Billy wrote:

Today in the USA, like those in Europe are concerned with an economic
collapse. There maybe a temporary solution but getting worse in the long
run. In the USA a two thirds majority is needed to get anything done. Not
enough votes to raise taxes and not enough votes to cut the budget.

If nothing gets done by August 2, that is the day the economy could
collapse. If they do vote for temporary solution the collapse day will be
temporarily delayed.

Indeed. What do they expect to happen in a six month window - a miracle?

In a 1 year window, the Republicans hope to beat Obama in the
presidential elections. Which is IMHO a charade to make it look like the
politicians are really doing something, like a couple of WWF Smack-Down
wrestlers before their scripted match. As it stands, the scenario is
that the Democrats are crooks, and the Republicans are crazy. The rich
own the 5 major corporations that control the media by which we are ill
informed http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/47530_comment.php#48355
, and through bribes (campaign contributions), the politicians. As with
our healthcare reforms, I predict that the rich will win the next
election.

I do not think so, I think the Democrats will win big time and the rich
will lose.

My sad reasoning to predict the future elections. The last election 80% of
the Democrats that lost voted against Obamas health care plan. With a two
party system this allowed Republicans to take over the house. It was a
narrow victory for the health care plan and allot of Democrats voted
against it. Eighty percent of democrats that voted for Obamas health care
plan got re-elected. If any Republicans voted for the Health care was next
to none.

Now the Republicans see this a great victory and started to show their true
side for minimalist government. They are in lock step and loyal as if was
from the word of God "Itself"

The Republican party has always had a loyalist religious view backing their
views. There was the "Moral Majority", "Contract with America" and now the
"Tea Party". If history says anything they will lose miserably in the next
election as with the other republican loses.

I like the saying from the House Speaker Tip O'neal under President Reagan:
"The people under the Democratic party helps the average American
financially that they become rich enough to become a Republican". The
Republican party then strips the wealth from those average Americans. So
back and forth we go.

Another thing that is going against the Republicans is the Baby Boomers are
now retiring in droves. They want their money back that they paid into. The
Republicans are all rolling each other over a cliff after they passed that
"Ryan Bill" to privatize Social Security". But the Republicans will end up
dragging the nation over that cliff with them.

THIS TIME will be different, the republican party will do nothing to help
Obama get out of the mess that the Republican Party created. I think they
will crash the currency and blame it on Obama. I believe Obama will get
re-elected provide he is still alive. But the country will be devastated.
It reminds of a sports saying, "it is a good loss, if your opponent is so
beat up and exhausted where he will not be able to play again for a long
time".

The Republican Party be so will joyous to see the Democratic party have a
hard cleaning up their mess. The Republicans care more about beating Obama
that helping their own Nation. The Republicans want to crash the economy,
in my opinion. Otherwise they will make a deal with Obama and raise the
taxes.

If Obama wins and Majority in house and Senate. He will change that senate
rule of two thirds rule to a fifty one percent rule for passage of tax
laws. The rich will starting paying back what they stole and more.

But we are going to go through economic Hell in the meantime.

Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden.
Orson Scott Card

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In Nad R
wrote:

I do not think so, I think the Democrats will win big time and the
rich will lose.

What about all those rich Democrats? Or don't you think there are any?

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

Bert Hyman wrote:
In Nad R
wrote:

I do not think so, I think the Democrats will win big time and the
rich will lose.

What about all those rich Democrats? Or don't you think there are any?

They are but they do not mind paying their taxes in order to help others or
the nation. If they hate paying taxes then they are republicans in sheep
clothing.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Nad R wrote:
Bert Hyman wrote:
In Nad R
wrote:

I do not think so, I think the Democrats will win big time and the
rich will lose.

What about all those rich Democrats? Or don't you think there are
any?

They are but they do not mind paying their taxes in order to help
others or the nation. If they hate paying taxes then they are
republicans in sheep clothing.

How about giving this a rest? It's way OT and was in its previous version.

D

"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Nad R wrote:
Bert Hyman wrote:
In Nad R
wrote:
I do not think so, I think the Democrats will win big time and the
rich will lose.
What about all those rich Democrats? Or don't you think there are
any? They are but they do not mind paying their taxes in order to help
others or the nation. If they hate paying taxes then they are
republicans in sheep clothing.

How about giving this a rest? It's way OT and was in its previous version.

D

Fine with me
--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Billy wrote:

Today in the USA, like those in Europe are concerned with an economic
collapse. There maybe a temporary solution but getting worse in the long
run. In the USA a two thirds majority is needed to get anything done. Not
enough votes to raise taxes and not enough votes to cut the budget.

If nothing gets done by August 2, that is the day the economy could
collapse. If they do vote for temporary solution the collapse day will be
temporarily delayed.

Indeed. What do they expect to happen in a six month window - a miracle?

In a 1 year window, the Republicans hope to beat Obama in the
presidential elections. Which is IMHO a charade to make it look like the
politicians are really doing something, like a couple of WWF Smack-Down
wrestlers before their scripted match. As it stands, the scenario is
that the Democrats are crooks, and the Republicans are crazy. The rich
own the 5 major corporations that control the media by which we are ill
informed http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/47530_comment.php#48355
, and through bribes (campaign contributions), the politicians. As with
our healthcare reforms, I predict that the rich will win the next
election.

I do not think so, I think the Democrats will win big time and the rich
will lose.

My sad reasoning to predict the future elections. The last election 80% of
the Democrats that lost voted against Obamas health care plan. With a two
party system this allowed Republicans to take over the house. It was a
narrow victory for the health care plan and allot of Democrats voted
against it. Eighty percent of democrats that voted for Obamas health care
plan got re-elected. If any Republicans voted for the Health care was next
to none.

Now the Republicans see this a great victory and started to show their true
side for minimalist government. They are in lock step and loyal as if was
from the word of God "Itself"

The Republican party has always had a loyalist religious view backing their
views. There was the "Moral Majority", "Contract with America" and now the
"Tea Party". If history says anything they will lose miserably in the next
election as with the other republican loses.

I like the saying from the House Speaker Tip O'neal under President Reagan:
"The people under the Democratic party helps the average American
financially that they become rich enough to become a Republican". The
Republican party then strips the wealth from those average Americans. So
back and forth we go.

Another thing that is going against the Republicans is the Baby Boomers are
now retiring in droves. They want their money back that they paid into. The
Republicans are all rolling each other over a cliff after they passed that
"Ryan Bill" to privatize Social Security". But the Republicans will end up
dragging the nation over that cliff with them.

THIS TIME will be different, the republican party will do nothing to help
Obama get out of the mess that the Republican Party created. I think they
will crash the currency and blame it on Obama. I believe Obama will get
re-elected provide he is still alive. But the country will be devastated.
It reminds of a sports saying, "it is a good loss, if your opponent is so
beat up and exhausted where he will not be able to play again for a long
time".

The Republican Party be so will joyous to see the Democratic party have a
hard cleaning up their mess. The Republicans care more about beating Obama
that helping their own Nation. The Republicans want to crash the economy,
in my opinion. Otherwise they will make a deal with Obama and raise the
taxes.
We are offered Liberal or Conservative management, but the owners stay
the same.


If Obama wins and Majority in house and Senate. He will change that senate
rule of two thirds rule to a fifty one percent rule for passage of tax
laws. The rich will starting paying back what they stole and more.

But we are going to go through economic Hell in the meantime.

“Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their
wealth.�
-Lucy Parsons (born circa 1853 – March 7, 1942)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Parsons

Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden.
Orson Scott Card
--
- Billy
Obama is now backing a bipartisan Senate budget plan that would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy. In addition to entitlement cuts, the so-called "Gang of Six" plan would eliminate a number of popular tax breaks and deductions, including write-offs for home mortgage interest and employer-provided health benefits. The savings would help offset the cost of then lowering the top individual and corporate tax rates from 35 percent to at least 29 percent.

America is not broke.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/


You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month term, and all this bullshit would stop, all over Wall Street. That's all it would take. Just once.
Vote 3rd Party

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

We are offered Liberal or Conservative management, but the owners stay
the same.

The owners will be the same, but their authority over others will Hopefully
be weakened greatly.

rule of two thirds rule to a fifty one percent rule for passage of tax
laws. The rich will starting paying back what they stole and more.

But we are going to go through economic Hell in the meantime.

Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.�

Not a true statement. During bad economic times, the rich have often been
brought down. French, American, English revolutions come to mind. With a
democratic society built in the next revolution should incur a bloodless
revolution, vote them out and raise taxes on the rich. If the rich move
over seas... tariffs.

Extra note: To ease Davids soul "alt.politics.usa" is some what
interesting.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Jul 27, 6:07*am, Nad R wrote:
Billy wrote:
In article ,
*Nad R wrote:
We are offered Liberal or Conservative management, but the owners stay
the same.

The owners will be the same, but their authority over others will Hopefully
be weakened greatly.

rule of two thirds rule to a fifty one percent rule for passage of tax
laws. The rich will starting paying back what they stole and more.

But we are going to go through economic Hell in the meantime.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.”

Not a true statement. During bad economic times, the rich have often been
brought down. French, American, English revolutions come to mind. With a
democratic society built in the next revolution should incur a bloodless
revolution, vote them out and raise taxes on the rich. If the rich move
over seas... tariffs.

Extra note: To ease Davids soul "alt.politics.usa" is some what
interesting.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R *(Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Class warfare is not the solution. Look at the old USSR. We could
all live in poverty except of course for the party elite.
Now look at China. They may be communist but probably have a higher
percentage of millionaires than the US.

Frank wrote:
On Jul 27, 6:07 am, Nad R wrote:
Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:
We are offered Liberal or Conservative management, but the owners
stay the same.

The owners will be the same, but their authority over others will
Hopefully be weakened greatly.

rule of two thirds rule to a fifty one percent rule for passage of
tax laws. The rich will starting paying back what they stole and
more.

But we are going to go through economic Hell in the meantime.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their
wealth.”

Not a true statement. During bad economic times, the rich have often
been brought down. French, American, English revolutions come to
mind. With a democratic society built in the next revolution should
incur a bloodless revolution, vote them out and raise taxes on the
rich. If the rich move over seas... tariffs.

Extra note: To ease Davids soul "alt.politics.usa" is some what
interesting.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Class warfare is not the solution. Look at the old USSR. We could
all live in poverty except of course for the party elite.
Now look at China. They may be communist but probably have a higher
percentage of millionaires than the US.

Class warfare has always been the choice of the rich. They've been suceeding at
it for years. As Warren Buffet said:
"There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's
making war, and we're winning. "

On Jul 26, 11:24*pm, Billy wrote:
In article ,
*Nad R wrote:









Billy wrote:

Today in the USA, like those in Europe are concerned with an economic
collapse. There maybe a temporary solution but getting worse in the long
run. In the USA a two thirds majority is needed to get anything done. Not
enough votes to raise taxes and not enough votes to cut the budget.

If nothing gets done by August 2, that is the day the economy could
collapse. If they do vote for temporary solution the collapse day will be
temporarily delayed.

Indeed. *What do they expect to happen in a six month window - a miracle?

In a 1 year window, the Republicans hope to beat Obama in the
presidential elections. Which is IMHO a charade to make it look like the
politicians are really doing something, like a couple of WWF Smack-Down
wrestlers before their scripted match. As it stands, the scenario is
that the Democrats are crooks, and the Republicans are crazy. The rich
own the 5 major corporations that control the media by which we are ill
informed http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/47530_comment.php#48355
, and through bribes (campaign contributions), the politicians. As with
our healthcare reforms, I predict that the rich will win the next
election.

I do not think so, I think the Democrats will win big time and the rich
will lose.

My sad reasoning to predict the future elections. The last election 80% of
the Democrats that lost voted against Obamas health care plan. With a two
party system this allowed Republicans to take over the house. It was a
narrow victory for the health care plan and allot of Democrats voted
against it. Eighty percent of democrats that voted for Obamas health care
plan got re-elected. If any Republicans voted for the Health care was next
to none.

Now the Republicans see this a great victory and started to show their true
side for minimalist government. They are in lock step and loyal as if was
from the word of God "Itself"

The Republican party has always had a loyalist religious view backing their
views. There was the "Moral Majority", "Contract with America" and now the
"Tea Party". If history says anything they will lose miserably in the next
election as with the other republican loses.

I like the saying from the House Speaker Tip O'neal under President Reagan:
"The people under the Democratic party helps the average American
financially that they become rich enough to become a Republican". The
Republican party then strips the wealth from those average Americans. So
back and forth we go.

Another thing that is going against the Republicans is the Baby Boomers are
now retiring in droves. They want their money back that they paid into. The
Republicans are all rolling each other over a cliff after they passed that
"Ryan Bill" to privatize Social Security". But the Republicans will end up
dragging the nation over that cliff with them.

THIS TIME will be different, the republican party will do nothing to help
Obama get out of the mess that the Republican Party created. I think they
will crash the currency and blame it on Obama. I believe Obama will get
re-elected provide he is still alive. But the country will be devastated.
It reminds of a sports saying, "it is a good loss, if your opponent is so
beat up and exhausted where he will not be able to play again for a long
time".

The Republican Party be so will joyous to see the Democratic party have a
hard cleaning up their mess. The Republicans care more about beating Obama
that helping their own Nation. The Republicans want to crash the economy,
in my opinion. Otherwise they will make a deal with Obama and raise the
taxes.

We are offered Liberal or Conservative management, but the owners stay
the same.



If Obama wins and Majority in house and Senate. He will change that senate
rule of two thirds rule to a fifty one percent rule for passage of tax
laws. The rich will starting paying back what they stole and more.

But we are going to go through economic Hell in the meantime.

“Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their
wealth.”
-Lucy Parsons (born circa 1853 – March 7, 1942)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Parsons

Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden.
Orson Scott Card

--
- Billy
Obama is now backing a bipartisan Senate budget plan that would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy. In addition to entitlement cuts, the so-called "Gang of Six" plan would eliminate a number of popular tax breaks and deductions, including write-offs for home mortgage interest and employer-provided health benefits. The savings would help offset the cost of then lowering the top individual and corporate tax rates from 35 percent to at least 29 percent.

America is not broke.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/mar/10/michael-mo...

You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month term, and all this bullshit would stop, all over Wall Street. That's all it would take. Just once.

From your mouth to HER ear. But don't hold your breath. Crooks stick
together. The crooks in the Obama ""Justice" Department are doing
worse so far than their counterparts in the Bush era. You think
Alberto Gonsalez, Bush's AG until even he was forced out, will ever
pay for his crimes. Bwwwaaahhhhaaaa!

Vote 3rd Party

Would love to! But the criminals in the Congress have it rigged so
they can enjoy their power and their retirement perks with no concern
for the oath they swore upon taking office. The intellectual level of
the people in Congress, ESPECIALLY the no-nothing "Tea Party"
freshman, makes us the laughing stock of the world.

Not long ago there WERE citizen legislators who believed they should
work TOGETHERor the good of the country. But the last 40 years of
deliberate, cold-blooded planning by the Republicans have created a
situation where the voters (more and more ignorant, as the schools get
worse and worse, and TV and celebrities are their ""education"")
actually believe what they see on the TV commercials. Money is the
name of the game. No person of quality would expose themselves to the
kind of **** that does down during elections. The few real legislators
left in the Congress are all older folks with safe seats. Plus a
couple of surprises, like Al Franken.
The Republicans are militarily organized; they march in step and do
what their corporate masters demand. The Democrats are wildly
disorganized; fight within themselves; can't get anything done; don't
recognized that in unity there is strength. P lus, the Blue Dog
Democrats should really cross the aisle; they are Democrats in name
only.

HB

In article
,
Higgs Boson wrote:

On Jul 26, 11:24*pm, Billy wrote:
In article ,
*Nad R wrote:









Billy wrote:

Today in the USA, like those in Europe are concerned with an economic
collapse. There maybe a temporary solution but getting worse in the
long
run. In the USA a two thirds majority is needed to get anything done.
Not
enough votes to raise taxes and not enough votes to cut the budget.

If nothing gets done by August 2, that is the day the economy could
collapse. If they do vote for temporary solution the collapse day
will be
temporarily delayed.

Indeed. *What do they expect to happen in a six month window - a
miracle?

In a 1 year window, the Republicans hope to beat Obama in the
presidential elections. Which is IMHO a charade to make it look like
the
politicians are really doing something, like a couple of WWF Smack-Down
wrestlers before their scripted match. As it stands, the scenario is
that the Democrats are crooks, and the Republicans are crazy. The rich
own the 5 major corporations that control the media by which we are ill
informed http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/47530_comment.php#48355
, and through bribes (campaign contributions), the politicians. As with
our healthcare reforms, I predict that the rich will win the next
election.

I do not think so, I think the Democrats will win big time and the rich
will lose.

My sad reasoning to predict the future elections. The last election 80%
of
the Democrats that lost voted against Obamas health care plan. With a two
party system this allowed Republicans to take over the house. It was a
narrow victory for the health care plan and allot of Democrats voted
against it. Eighty percent of democrats that voted for Obamas health care
plan got re-elected. If any Republicans voted for the Health care was
next
to none.

Now the Republicans see this a great victory and started to show their
true
side for minimalist government. They are in lock step and loyal as if was
from the word of God "Itself"

The Republican party has always had a loyalist religious view backing
their
views. There was the "Moral Majority", "Contract with America" and now
the
"Tea Party". If history says anything they will lose miserably in the
next
election as with the other republican loses.

I like the saying from the House Speaker Tip O'neal under President
Reagan:
"The people under the Democratic party helps the average American
financially that they become rich enough to become a Republican". The
Republican party then strips the wealth from those average Americans. So
back and forth we go.

Another thing that is going against the Republicans is the Baby Boomers
are
now retiring in droves. They want their money back that they paid into.
The
Republicans are all rolling each other over a cliff after they passed
that
"Ryan Bill" to privatize Social Security". But the Republicans will end
up
dragging the nation over that cliff with them.

THIS TIME will be different, the republican party will do nothing to help
Obama get out of the mess that the Republican Party created. I think they
will crash the currency and blame it on Obama. I believe Obama will get
re-elected provide he is still alive. But the country will be devastated.
It reminds of a sports saying, "it is a good loss, if your opponent is so
beat up and exhausted where he will not be able to play again for a long
time".

The Republican Party be so will joyous to see the Democratic party have a
hard cleaning up their mess. The Republicans care more about beating
Obama
that helping their own Nation. The Republicans want to crash the economy,
in my opinion. Otherwise they will make a deal with Obama and raise the
taxes.

We are offered Liberal or Conservative management, but the owners stay
the same.



If Obama wins and Majority in house and Senate. He will change that
senate
rule of two thirds rule to a fifty one percent rule for passage of tax
laws. The rich will starting paying back what they stole and more.

But we are going to go through economic Hell in the meantime.

³Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their
wealth.²
-Lucy Parsons (born circa 1853 * March 7,
1942)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Parsons

Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden.
Orson Scott Card

--
- Billy
Obama is now backing a bipartisan Senate budget plan that would cut Social
Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy. In addition to
entitlement cuts, the so-called "Gang of Six" plan would eliminate a number
of popular tax breaks and deductions, including write-offs for home
mortgage interest and employer-provided health benefits. The savings would
help offset the cost of then lowering the top individual and corporate tax
rates from 35 percent to at least 29 percent.

America is not broke.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/mar/10/michael-mo...

You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month
term, and all this bullshit would stop, all over Wall Street. That's all it
would take. Just once.

From your mouth to HER ear. But don't hold your breath. Crooks stick
together. The crooks in the Obama ""Justice" Department are doing
worse so far than their counterparts in the Bush era. You think
Alberto Gonsalez, Bush's AG until even he was forced out, will ever
pay for his crimes. Bwwwaaahhhhaaaa!

Vote 3rd Party

Would love to! But the criminals in the Congress have it rigged so
they can enjoy their power and their retirement perks with no concern
for the oath they swore upon taking office. The intellectual level of
the people in Congress, ESPECIALLY the no-nothing "Tea Party"
freshman, makes us the laughing stock of the world.

Not long ago there WERE citizen legislators who believed they should
work TOGETHERor the good of the country. But the last 40 years of
deliberate, cold-blooded planning by the Republicans have created a
situation where the voters (more and more ignorant, as the schools get
worse and worse, and TV and celebrities are their ""education"")
actually believe what they see on the TV commercials. Money is the
name of the game. No person of quality would expose themselves to the
kind of **** that does down during elections. The few real legislators
left in the Congress are all older folks with safe seats. Plus a
couple of surprises, like Al Franken.
The Republicans are militarily organized; they march in step and do
what their corporate masters demand. The Democrats are wildly
disorganized; fight within themselves; can't get anything done; don't
recognized that in unity there is strength. P lus, the Blue Dog
Democrats should really cross the aisle; they are Democrats in name
only.

HB

Hope you're not looking for an argument :O( The 2 budget bills before
Congress are only theatrical props to give the illusion that there is a
budget debate. Both budget plans only further the screwing of America.
They aren't the only budget proposals, but they are the only proposals
that corporate media will report on.

Kucinich, for example, suggested no new taxes, and proposed to take all
needed funds from the military budget, which is about half of the
world's military budget.

He also noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

The "Shock Doctrine" posits that times of high stress are used to get
the population to do things that they wouldn't in normal times. This
budget process seems to fit the bill perfectly, i.e. welfare for Main
St. is again cut in order to support welfare for Wall Street, and
closing loop-holes is called a tax increase on the rich.
http://www.phillytrib.com/tribune/tr...tribune-editor
ial-jobs-growth-could-cut-federal-deficit.html

"Never before have so few with so much promised to take away so much
from so many and then laugh their asses off as the so many with so
little vote for the so few with so much."
- James Pence
http://www.hillbillyreport.org/diary/2459/dennis-kucinich-on-budget
--
- Billy
Obama is now backing a bipartisan Senate budget plan that would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy. In addition to entitlement cuts, the so-called "Gang of Six" plan would eliminate a number of popular tax breaks and deductions, including write-offs for home mortgage interest and employer-provided health benefits. The savings would help offset the cost of then lowering the top individual and corporate tax rates from 35 percent to at least 29 percent.

America is not broke.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/


You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month term, and all this bullshit would stop, all over Wall Street. That's all it would take. Just once.
Vote 3rd Party

On Jul 27, 9:11*am, Frank wrote:
On Jul 27, 6:07*am, Nad R wrote:









Billy wrote:
In article ,
*Nad R wrote:
We are offered Liberal or Conservative management, but the owners stay
the same.

The owners will be the same, but their authority over others will Hopefully
be weakened greatly.

rule of two thirds rule to a fifty one percent rule for passage of tax
laws. The rich will starting paying back what they stole and more.

But we are going to go through economic Hell in the meantime.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.”

Not a true statement. During bad economic times, the rich have often been
brought down. French, American, English revolutions come to mind. With a
democratic society built in the next revolution should incur a bloodless
revolution, vote them out and raise taxes on the rich. If the rich move
over seas... tariffs.

Extra note: To ease Davids soul "alt.politics.usa" is some what
interesting.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R *(Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Class warfare is not the solution. *Look at the old USSR. *We could
all live in poverty except of course for the party elite.
Now look at China. *They may be communist but probably have a higher
percentage of millionaires than the US.

Hah! They're about as Communist as I, and I'm a card-carrying ETHICAL
capitalist.
China since not long after Mao took over, has been a totalitarian
state with absolute power over the masses. The crazy boss could order
peasants to turn their food kettles and household metal into (non-
functioning) backyard furnaces and they had to obey. And starved to
death in their millions.

The Elites, of course, lived like Elites in every command economy.
Also in one very large technically democratic society whose electoral
process is fueled by money and the stupidity and ignorance of the
masses.

What has changed in China since ??? -- a few General Secretaries back
-- said ""It's glorious to be rich"" is that power has shifted to
local entities, so the local power boss has a lot more leeway to
squeeze the po'folks and line his own pockets with money stolen from
building & other projects. Results, often enough, are buildings
falling down on school children, miners dying horribly in poorly
constructed and ventilated coal mines, and more good stuff like that.
Like the bullet trainhat just derailed -- hastily and poorly
constructed, with officials ignoring warnings from those who knew.
Result: Many dead and injured. Which bullet train is next? Note that
Japan has NEVER had a fatality in decades of running their bullet
trains even faster. Japan is NOT a command economy.

Nobody is stopping people in China from becoming millionaires, because
the whole country runs on money -- just like, hmmm. let me think, what
other very large "developed"country also runs on money, even unto, or
especially, in its electoral processes.

HB

In article
,
John wrote:
The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism by Naomi Klein
http://www.amazon.com/Shock-Doctrine...ism/dp/0312427
999/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1300208360&sr=1-1
(Available at library near you.)
P. 184 - 189

I find the similarities between China then, and America now, are very
disturbing.
--
- Billy
Obama is now backing a bipartisan Senate budget plan that would cut Social
Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy. In addition to
entitlement cuts, the so-called "Gang of Six" plan would eliminate a number
of popular tax breaks and deductions, including write-offs for home
mortgage interest and employer-provided health benefits. The savings would
help offset the cost of then lowering the top individual and corporate tax
rates from 35 percent to at least 29 percent.

America is not broke.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/mar/10/michael-mo...

You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month
term, and all this bullshit would stop, all over Wall Street. That's all it
would take. Just once.
Vote 3rd Party

Are you referring here to what has happened in the US to the auto
industry, and the banking industry? Do you think the Obama
Administration took over the big 2 auto companies and gave them to the
unions as a way to consolidate power?

Sorry, I just don't see the where these 2 situations line up. Please
clarify.

John

I have no idea what happened with the auto industry bail-out. I thought
that they were given loans (at 0% interest, which quickly go invested in
3% T-Bonds), got there act together, and then repaid the loans. I do
know though, that American home owners never got a bail-out. American
workers never got a bail-out.

The American auto industry has been making large shoddy cars, that gave
large, quarterly, corporate profits for decades. This was good for stock
holders, but ultimately lead to a lack of interest in American cars by
the public. If the UAW took over, I know they would be more interested
in jobs, and hopefully take a longer view on corporate earnings.

No I was referring to Milton Friedman's neo-liberalism which excludes
democracy from the free-markets.

The main points of neo-liberalism include:

1. THE RULE OF THE MARKET. Liberating "free" enterprise or private
enterprise from any bonds imposed by the government (the state) no
matter how much social damage this causes. Greater openness to
international trade and investment, as in NAFTA. Reduce wages by
de-unionizing workers and eliminating workers' rights that had been won
over many years of struggle. No more price controls. All in all, total
freedom of movement for capital, goods and services. To convince us this
is good for us, they say "an unregulated market is the best way to
increase economic growth, which will ultimately benefit everyone." It's
like Reagan's "supply-side" and "trickle-down" economics -- but somehow
the wealth nrver trickled down.

2. CUTTING PUBLIC EXPENDITURE FOR SOCIAL SERVICES like education and
health care. REDUCING THE SAFETY-NET FOR THE POOR, and even maintenance
of roads, bridges, water supply -- again in the name of reducing
government's role. Of course, they don't oppose government subsidies and
tax benefits for business.

3. DEREGULATION. Reduce government regulation of everything that
could diminsh profits, including protecting the environmentand safety on
the job.

4. PRIVATIZATION. Sell state-owned enterprises, goods and services to
private investors. This includes banks, key industries, railroads, toll
highways, electricity, schools, hospitals and even fresh water. Although
usually done in the name of greater efficiency, which is often needed,
privatization has mainly had the effect of concentrating wealth even
more in a few hands and making the public pay even more for its needs.

5. ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF "THE PUBLIC GOOD" or "COMMUNITY" and
replacing it with "individual responsibility." Pressuring the poorest
people in a society to find solutions to their lack of health care,
education and social security all by themselves -- then blaming them, if
they fail, as "lazy."

Lastly, neo-liberalism seems to work best in a police state.

The fish rots from the head down was my meaning. If the top 1%'s proxies
(corporations) were treated like the common criminals that they are, and
were treated as such, they would lose their taste for criminal behavior.
---

http://www.youjustmademylist.com/?p=686
Less than one week after the federal government forked over $85 billion
to bail out AIG, executives of AIG headed for a week-long retreat at a
luxury resort and spa, the St. Regis Resort in Monarch Beach,
California. Looks nice huh? I wish I could take a week off and relax
with a massage and a leisurely dip in the pool but I’m too busy paying
for AIG CEO Robert Willumstad’s vacation.

The week following the September bailout, AIG employees and distributors
participated in a California retreat which cost $444,000 and featured
spa treatments, banquets, and golf outings.[57][58]

It was reported that the trip was a reward for top-performing
life-insurance agents planned before the bailout.[59]

Less than 24 hours after the news of the party was first reported by the
media, it was reported that the Federal Reserve had agreed to give AIG
an additional loan of up to $37.8 billion.[60]

AP reported on October 17 that AIG executives spent $86,000 on a
previously scheduled English hunting trip. News of the lavish spending
came just days after AIG received an additional $37.8 billion loan from
the Federal Reserve, on top of a previous $85 billion emergency loan
granted the month before. Regarding the hunting trip, the company
responded, "We regret that this event was not canceled."[61] An October
30, 2008 article from CNBC reported that AIG had already drawn upon $90
billion of the $123 billion allocated for loans.

[62] On November 10, 2008, just a few days before renegotiating another
bailout with the US Government for $40 billion, ABC News reported that
AIG spent $343,000 on a trip to a lavish resort in Phoenix, Arizona. [63]
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/liv...r_bailout_aig_
executives_h.html


.. . . it suggests that the bailout is either incompetence or fraud,
because the problem, according to the government, is the defaulting
mortgages, so the money should be directed at refinancing the mortgages
and paying off the foreclosed ones. And that would restore the value of
the mortgage-backed securities that are threatening the financial
institutions. If the value was restored, the crisis would be over. So
there’s no connection between the government’s explanation of the crisis
and its solution to the crisis.
- Paul Craig Roberts,
former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Department in the Reagan
administration and a former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal.
He has taught at Georgetown University and Stanford University
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/17/ex_asst_treasury_sec_paul_craig

The biggest recipients were the Wall Street bankers who gave liberally
to Obama's election campaign, but the bail-out was set in motion by
Bush's Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson (ex-CEO for Goldman Sachs).
This was in turn due to Robert Rubin (Goldman Sachs: member of the
Board, and Co-Chairman from 1990-1992) who oversaw the removal of the
Glass-Steagull Act which allowed commercial and financial banks to
combine, setting up our present financial situation.

Welcome to neo-liberalism, and the 3rd World.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it’s not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That’s hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don’t get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis