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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:05:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: When I was in the fire service, we learned that both length and diameter matters. Smaller hose increases pressure drop, usually measured in psi drop per 100 feet of length. 500 foot hose has 5 times the pressure drop of 100 foot hose. Prove it. You obviously weren't paying attention in class... so long as pressure and diameter remains constant volume remains constant... it's when there is pressure loss and diameter decreases that volume decreases... fire hose diameter reduces even when moved around corners... every sailer learns this from shipboard fire control tutorials. And were you truly in fire service you'd know that fire hose lays flat when unpressurized and it's diameter changes with changes in pressure... all you did at the firehouse is polish the firemen's poles. The volume is not constant. The longer the hose, the greater the volume of water is in the hose. More water in the hose the greater the weight of the water and the pressure will decrease. Water pressure that comes from the city municipals have Huge pumps that can "increase" the amount of energy to keep the pressure constant. Fire trucks and Ship pumps will "increase" the energy to keep that pressure constant and the length of hose will not matter as long as the length is within the pumps limitations. Auto variable pumps are very expensive. My home well system pump has a "constant" power output and does not increase power to the home water system and most urban homes have limits on the max pressure, my well system is set at a max of 50 psi, therefore pressure will decrease as the hose gets longer or every toilet get flushed at the same time, because my home well pump does not have the power to maintain that pressure for really long runs. One can prove this by getting a hose of different lengths at find out for yourself. -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
#2
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 01:31:31 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
wrote: Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:05:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: When I was in the fire service, we learned that both length and diameter matters. Smaller hose increases pressure drop, usually measured in psi drop per 100 feet of length. 500 foot hose has 5 times the pressure drop of 100 foot hose. Prove it. You obviously weren't paying attention in class... so long as pressure and diameter remains constant volume remains constant... it's when there is pressure loss and diameter decreases that volume decreases... fire hose diameter reduces even when moved around corners... every sailer learns this from shipboard fire control tutorials. And were you truly in fire service you'd know that fire hose lays flat when unpressurized and it's diameter changes with changes in pressure... all you did at the firehouse is polish the firemen's poles. The volume is not constant. The longer the hose, the greater the volume of water is in the hose. More water in the hose the greater the weight of the water and the pressure will decrease. The weight of the water in teh pipe will only affect pressure if the head of water is raised, but that has to do with gravity... if the head of water is lowered volume will also increase.... but so long as the pump rating is adequate for the lift the volume won't change. Water pressure that comes from the city municipals have Huge pumps that can "increase" the amount of energy to keep the pressure constant. Fire trucks and Ship pumps will "increase" the energy to keep that pressure constant and the length of hose will not matter as long as the length is within the pumps limitations. Auto variable pumps are very expensive. My home well system pump has a "constant" power output and does not increase power to the home water system and most urban homes have limits on the max pressure, my well system is set at a max of 50 psi, therefore pressure will decrease as the hose gets longer or every toilet get flushed at the same time, because my home well pump does not have the power to maintain that pressure for really long runs. One can prove this by getting a hose of different lengths at find out for yourself. You changed the topic, you're talking about pump ratings and wells, not hose length. With your well pump set up volume won't change with a longer hose so long as you're not running it up hill, that your well maintains adequate water volume, and your well pump maintains pressure. But the topic is not about wells and pumps. If you remember my original reply I asked about topograpghy for exactly what you're bringing up. The height water is lifted affects volume, but not the length of run on level ground. You'd probably understand if you've ever siphoned water any appreciable distance, siphoning eliminates frailities of a pump. And you do realize that temperatures affects volume too, higher temperatures cause hose diameter to expand creating a greater cross sectional area, in effect a larger diameter tube... there are other factors that alter volume too but not piping length alone. About two years ago I did a lot of reasearch on this exact topic for irrigating a property in Idaho by pumping water from a pond... there were several problems due to the hilly terrain. In the end several pumps proved inadequate... it was less costly and entailed far less labor by hauling water with a cart. And if the OP wants to irrigate 6 acres I'd definitely recommend a much larger well. I have two wells on my property, the one for my house was tested and delivers 12 gallons a minute, the one that used to be used for irrigating crops delivers 30 gallons a minute. I use the larger well only occasionally, to water my vegetable garden and to fill the buckets I sometimes haul about... I also use it to wash my tractors and whatever else requires large volumes of water. |
#3
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 01:31:31 +0000 (UTC), Nad R wrote: Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:05:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: When I was in the fire service, we learned that both length and diameter matters. Smaller hose increases pressure drop, usually measured in psi drop per 100 feet of length. 500 foot hose has 5 times the pressure drop of 100 foot hose. Prove it. You obviously weren't paying attention in class... so long as pressure and diameter remains constant volume remains constant... it's when there is pressure loss and diameter decreases that volume decreases... fire hose diameter reduces even when moved around corners... every sailer learns this from shipboard fire control tutorials. And were you truly in fire service you'd know that fire hose lays flat when unpressurized and it's diameter changes with changes in pressure... all you did at the firehouse is polish the firemen's poles. The volume is not constant. The longer the hose, the greater the volume of water is in the hose. More water in the hose the greater the weight of the water and the pressure will decrease. The weight of the water in teh pipe will only affect pressure if the head of water is raised, but that has to do with gravity... if the head of water is lowered volume will also increase.... but so long as the pump rating is adequate for the lift the volume won't change. Water pressure that comes from the city municipals have Huge pumps that can "increase" the amount of energy to keep the pressure constant. Fire trucks and Ship pumps will "increase" the energy to keep that pressure constant and the length of hose will not matter as long as the length is within the pumps limitations. Auto variable pumps are very expensive. My home well system pump has a "constant" power output and does not increase power to the home water system and most urban homes have limits on the max pressure, my well system is set at a max of 50 psi, therefore pressure will decrease as the hose gets longer or every toilet get flushed at the same time, because my home well pump does not have the power to maintain that pressure for really long runs. One can prove this by getting a hose of different lengths at find out for yourself. You changed the topic, you're talking about pump ratings and wells, not hose length. With your well pump set up volume won't change with a longer hose so long as you're not running it up hill, that your well maintains adequate water volume, and your well pump maintains pressure. But the topic is not about wells and pumps. If you remember my original reply I asked about topograpghy for exactly what you're bringing up. The height water is lifted affects volume, but not the length of run on level ground. You'd probably understand if you've ever siphoned water any appreciable distance, siphoning eliminates frailities of a pump. And you do realize that temperatures affects volume too, higher temperatures cause hose diameter to expand creating a greater cross sectional area, in effect a larger diameter tube... there are other factors that alter volume too but not piping length alone. About two years ago I did a lot of reasearch on this exact topic for irrigating a property in Idaho by pumping water from a pond... there were several problems due to the hilly terrain. In the end several pumps proved inadequate... it was less costly and entailed far less labor by hauling water with a cart. And if the OP wants to irrigate 6 acres I'd definitely recommend a much larger well. I have two wells on my property, the one for my house was tested and delivers 12 gallons a minute, the one that used to be used for irrigating crops delivers 30 gallons a minute. I use the larger well only occasionally, to water my vegetable garden and to fill the buckets I sometimes haul about... I also use it to wash my tractors and whatever else requires large volumes of water. True only if the tail is lower than the head. For gravity fed drip irrigation what you say is true. However, most cases the person will be standing at the end of the line two or three feet higher to water the plants. I have run the water hoses for long distances and it can be done. However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does lack pressure. The Original Poster wanted Taps at the end for watering plants. But like many Posters the OP rarely responds back for feedback. -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
"Nad R" wrote in message
However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does lack pressure. If you have low water pressure, I can recommend these: http://www.greenharvest.com.au/tools...kler_prod.html The spiky little head in the middle is like a small basket that wobbles. The wobble action throws the spay quite wide even if the pressure is woeful. Here's another variant: http://www.wobble-tee.com.au/ |
#5
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Nad R" wrote in message However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does lack pressure. If you have low water pressure, I can recommend these: http://www.greenharvest.com.au/tools...kler_prod.html The spiky little head in the middle is like a small basket that wobbles. The wobble action throws the spay quite wide even if the pressure is woeful. Here's another variant: http://www.wobble-tee.com.au/ That is something I did not believe existed. I will look for a local version first. Thank for the information on that. The soaker hoses are nice but have their limitations. -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
#6
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
In article ,
Nad R wrote: "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: "Nad R" wrote in message However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does lack pressure. If you have low water pressure, I can recommend these: http://www.greenharvest.com.au/tools...kler_prod.html The spiky little head in the middle is like a small basket that wobbles. The wobble action throws the spay quite wide even if the pressure is woeful. Here's another variant: http://www.wobble-tee.com.au/ That is something I did not believe existed. I will look for a local version first. Thank for the information on that. The soaker hoses are nice but have their limitations. and so does shooting water into the air. You must have water to burn. -- - Billy Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria of the American political landscape. America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash. It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks and the portfolios of the uber-rich. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore /michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/ |
#7
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
Billy wrote:
In article , Nad R wrote: "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: "Nad R" wrote in message However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does lack pressure. If you have low water pressure, I can recommend these: http://www.greenharvest.com.au/tools...kler_prod.html The spiky little head in the middle is like a small basket that wobbles. The wobble action throws the spay quite wide even if the pressure is woeful. Here's another variant: http://www.wobble-tee.com.au/ That is something I did not believe existed. I will look for a local version first. Thank for the information on that. The soaker hoses are nice but have their limitations. and so does shooting water into the air. You must have water to burn. My well has never gone dry and have let it runs for hours on end. However, I do not use the hose that often. Just between rains and when the rain barrels run dry. My barrels are now dry as of today. I am hoping for rain soon. Only a 30% chance of rain for today and tomorrow. I estimate running my well, filters, salt and power cost no more than twenty dollars per month. Michigan is not like California, fresh water is cheap and plentiful here. The reason people do not like Michigan is the long cold winters. -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
#8
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
"Nad R" wrote in message
... "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: "Nad R" wrote in message However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does lack pressure. If you have low water pressure, I can recommend these: http://www.greenharvest.com.au/tools...kler_prod.html The spiky little head in the middle is like a small basket that wobbles. The wobble action throws the spay quite wide even if the pressure is woeful. Here's another variant: http://www.wobble-tee.com.au/ That is something I did not believe existed. Given that Australia is the driest inhabited continent, we tend to have a LOT of solutions to water problems. Also given that our population is sparse in comparison to other lands, those solutions tend to be low tech as the support networks aren't there for professionals to make a motza out of support. |
#9
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:43:15 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
wrote: Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote: On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 01:31:31 +0000 (UTC), Nad R wrote: Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:05:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: When I was in the fire service, we learned that both length and diameter matters. Smaller hose increases pressure drop, usually measured in psi drop per 100 feet of length. 500 foot hose has 5 times the pressure drop of 100 foot hose. Prove it. You obviously weren't paying attention in class... so long as pressure and diameter remains constant volume remains constant... it's when there is pressure loss and diameter decreases that volume decreases... fire hose diameter reduces even when moved around corners... every sailer learns this from shipboard fire control tutorials. And were you truly in fire service you'd know that fire hose lays flat when unpressurized and it's diameter changes with changes in pressure... all you did at the firehouse is polish the firemen's poles. The volume is not constant. The longer the hose, the greater the volume of water is in the hose. More water in the hose the greater the weight of the water and the pressure will decrease. The weight of the water in teh pipe will only affect pressure if the head of water is raised, but that has to do with gravity... if the head of water is lowered volume will also increase.... but so long as the pump rating is adequate for the lift the volume won't change. Water pressure that comes from the city municipals have Huge pumps that can "increase" the amount of energy to keep the pressure constant. Fire trucks and Ship pumps will "increase" the energy to keep that pressure constant and the length of hose will not matter as long as the length is within the pumps limitations. Auto variable pumps are very expensive. My home well system pump has a "constant" power output and does not increase power to the home water system and most urban homes have limits on the max pressure, my well system is set at a max of 50 psi, therefore pressure will decrease as the hose gets longer or every toilet get flushed at the same time, because my home well pump does not have the power to maintain that pressure for really long runs. One can prove this by getting a hose of different lengths at find out for yourself. You changed the topic, you're talking about pump ratings and wells, not hose length. With your well pump set up volume won't change with a longer hose so long as you're not running it up hill, that your well maintains adequate water volume, and your well pump maintains pressure. But the topic is not about wells and pumps. If you remember my original reply I asked about topograpghy for exactly what you're bringing up. The height water is lifted affects volume, but not the length of run on level ground. You'd probably understand if you've ever siphoned water any appreciable distance, siphoning eliminates frailities of a pump. And you do realize that temperatures affects volume too, higher temperatures cause hose diameter to expand creating a greater cross sectional area, in effect a larger diameter tube... there are other factors that alter volume too but not piping length alone. About two years ago I did a lot of reasearch on this exact topic for irrigating a property in Idaho by pumping water from a pond... there were several problems due to the hilly terrain. In the end several pumps proved inadequate... it was less costly and entailed far less labor by hauling water with a cart. And if the OP wants to irrigate 6 acres I'd definitely recommend a much larger well. I have two wells on my property, the one for my house was tested and delivers 12 gallons a minute, the one that used to be used for irrigating crops delivers 30 gallons a minute. I use the larger well only occasionally, to water my vegetable garden and to fill the buckets I sometimes haul about... I also use it to wash my tractors and whatever else requires large volumes of water. True only if the tail is lower than the head. For gravity fed drip irrigation what you say is true. However, most cases the person will be standing at the end of the line two or three feet higher to water the plants. I have run the water hoses for long distances and it can be done. However I did state that I tend to use a soaker hose that I do not raise the tail of the hose. The sprayer does not work very good because it does lack pressure. Raising a few feet, say 12' to an upstairs toilet, there'll be no noticable difference but when running pipe outdoors, depending on terrain, lift can easily change 50', 100' and more... that can make a big difference on what kind of pump is needed... pumps are rated by lift... even those old fahioned hand pumps are typically rated at like 20' lift. This one will raise water 23' max: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...duct_5846_5846 With electric and gas/diesel engine pumps price raises drastically as water lift raises... my friend in Idaho learned this the hard way, he laid over a mile of piping all over his property before ever checking out pumps... naturally his pond was at the lowest point. As I said, in the end he abandoned his pumping idea and followed my recommendation to haul water. He alkready had a small tractor and cart. At first he didn't take my recomendation to use buckets so he bought a 250 gallon poly tank, the largest he could fit in his cart. He didn't consider the weight of water and nearly ruined his cart the first time he started to fill that tank... a gallon of water is about 8 pounds, you do the math. The Original Poster wanted Taps at the end for watering plants. But like many Posters the OP rarely responds back for feedback. Will likely never hear from that poster again... lots of new large property owners think exactly the same thing, they are going to pipe their irrigation water... just won't work unless one spends a LOT of bucks. Originally I thought I would pipe water but fortunately all I did was buy ten 100' lengths of 5/8" Swan garden hose... first time I charged just three lenghts and tried to drag it about I knew I ****ed up, could give ya a hernia. But that hose was on sale at Lowe's for $10 each and ten years later I'm still using that hose, some is on my hose reels, so no loss. I even have two lengths still unused. Each length came with one of those multi-spray nozzles, cheapo plastic, all are shit canned... ever you buy a nozzle be sure it's metal. |
#10
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:.
Will likely never hear from that poster again... lots of new large property owners think exactly the same thing, they are going to pipe their irrigation water... just won't work unless one spends a LOT of bucks. Originally I thought I would pipe water but fortunately all I did was buy ten 100' lengths of 5/8" Swan garden hose... first time I charged just three lenghts and tried to drag it about I knew I ****ed up, could give ya a hernia. But that hose was on sale at Lowe's for $10 each and ten years later I'm still using that hose, some is on my hose reels, so no loss. I even have two lengths still unused. Each length came with one of those multi-spray nozzles, cheapo plastic, all are shit canned... ever you buy a nozzle be sure it's metal. I also started off with buried lines, i removed the worthless expensive lines. I now use light weight hoses with quick connect links and use a garden wagon to move the segments around. I do not use the hose that often perhaps one a week on average. I had those heavy duty hoses at first, I have them still, but they can cause a hernia. I like the light weight ones. It would take more time for me fill barrels and get the tractor out that for me to use hoses. -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
#11
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
"Nad R" wrote in message
... Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:. Will likely never hear from that poster again... lots of new large property owners think exactly the same thing, they are going to pipe their irrigation water... just won't work unless one spends a LOT of bucks. Originally I thought I would pipe water but fortunately all I did was buy ten 100' lengths of 5/8" Swan garden hose... first time I charged just three lenghts and tried to drag it about I knew I ****ed up, could give ya a hernia. But that hose was on sale at Lowe's for $10 each and ten years later I'm still using that hose, some is on my hose reels, so no loss. I even have two lengths still unused. Each length came with one of those multi-spray nozzles, cheapo plastic, all are shit canned... ever you buy a nozzle be sure it's metal. I also started off with buried lines, i removed the worthless expensive lines. I now use light weight hoses with quick connect links and use a garden wagon to move the segments around. I do not use the hose that often perhaps one a week on average. I had those heavy duty hoses at first, I have them still, but they can cause a hernia. I like the light weight ones. It would take more time for me fill barrels and get the tractor out that for me to use hoses. You've failed the boy and his toy test. Boys love to play with tractors. I use hoses with click clack connectors onto the ends of my polypipe, but then I'm not a boy. |
#12
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Nad R" wrote in message ... Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:. Will likely never hear from that poster again... lots of new large property owners think exactly the same thing, they are going to pipe their irrigation water... just won't work unless one spends a LOT of bucks. Originally I thought I would pipe water but fortunately all I did was buy ten 100' lengths of 5/8" Swan garden hose... first time I charged just three lenghts and tried to drag it about I knew I ****ed up, could give ya a hernia. But that hose was on sale at Lowe's for $10 each and ten years later I'm still using that hose, some is on my hose reels, so no loss. I even have two lengths still unused. Each length came with one of those multi-spray nozzles, cheapo plastic, all are shit canned... ever you buy a nozzle be sure it's metal. I also started off with buried lines, i removed the worthless expensive lines. I now use light weight hoses with quick connect links and use a garden wagon to move the segments around. I do not use the hose that often perhaps one a week on average. I had those heavy duty hoses at first, I have them still, but they can cause a hernia. I like the light weight ones. It would take more time for me fill barrels and get the tractor out that for me to use hoses. You've failed the boy and his toy test. Boys love to play with tractors. I use hoses with click clack connectors onto the ends of my polypipe, but then I'm not a boy. Ouch! -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
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