a lot more than

On 9/19/2010 8:38 AM, lenco12 wrote:
No Name;899769 Wrote:
(EVP MAN) wrote: - The hybrids looked
better, tasted better and produced much better. Say what you want
about heirlooms but I won't give them garden space again. Hybrids
all the way for this PA gardener from now on!- LOL! I expressed
precisely the same viewpoint very much earlier this year. Early on,
I composted all of my "Brandywine" except one and, based on yield,
keeping _it_ was a waste of good dirt. As I see it, entertaining
this, that, or the-other "heirloom" is foisting upon oneself all of
the reasons reliable hybrids were developed in the first place. Who
needs it? But then, again, I am neither tomato connoisseur nor
among the "heirloom" cognoscenti, I suppose. Sentiment or some
irrational "doomsday" fear are not among the reasons that I grow
vegetables. -- Derald

Yes I would imagine the price of seed would go up if it weren't for
heirlooms. However, I don't mind spending a few bucks for a pack of
seeds. For the home gardener, the price of seed don't matter near as
much as it would to a large commercial operation that sets thousands
of plants. My slow release granular fertilizer costs me a lot more
than



I'm going to save seeds from my Better Boys this year (even though it's
a hybrid) and plant them next year. They *might* be crossed with
Stupice that was planted next to them, but I doubt it. I've done this
before with hybrids and it usually works just fine for a home gardener.
To much variability though for most commercial growers.

Bob

On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 14:33:46 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

On 9/19/2010 8:38 AM, lenco12 wrote:
No Name;899769 Wrote:
(EVP MAN) wrote: - The hybrids looked
better, tasted better and produced much better. Say what you want
about heirlooms but I won't give them garden space again. Hybrids
all the way for this PA gardener from now on!- LOL! I expressed
precisely the same viewpoint very much earlier this year. Early on,
I composted all of my "Brandywine" except one and, based on yield,
keeping _it_ was a waste of good dirt. As I see it, entertaining
this, that, or the-other "heirloom" is foisting upon oneself all of
the reasons reliable hybrids were developed in the first place. Who
needs it? But then, again, I am neither tomato connoisseur nor
among the "heirloom" cognoscenti, I suppose. Sentiment or some
irrational "doomsday" fear are not among the reasons that I grow
vegetables. -- Derald

Yes I would imagine the price of seed would go up if it weren't for
heirlooms. However, I don't mind spending a few bucks for a pack of
seeds. For the home gardener, the price of seed don't matter near as
much as it would to a large commercial operation that sets thousands
of plants. My slow release granular fertilizer costs me a lot more
than



I'm going to save seeds from my Better Boys this year (even though it's
a hybrid) and plant them next year. They *might* be crossed with
Stupice that was planted next to them, but I doubt it. I've done this
before with hybrids and it usually works just fine for a home gardener.
To much variability though for most commercial growers.

Bob

I've not done well with saved veggie seeds; they don't germinate well
and/or produce a weird looking crop. I'd rather buy fresh each year,
home gardening entails too much labor and expense to shoot oneself in
the foot at the git-go by trying to save a few pennies on seed. I buy
the smallest size packets and swap what I don't use with neighbor
gardeners... most every community has a gardening club that maintains
a seed bank... check at your local library.