David E. Ross wrote:
On 9/20/13 8:06 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Kay Lancaster wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 13:55:14 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:
I have these placed in beds all over the garden. Needed some for
new areas. Went to OSH (local homeowners/garden place). Only hose
they carry was so crappy, it split even before using. Tried Home
Despot. Carried same brand.

Decided to revert to previous M.O. : PVC pipe, capped at one end,
other end equipped with hose junction. Small holes punched at
intervals.

Remember, you'll get a significant difference in amount of water
leaked
or sprayed at the beginning compared to the end of the length. You
may
want to do an experimental run, and plan on drilling more holes
towards
the far end of the run once you've seen how the pattern you've
drilled behaves.

FWIW, I buried some of what I call "ooze hose" -- it looks foamy --
http://www.groworganic.com/1-4-mr-so...-100-roll.html under
mulch
and it lasted for many, many years. In clay soils, I like the laser
drilled 1/4" tubing.

And don't forget a backflow preventer.



Why?

David


If there is sufficient pressure in the system -- beyond the connection
to the hose bib -- it is possible for there to be backflow into your
household water line. Soil and soil organisims can enter the system
through the holes in the PVP pipe when the water is shut off. Thus,
there is a possibility of contaminating the household water supply.

How on earth could that much pressure develop and from what? How does this
back pressure get through a closed tap or force its way in past an open tap?
Makes no sense.


In general, a system as proposed by Higgs Boson should have a backflow
preventer, sometimes known as an anti-syphon valve. The building
codes in California (where Higgs and I both live) require it.


Weird. What a waste of money.

In my garden, I paid a landscape contractor to install a fixed
irrigation system with underground pipes supplying above-ground
sprinkler heads. I have a total of 9 valves for the flat areas and 4
valves for the hill, with 13 anti-syphon valves. The same contractor
also designed and installed the landscape.

Well if the code says so then he must do it I suppose.

What would be far more important if you use small sprayers is a line filter.
If you use big irrigation heads then the filter is not required.

D

On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 17:18:48 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson wrote:

Sounds too high-tech for moi g

Cheap and easy to run. Lasts long enough that I figure I get my money's worth.


backflow preventer:

? Why would I need that on such a simple installation? Alerted by you, I read the (terrifying) Wikipedia article, and wonder how I survived all these years using my first basic PVC watering device.g

Perhaps helped that it was downhill from house? Frivolity aside, would it really be needed for small garden beds not uphill from house water supply?

It's required by code in most places; and a cheap and simple Darn Good Idea. For instance, in a warm
climate, you might introduce some of the jollier amoebae into your water system, like Naegleria fowleri
or Entamoeba histolytica. Or some nasty bacteria or waterborne virus.

In our case, since we're on a well and don't chlorinate, I could possibly contaminate the entire aquifer. Most of us have pretty good immune systems most of the time. Sometimes our luck runs out. I try not
to push my luck too far. At any rate, I'd hate to be known in Wikipedia forever as the biologist who
did not fully understand the lessons of the Broad Street Pump Handle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Snow_%28physician%29

Downhill helps... siphons don't run uphill, though you can siphon over a hill. For $5 and a few inches of
teflon tape, I don't mind installing anti-siphon devices.

Kay

"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Kay Lancaster wrote:

And don't forget a backflow preventer.

Why?

In the US you don't need a back flow valve for water coming from a
hose bib, it already has a back flow valve from the main, the entire
residence is protected... back flow valves are required for automatic
irrigation systems because they are typically supplied directly from
the water main before the residential back flow valve. But not
knowing the codes where you live you may want to check... but water
from a hose bib I seriously doubt needs a backflow valve... you've
probably been using the hose bib to irrigate from since the house was
built

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:56:01 AM UTC-7, Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Kay Lancaster wrote:



And don't forget a backflow preventer.



Why?



In the US you don't need a back flow valve for water coming from a

hose bib, it already has a back flow valve from the main, the entire

residence is protected... back flow valves are required for automatic

irrigation systems because they are typically supplied directly from

the water main before the residential back flow valve. But not

knowing the codes where you live you may want to check... but water

from a hose bib I seriously doubt needs a backflow valve... you've

probably been using the hose bib to irrigate from since the house was

built

This discussion has been VERY interesting! Just to be 1000% sure, I'll check out local regs, but I suspect you're right about the hose bib being protected.
Tx to all.

HB

Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Kay Lancaster wrote:

And don't forget a backflow preventer.

Why?

In the US you don't need a back flow valve for water coming from a
hose bib, it already has a back flow valve from the main, the entire
residence is protected... back flow valves are required for automatic
irrigation systems because they are typically supplied directly from
the water main before the residential back flow valve. But not
knowing the codes where you live you may want to check... but water
from a hose bib I seriously doubt needs a backflow valve... you've
probably been using the hose bib to irrigate from since the house was
built

Not quite. My house and garden water supply are two enitirely different
systems with different origins, different lines and different destinations.

In the days when I lived on municipal water I installed several watering
systems attached to the mains (as did many neighbours) and none had a
backflow valve nor was there any municipal regulation or talk of such in any
of the literature.

D

Derald wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

How on earth could that much pressure develop and from what? How
does this back pressure get through a closed tap or force its way in
past an open tap? Makes no sense.


In general, a system as proposed by Higgs Boson should have a
backflow preventer, sometimes known as an anti-syphon valve. The
building codes in California (where Higgs and I both live) require
it.


Weird. What a waste of money.
I think someone misunderstands antisiphon fittings. In the event
of loss of system pressure or the occurance of "negative"
differential, antisiphon valves open the system to the atmosphere to
reduce the possibility of introducing pollutants from downstream. In
many local jurisdictions across US, they are required on at least
exterior faucets/hydrants/hose bibb fittings; on laundry and
dishwashing machines; and on those hand held "shower" things.

I wonder just how often the situation arrises where this gadget actually
does some good. Has it ever been observed? This protection is so vital
that the Sydney metropolitan area (over 4 million people) gets by without
them.

D

David Hare-Scott wrote:
Derald wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

How on earth could that much pressure develop and from what? How
does this back pressure get through a closed tap or force its way in
past an open tap? Makes no sense.


In general, a system as proposed by Higgs Boson should have a
backflow preventer, sometimes known as an anti-syphon valve. The
building codes in California (where Higgs and I both live) require
it.


Weird. What a waste of money.
I think someone misunderstands antisiphon fittings. In the event
of loss of system pressure or the occurance of "negative"
differential, antisiphon valves open the system to the atmosphere to
reduce the possibility of introducing pollutants from downstream. In
many local jurisdictions across US, they are required on at least
exterior faucets/hydrants/hose bibb fittings; on laundry and
dishwashing machines; and on those hand held "shower" things.

I wonder just how often the situation arrises where this gadget
actually does some good. Has it ever been observed? This protection
is so vital that the Sydney metropolitan area (over 4 million people)
gets by without them.

D

Oops. That isn't right. Sydney Water does encourage them and puts backflow
preventers in their meters, home garden systems don't have them though.

D

David Hare-Scott wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
Derald wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

How on earth could that much pressure develop and from what? How
does this back pressure get through a closed tap or force its way
in past an open tap? Makes no sense.


In general, a system as proposed by Higgs Boson should have a
backflow preventer, sometimes known as an anti-syphon valve. The
building codes in California (where Higgs and I both live) require
it.


Weird. What a waste of money.
I think someone misunderstands antisiphon fittings. In the event
of loss of system pressure or the occurance of "negative"
differential, antisiphon valves open the system to the atmosphere to
reduce the possibility of introducing pollutants from downstream. In many
local jurisdictions across US, they are required on at least
exterior faucets/hydrants/hose bibb fittings; on laundry and
dishwashing machines; and on those hand held "shower" things.

I wonder just how often the situation arrises where this gadget
actually does some good. Has it ever been observed? This protection
is so vital that the Sydney metropolitan area (over 4 million people)
gets by without them.

D

Oops. That isn't right. Sydney Water does encourage them and puts
backflow preventers in their meters, home garden systems don't have
them though.

So you can only contaminate your own houses water system then.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Kay Lancaster wrote:

And don't forget a backflow preventer.

Why?

In the US you don't need a back flow valve for water coming from a
hose bib, it already has a back flow valve from the main, the entire
residence is protected... back flow valves are required for automatic
irrigation systems because they are typically supplied directly from
the water main before the residential back flow valve. But not
knowing the codes where you live you may want to check... but water
from a hose bib I seriously doubt needs a backflow valve... you've
probably been using the hose bib to irrigate from since the house was
built

They are certainly required on hose bibbs where I live, on new construction. But
then again, most have no backflow valve on the water into the house.

On 21 Sep 2013 09:42:03 GMT, Kay Lancaster wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 17:18:48 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson wrote:
backflow preventer:

Why backflow devices are a good idea: http://www.abpa.org/originalsite/pnw-all.htm

"Bob F" wrote:
Brooklyn1 wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Kay Lancaster wrote:

And don't forget a backflow preventer.

Why?

In the US you don't need a back flow valve for water coming from a
hose bib, it already has a back flow valve from the main, the entire
residence is protected... back flow valves are required for automatic
irrigation systems because they are typically supplied directly from
the water main before the residential back flow valve. But not
knowing the codes where you live you may want to check... but water
from a hose bib I seriously doubt needs a backflow valve... you've
probably been using the hose bib to irrigate from since the house was
built

They are certainly required on hose bibbs where I live, on new construction.

Without saying where you live your statement is totally meaningless...
and it's hose *bibs*... "bibbs" are a type of lettuce.

But then again, most have no backflow valve on the water into the house.

Again, without saying where you live and stipulating the type of water
supply your statement is totally meaningless. In the US municipal
water companies have a check valve at each meter, so their system is
protected. But in the US many people have a private well (I do, I
actually have two) but local zoning code requires a check valve at the
point of entry to a residence, typically before the pressure tank (to
protect the well). The reason for an anti-siphon check valve on an
automatic irrigation system is to protect the residential water supply
because typically such a system is attached directly to the water main
entering the residence (directly after the meter), so as to draw from
the largest diameter pipe for maximum volume and pressure. A hose bib
is already protected the same as the spigot at your kitchen sink. The
only time a check valve may be necessary at a hose bib is if the
irrigation system attached to the hose bib is below ground, ie. buried
soaker hose, or directly on the ground, but unnecessary when using a
garden hose in the usual manner. Heating systems in the US with hot
water boilers are required by code to have a check valve at the
boiler's supply, because typically the system contains anti freeze.
Whether a check valve is required depends on usage, for example an
aquarium aeration compressor needs a check valve to protect the pump,
same as folks who have a swimming pool, and many other usages... but a
hose bib no more needs a check valve than your kitchen sink spigot.
Most folks who use soaker hoses do attach a check valve between the
bib and the soaker hose... most attach a timer, many timers do contain
a check valve, some will add fertilizer, some contain a pressure
regulator... a pressure regulator is a good idea for protecting the
integrity of the soaker hose... a sediment filter is recommended as
well to prevent the soaker hose pores from clogging over time... the
biggest detriment to saoker hoses is hard water, if one has hard water
I don't recommend soaker hoses.