Is this parasitic evil triffid ivy ?


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

I have cut all the vine trunks from a metre of plum tree trunk,will the
rest die ?
the roots are close to the plum tree roots and hard to remove, if I keep
removing green bits as they regrow will the roots die.
I did not want to use glyphosate as it might get to plum tree.

"F Murtz" wrote in message
d.com...
Is this parasitic evil triffid ivy ?

Yes it is.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

I have cut all the vine trunks from a metre of plum tree trunk,will the
rest die ?

The stuff up the tree probably will, but it will regrow at ground level.

the roots are close to the plum tree roots and hard to remove, if I keep
removing green bits as they regrow will the roots die.
I did not want to use glyphosate as it might get to plum tree.

Glyphosate is not effective on ivy. It ignores the stuff completely - I've
tried it and it doesn't work on ivy.

On 8/23/12 7:36 PM, F Murtz wrote:
Is this parasitic evil triffid ivy ?


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

I have cut all the vine trunks from a metre of plum tree trunk,will the
rest die ?
the roots are close to the plum tree roots and hard to remove, if I keep
removing green bits as they regrow will the roots die.
I did not want to use glyphosate as it might get to plum tree.


It strongly appears to be English ivy (Hedera helix). Cutting all stems
near the ground will cause all ivy growth in the tree to die. With
sufficient wind and other disturbances plus seasonal renewal of the
tree's bark, most of the dead growth will eventually fall away.

It is generally recommended that you do not allow ivy to climb trees or
shrubs. The weight of the ivy can cause a tree to fall in a heavy wind
while the shade of the ivy's foliage can smother shrubs. You can
prevent that problem by trimming all climbing shoots 1-3 times a year.

On the other hand, ivy mixed with another vigorous ground cover is an
excellent way to prevent erosion on a steep slope. I have a very steep
hill in my back yard, planted in a mix of English ivy and African daisy
(Osteospermum fruticosum). Each alone is not recommended because each
sends roots to a certain depth, where they form a mat; the surface of
the slope could fail just below that mat. However, the two send their
roots to different depths, eliminating that problem. Furthermore, while
each can aggressively smother other plants, neither of them can conquer
the other.

If you really want to kill the ivy, apply Roundup to the foliage with a
sponge or brush, which will avoid damaging the tree on which it is
growing. Mix a little liquid soap with the Roundup to ensure it wets
the ivy foliage.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:36:42 +1000, F Murtz
wrote:

Is this parasitic evil triffid ivy ?


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

I have cut all the vine trunks from a metre of plum tree trunk,will the
rest die ?
the roots are close to the plum tree roots and hard to remove, if I keep
removing green bits as they regrow will the roots die.
I did not want to use glyphosate as it might get to plum tree.

The best you can do is carefully dig down around the vine roots and
pull them out as best you can... if you water deeply it will make the
job a lot easier, in fact shooting a strong steam of water at the soil
around the vine roots will make the job go a lot quicker... keep at it
and eventually the vine will be kaput. That tree looks too close to
that shed/building and was obviously erected long after that tree was
growing there, why was that structure placed so close... half the
tree's roots are under the building.

"David E. Ross" wrote:

If you really want to kill the ivy, apply Roundup to the foliage with a
sponge or brush, which will avoid damaging the tree on which it is
growing.

That's much too risky. The ivy will quickly draw the Roundup deep
into it's roots where it will be deposited in close proximity to the
tree roots, whereby it will severely damage if not kill the tree. I
strongly suggest removing the ivy roots mechanically (digging). In
most instances it's just not possible to eliminate established vines
without major excavation which will destroy desirable plants nearby as
well, then all one can do is constantly prune away what vines appear.
I constantly prune away all kinds of vines from hedgerows, forest
perimeters, and those that just pop up under trees/shrubs just sitting
out in a field... from seeds that birds drop... that how those vines
arrived at that plum tree, from birds eating vine berries and pooping
the seeds... there is no way to prevent that from reoccuring except by
removing that tree, which is precisely what applying Roundup nearby
will achieve... even is one is lucky enough to yank all those vines
brand new ones will soon appear... birds eat berries, perch in trees,
and poop... since the beginning of time.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote:

If you really want to kill the ivy, apply Roundup to the foliage
with a sponge or brush, which will avoid damaging the tree on which
it is growing.

That's much too risky. The ivy will quickly draw the Roundup deep
into it's roots where it will be deposited in close proximity to the
tree roots, whereby it will severely damage if not kill the tree.

How do you know this? When a plant is growing strongly roundup is drawn
down into the plant after it is applied to from the leaves, this is
docmentated as part of the way it works and the reason using it on dormant
plants is largely a waste of time . Where did you get the bit about it
crossing from the ivy roots to the tree roots via the soil?

David

David Hare-Scott wrote:
Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote:

If you really want to kill the ivy, apply Roundup to the foliage
with a sponge or brush, which will avoid damaging the tree on which
it is growing.

That's much too risky. The ivy will quickly draw the Roundup deep
into it's roots where it will be deposited in close proximity to the
tree roots, whereby it will severely damage if not kill the tree.

How do you know this? When a plant is growing strongly roundup is drawn
down into the plant after it is applied to from the leaves, this is
docmentated as part of the way it works and the reason using it on
dormant plants is largely a waste of time . Where did you get the bit
about it crossing from the ivy roots to the tree roots via the soil?

David


Does the ivy use the tree sap when it attaches itself so tenaciously to
the tree ? IE. is it parasitic ?

Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:36:42 +1000, F
wrote:

Is this parasitic evil triffid ivy ?


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

I have cut all the vine trunks from a metre of plum tree trunk,will the
rest die ?
the roots are close to the plum tree roots and hard to remove, if I keep
removing green bits as they regrow will the roots die.
I did not want to use glyphosate as it might get to plum tree.

The best you can do is carefully dig down around the vine roots and
pull them out as best you can... if you water deeply it will make the
job a lot easier, in fact shooting a strong steam of water at the soil
around the vine roots will make the job go a lot quicker... keep at it
and eventually the vine will be kaput. That tree looks too close to
that shed/building and was obviously erected long after that tree was
growing there, why was that structure placed so close... half the
tree's roots are under the building.


It is a fence.I just moved in and original owner probably planted it.
The ivy roots are right next to the tree roots and are difficult to attack

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 09:17:24 +1000, F Murtz
wrote:

Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:36:42 +1000, F
wrote:

Is this parasitic evil triffid ivy ?


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

I have cut all the vine trunks from a metre of plum tree trunk,will the
rest die ?
the roots are close to the plum tree roots and hard to remove, if I keep
removing green bits as they regrow will the roots die.
I did not want to use glyphosate as it might get to plum tree.

The best you can do is carefully dig down around the vine roots and
pull them out as best you can... if you water deeply it will make the
job a lot easier, in fact shooting a strong steam of water at the soil
around the vine roots will make the job go a lot quicker... keep at it
and eventually the vine will be kaput. That tree looks too close to
that shed/building and was obviously erected long after that tree was
growing there, why was that structure placed so close... half the
tree's roots are under the building.


It is a fence.I just moved in and original owner probably planted it.
The ivy roots are right next to the tree roots and are difficult to attack

Then just snip the vines periodically, it's only one tree, no biggie.

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 09:13:02 +1000, F Murtz
wrote:

David Hare-Scott wrote:
Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote:

If you really want to kill the ivy, apply Roundup to the foliage
with a sponge or brush, which will avoid damaging the tree on which
it is growing.

That's much too risky. The ivy will quickly draw the Roundup deep
into it's roots where it will be deposited in close proximity to the
tree roots, whereby it will severely damage if not kill the tree.

How do you know this? When a plant is growing strongly roundup is drawn
down into the plant after it is applied to from the leaves, this is
docmentated as part of the way it works and the reason using it on
dormant plants is largely a waste of time . Where did you get the bit
about it crossing from the ivy roots to the tree roots via the soil?

David


Does the ivy use the tree sap when it attaches itself so tenaciously to
the tree ? IE. is it parasitic ?

Yes, it's parasitic, but it doesn't suck the sap per se, it extracts
nutrients from the cambium the same way ivies extract minerals from
masonary, slowly weakening the tree making it susceptible to diseases,
and eventually killing it.

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 08:18:38 +1000, "David Hare-Scott"
wrote:

Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote:

If you really want to kill the ivy, apply Roundup to the foliage
with a sponge or brush, which will avoid damaging the tree on which
it is growing.

That's much too risky. The ivy will quickly draw the Roundup deep
into it's roots where it will be deposited in close proximity to the
tree roots, whereby it will severely damage if not kill the tree.

How do you know this?

The same way most folks who possess common sense know such things,
from experience. I've personally done exactly what you propose to an
old wisteria vine growing too close to my back garage door and a short
time later noticed the leaves on my holly bush growing on the other
side of the fence were shriveling. So how many times did your mommy
have to tell you the stove is hot before you burned yourself...

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote:

If you really want to kill the ivy, apply Roundup to the foliage
with a sponge or brush, which will avoid damaging the tree on which
it is growing.

That's much too risky. The ivy will quickly draw the Roundup deep
into it's roots where it will be deposited in close proximity to the
tree roots, whereby it will severely damage if not kill the tree.

How do you know this? When a plant is growing strongly roundup is drawn
down into the plant after it is applied to from the leaves, this is
docmentated as part of the way it works and the reason using it on dormant
plants is largely a waste of time . Where did you get the bit about it
crossing from the ivy roots to the tree roots via the soil?

Have you ever used Roundup near roses? It has a very detrimental effect on
roses and it's not as a result of spray drift. I have to say that I tend
towards agreeing with Sheldon on the soil effect.

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 11:43:14 +1000, "Farm1"
wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote:

If you really want to kill the ivy, apply Roundup to the foliage
with a sponge or brush, which will avoid damaging the tree on which
it is growing.

That's much too risky. The ivy will quickly draw the Roundup deep
into it's roots where it will be deposited in close proximity to the
tree roots, whereby it will severely damage if not kill the tree.

How do you know this? When a plant is growing strongly roundup is drawn
down into the plant after it is applied to from the leaves, this is
docmentated as part of the way it works and the reason using it on dormant
plants is largely a waste of time . Where did you get the bit about it
crossing from the ivy roots to the tree roots via the soil?

Have you ever used Roundup near roses? It has a very detrimental effect on
roses and it's not as a result of spray drift. I have to say that I tend
towards agreeing with Sheldon on the soil effect.

Roundup is systemic, it enters primarilly through the leaves because
that's obviously what is the only unprotected exposed portion of a
plant where it's absorbed and makes a bee line to the plant's roots,
that's where it kills the plant... even their TV ads scream "My
roots!, My roots!".... cutting off a plant's leaves won't kill most
plants. Once concentrated in the roots one can see the plant dying in
only a short time by observing the part one can see, the leaves will
begin to curl and shrivel as if hit with a blow torch. But
underground plants roots spread and entwine with the roots of nearby
plants and that is where the transfer takes place, it's actually as
though the defolient has taken a short cut, in fact it has. I used to
use Roundup but I don't anymore, I stopped using it about ten years
ago. I was spraying my gravel roadway, about 1,000 ft, to get rid of
the weeds that grew through. It was a nasty job spraying on a hot
sunny day (as recommended), it was expensive for the amount I needed,
but I was willing to make the effort and spend the dollars until one
day I noticed that the deer and other critters were browsing on those
freshly sprayed weeds. I still have a gallon of Roundup concentrate
in my shed but I won't use it, I learned to live with a weedy road,
now I mow it. In fact just last week I hacked down a gigantic rugossa
rose bush growing at the edge of my hedgerow that was sticking out to
grab me as I mowed by. I was very tempted to apply Roundupo to those
stumps but thought better of it knowing I'd take down several plants
nearby and create a large defoliated section, I don't want bald spots,
I'll lose some privacy. And there's a very nice large hickory tree
living right there. I strongly suggest thinking very carefully before
applying Roundup. Even when I sprayed my roadway Roundup killed all
flora for two feet per side wider than I sprayed... it took a few days
longer for its effect to creep.

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote:

If you really want to kill the ivy, apply Roundup to the foliage
with a sponge or brush, which will avoid damaging the tree on which
it is growing.

That's much too risky. The ivy will quickly draw the Roundup deep
into it's roots where it will be deposited in close proximity to the
tree roots, whereby it will severely damage if not kill the tree.

How do you know this? When a plant is growing strongly roundup is drawn
down into the plant after it is applied to from the leaves, this is
docmentated as part of the way it works and the reason using it on dormant
plants is largely a waste of time . Where did you get the bit about it
crossing from the ivy roots to the tree roots via the soil?

David

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate
While glyphosate has been associated with deformities in a host of
laboratory animals, its impact on humans remains unclear.

Although the Roundup trademark is registered with the US Patent Office
and still extant, the patent has expired. Glyphosate is marketed in the
US and worldwide in different solution strengths under many
tradenames:[11] Roundup, Buccaneer, Razor Pro (41%), Genesis Extra II
(41% w/ Surfactant), Roundup Pro Concentrate (50.2 %), Rodeo (51.2%),
Aquaneat (53.8%), and Aquamaster (53.5%).[12] These products may contain
other ingredients, causing them to have different effects. For example,
Roundup was found to have different effects than glyphosate alone.[13]
Roundup herbicides are usually water-based solutions containing
glyphosate, a surfactant, and other substances.

Glyphosate kills plants by interfering with the synthesis of the amino
acids phenylalanine, tyrosine and tryptophan. It does this by inhibiting
the enzyme 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase (EPSPS), which
catalyzes the reaction of shikimate-3-phosphate (S3P) and
phosphoenolpyruvate to form 5-enolpyruvyl-shikimate-3-phosphate
(ESP).[15] ESP is subsequently dephosphorylated to chorismate, an
essential precursor in plants for the aromatic amino acids:
phenylalanine, tyrosine and tryptophan.[16][17] These amino acids are
used in protein synthesis and to produce secondary metabolites such as
folates, ubiquinones and naphthoquinone. X-ray crystallographic studies
of glyphosate and EPSPS show that glyphosate functions by occupying the
binding site of the phosphoenolpyruvate, mimicking an intermediate state
of the ternary enzyme substrates complex.[18] The shikimate pathway is
not present in animals, which instead obtain aromatic amino acids from
their diet. Glyphosate has also been shown to inhibit other plant
enzymes,[19][20] and also has been found to affect animal enzymes.

When glyphosate comes into contact with the soil, it can be rapidly
bound to soil particles and be inactivated.[39] Unbound glyphosate can
be degraded by bacteria.[78] It has been proposed that glyphosate
applications increase the infection rate of wheat by fusarium head
blight.[79]

In soils, half-lives vary from as little as three days at a site in
Texas to 141 days at a site in Iowa.[80] In addition, the glyphosate
metabolite aminomethylphosphonic acid has been found in Swedish forest
soils up to two years after a glyphosate application.[81] Glyphosate
adsorption to soil varies depending on the kind of soil.
-----

Then there is the traditional "False advertising" and the ever popular
"Scientific fraud"
On two occasions, the United States EPA has caught scientists
deliberately falsifying test results at research laboratories hired by
Monsanto to study glyphosate.[95][96][97] In the first incident,
involving Industrial Biotest Laboratories (IBT), an EPA reviewer stated,
after finding "routine falsification of data", it was "hard to believe
the scientific integrity of the studies when they said they took
specimens of the uterus from male rabbits".

--
Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg
or
E Pluribus Unum
Green Party Nominee Jill Stein & Running Mate, Cheri Honkala
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/7/13/green_party_nominee_jill_stein_running

Farm1 wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote:

If you really want to kill the ivy, apply Roundup to the foliage
with a sponge or brush, which will avoid damaging the tree on which
it is growing.

That's much too risky. The ivy will quickly draw the Roundup deep
into it's roots where it will be deposited in close proximity to the
tree roots, whereby it will severely damage if not kill the tree.

How do you know this? When a plant is growing strongly roundup is
drawn down into the plant after it is applied to from the leaves,
this is docmentated as part of the way it works and the reason using
it on dormant plants is largely a waste of time . Where did you get
the bit about it crossing from the ivy roots to the tree roots via
the soil?

Have you ever used Roundup near roses? It has a very detrimental
effect on roses and it's not as a result of spray drift. I have to
say that I tend towards agreeing with Sheldon on the soil effect.

I have to say to start I don't know the answer and I am asking questions to
try to work one out. The reason I doubt the crossover from root to root
idea is that glyphosate is said to be quickly deactivated in contact with
the soil so it seems a bit much for it to cross two membranes and the soil
and arrive intact. The idea that ivy draws on the fluids from its host
seems a more promising mechanism to me. If anybody has any references to
that I would like to read them.

D