In the zone 5 when a plant goes to seed in late summer or fall I need to know how best to get more plants to germinate from the seed.

Take coneflower for instance.

I would think it's best to gather the seeds (before the birds), store them over the winter and then spread the seed in the early Spring?

I've always been confused a bit about the process -- certainly seeds that fall to the ground in fall become useless because of the snow?, so it's really a matter of what seeds remain intact and dry enough to germinate in the Spring, if left on the plant? I guess what I'm trying to ask is that Spring planting beats Fall planting any day for areas that have cold winters? or not?

In article
mkr5000 writes:

Take coneflower for instance.

[snip]

I've always been confused a bit about the process -- certainly
seeds that fall to the ground in fall become useless because of
the snow?,

Can't say about coneflower. I'm in zone 6 (western Ohio), and
zinnia seeds dropped on the ground do not become useless, though
birds probably lower their numbers as the winter goes on. After 2
years of terrible results with inside starting, combined with robust
volunteers, I gave up on starting the zinnias in pots. I gathered
seed heads, dried and separated (as beat as I cound). Then scattered
the seeds around last frost. I think I had about a quart of seed
& chaff.

But I still have a dozen or so zinnias in a section that I did not
seed.

I also have some cosmos volunteers this year.

I gave up on trying to start alyssum years ago. I leave the dried
plant as shelter (and a marker) and wait in the spring, then thin
and transplant. I take a similar approach to dahlburg daisy.


so it's really a matter of what seeds remain intact and
dry enough to germinate in the Spring, if left on the plant? I
guess what I'm trying to ask is that Spring planting beats Fall
planting any day for areas that have cold winters? or not?

My take, with slightly milder winters, is that fall/spring doesn't
matter if you are planting the seeds. If they are on the surface,
then fall scattering gives critters (or Paleo hunter/gatherers)
longer to gather and eat them.

While weeding the garden a couple days ago, I found that last year's
tomato patch has tomatoes coming up. Better late than never, I
suppose. (Still pulled them out.)

--
Drew Lawson What would Brian Boitano do?

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:17:38 AM UTC-4, Drew Lawson wrote:
In article

mkr5000 writes:



Take coneflower for instance.



[snip]



I've always been confused a bit about the process -- certainly

seeds that fall to the ground in fall become useless because of

the snow?,



Can't say about coneflower. I'm in zone 6 (western Ohio), and

zinnia seeds dropped on the ground do not become useless, though

birds probably lower their numbers as the winter goes on. After 2

years of terrible results with inside starting, combined with robust

volunteers, I gave up on starting the zinnias in pots. I gathered

seed heads, dried and separated (as beat as I cound). Then scattered

the seeds around last frost. I think I had about a quart of seed

& chaff.



But I still have a dozen or so zinnias in a section that I did not

seed.



I also have some cosmos volunteers this year.



I gave up on trying to start alyssum years ago. I leave the dried

plant as shelter (and a marker) and wait in the spring, then thin

and transplant. I take a similar approach to dahlburg daisy.





so it's really a matter of what seeds remain intact and

dry enough to germinate in the Spring, if left on the plant? I

guess what I'm trying to ask is that Spring planting beats Fall

planting any day for areas that have cold winters? or not?



My take, with slightly milder winters, is that fall/spring doesn't

matter if you are planting the seeds. If they are on the surface,

then fall scattering gives critters (or Paleo hunter/gatherers)

longer to gather and eat them.



While weeding the garden a couple days ago, I found that last year's

tomato patch has tomatoes coming up. Better late than never, I

suppose. (Still pulled them out.)



--

Drew Lawson What would Brian Boitano do?

Ok Dave -- thanks. I have a ton of Cosmos come up every year and I don't touch them. I do however leave the plants alone till Spring when I mow them down and like I say they reseed like crazy. I'll try half and half with the coneflower, bring some seeds in and just scatter some seeds off the heads soon.

mkr5000 writes:

I've always been confused a bit about the process -- certainly
seeds that fall to the ground in fall become useless because of
the snow?,

Were that true I'd never have any weeds. I live in the northern
Catskills (lots of snow) and my wildflower meadow reseeds itself.
http://i62.tinypic.com/ivirn6.jpg

mkr5000 said:
In the zone 5 when a plant goes to seed in late summer or fall I need to
know how best to get more plants to germinate from the seed.


Depends. Some seeds won't germinate without experiencing winter
conditions. So you would have to recreate those conditions with any
seed you gather (a process called stratification).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratification_(botany)

Take coneflower for instance.

Echinacea doesn't need stratification, seeds need darkness and germination
temperature range is 70-75 F.

Rudbeckia needs some statification, then light and temprature of 70-75 F.
So you would surface sow these onto moist potting soil and refridgerate
for two weeks (or put the seeds into a bag with a source of moisture for
the same amoung to time, then surface sow).

Best reference I know of for raising flowers from seed:

/From Seed to Bloom/ by Eileen Powell.

http://www.amazon.com/From-Seed-To-B.../dp/0882662597
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Yes, swooping is bad."

email valid but not regularly monitored

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:19:33 AM UTC-4, Pat Kiewicz wrote:
mkr5000 said:

In the zone 5 when a plant goes to seed in late summer or fall I need to

know how best to get more plants to germinate from the seed.





Depends. Some seeds won't germinate without experiencing winter

conditions. So you would have to recreate those conditions with any

seed you gather (a process called stratification).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratification_(botany)



Take coneflower for instance.



Echinacea doesn't need stratification, seeds need darkness and germination

temperature range is 70-75 F.



Rudbeckia needs some statification, then light and temprature of 70-75 F.

So you would surface sow these onto moist potting soil and refridgerate

for two weeks (or put the seeds into a bag with a source of moisture for

the same amoung to time, then surface sow).



Best reference I know of for raising flowers from seed:



/From Seed to Bloom/ by Eileen Powell.



http://www.amazon.com/From-Seed-To-B.../dp/0882662597

--

Pat in Plymouth MI



"Yes, swooping is bad."



email valid but not regularly monitored


Thanks Pat -- now I get it.

Want to plant some coneflower, black eyed susan, cleome and some queen annes lace (native) for starters.

For seeds that don't need stratification (like coneflower) where is best place to store the seeds I gather? I've read both in a ziploc bag in refrig or a cool dark place in basement.

Basement idea sounds better to me. ?

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 07:25:37 -0700 (PDT), mkr5000
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 11:19:33 AM UTC-4, Pat Kiewicz wrote:
mkr5000 said:

In the zone 5 when a plant goes to seed in late summer or fall I need to

know how best to get more plants to germinate from the seed.





Depends. Some seeds won't germinate without experiencing winter

conditions. So you would have to recreate those conditions with any

seed you gather (a process called stratification).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratification_(botany)



Take coneflower for instance.



Echinacea doesn't need stratification, seeds need darkness and germination

temperature range is 70-75 F.



Rudbeckia needs some statification, then light and temprature of 70-75 F.

So you would surface sow these onto moist potting soil and refridgerate

for two weeks (or put the seeds into a bag with a source of moisture for

the same amoung to time, then surface sow).



Best reference I know of for raising flowers from seed:



/From Seed to Bloom/ by Eileen Powell.



http://www.amazon.com/From-Seed-To-B.../dp/0882662597

--

Pat in Plymouth MI



"Yes, swooping is bad."



email valid but not regularly monitored


Thanks Pat -- now I get it.

Want to plant some coneflower, black eyed susan, cleome and some queen annes lace (native) for starters.

For seeds that don't need stratification (like coneflower) where is best place to store the seeds I gather? I've read both in a ziploc bag in refrig or a cool dark place in basement.

Basement idea sounds better to me. ?

Basements can be dank and contain seed eating insects and rodents,
fridge is safer. However all those seeds can be planted late fall...
deer and rabbits wont eat susans and lace but they will eat cones.

On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:03:35 -0700 (PDT), mkr5000
wrote:

In the zone 5 when a plant goes to seed in late summer or fall I need to know how best to get more plants to germinate from the seed.

Take coneflower for instance.

I would think it's best to gather the seeds (before the birds), store them over the winter and then spread the seed in the early Spring?

I've always been confused a bit about the process -- certainly seeds that fall to the ground in fall become useless because of the snow?, so it's really a matter of what seeds remain intact and dry enough to germinate in the Spring, if left on the plant? I guess what I'm trying to ask is that Spring planting beats Fall planting any day for areas that have cold winters? or not?

I'll bet the real answer is "maybe and sometimes" together. It will
always depend a lot on the species and cultivar involved.

?-)

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