I put down landscaping cloth and mulch under our purple-
leaved plum and started a shade garden. I've cut fair-sized
holes in the cloth where I've put plants in, but am wondering
how far out to cut the cloth away from plants that I want to
spread, like hostas and ostrich fern. Any advice? Yes, I do
hope one day to remove most if not all of the cloth, leaving
perhaps some narrow paths between plants so I can get in and
clean up.

If you planned on removing the cloth one day, why did you put it in to
begin with? I'd remove it, mulch it well and watch your plants
spread. In shade the weeds shouldn't be too much of a problem anyway,
especially with a good layer of mulch. The only time I use fabric is
if I want to kill off some grass and even then I use 2 to 3 layers
because it'd find it's way thru.

On Sat, 24 May 2003 11:56:32 -0400, spampot wrote:

I put down landscaping cloth and mulch under our purple-
leaved plum and started a shade garden. I've cut fair-sized
holes in the cloth where I've put plants in, but am wondering
how far out to cut the cloth away from plants that I want to
spread, like hostas and ostrich fern. Any advice? Yes, I do
hope one day to remove most if not all of the cloth, leaving
perhaps some narrow paths between plants so I can get in and
clean up.

Because I wanted to kill off the grass under the tree first.

Kevin Miller wrote:
If you planned on removing the cloth one day, why did you put it in to
begin with? I'd remove it, mulch it well and watch your plants
spread. In shade the weeds shouldn't be too much of a problem anyway,
especially with a good layer of mulch. The only time I use fabric is
if I want to kill off some grass and even then I use 2 to 3 layers
because it'd find it's way thru.

On Sat, 24 May 2003 11:56:32 -0400, spampot wrote:


I put down landscaping cloth and mulch under our purple-
leaved plum and started a shade garden. I've cut fair-sized
holes in the cloth where I've put plants in, but am wondering
how far out to cut the cloth away from plants that I want to
spread, like hostas and ostrich fern. Any advice? Yes, I do
hope one day to remove most if not all of the cloth, leaving
perhaps some narrow paths between plants so I can get in and
clean up.

IME, landscaping fabric is not very effective for killing lawn, it's not
even very effective on the soil to control weeds. Is the lawn totally dead
underneath or did you just lay the cloth and immediately start planting? If
so, you will shortly have grasses coming up through the planting holes and
strangling your desireable plants. If the lawn is dead and you have removed
it, mulching is really a far better way to go. Effectively retards weed
growth, conserves soil moisture and allows the plants to spread naturally.

pam - gardengal


spampot wrote:

Because I wanted to kill off the grass under the tree first.

Kevin Miller wrote:
If you planned on removing the cloth one day, why did you put it in to
begin with? I'd remove it, mulch it well and watch your plants
spread. In shade the weeds shouldn't be too much of a problem anyway,
especially with a good layer of mulch. The only time I use fabric is
if I want to kill off some grass and even then I use 2 to 3 layers
because it'd find it's way thru.

On Sat, 24 May 2003 11:56:32 -0400, spampot wrote:


I put down landscaping cloth and mulch under our purple-
leaved plum and started a shade garden. I've cut fair-sized
holes in the cloth where I've put plants in, but am wondering
how far out to cut the cloth away from plants that I want to
spread, like hostas and ostrich fern. Any advice? Yes, I do
hope one day to remove most if not all of the cloth, leaving
perhaps some narrow paths between plants so I can get in and
clean up.

Collect some newspaper and lay them THICK... it'll work alot better
and decompose over time... mow low first

On Sun, 25 May 2003 08:31:47 -0400, spampot wrote:

Because I wanted to kill off the grass under the tree first.

Kevin Miller wrote:
If you planned on removing the cloth one day, why did you put it in to
begin with? I'd remove it, mulch it well and watch your plants
spread. In shade the weeds shouldn't be too much of a problem anyway,
especially with a good layer of mulch. The only time I use fabric is
if I want to kill off some grass and even then I use 2 to 3 layers
because it'd find it's way thru.

On Sat, 24 May 2003 11:56:32 -0400, spampot wrote:


I put down landscaping cloth and mulch under our purple-
leaved plum and started a shade garden. I've cut fair-sized
holes in the cloth where I've put plants in, but am wondering
how far out to cut the cloth away from plants that I want to
spread, like hostas and ostrich fern. Any advice? Yes, I do
hope one day to remove most if not all of the cloth, leaving
perhaps some narrow paths between plants so I can get in and
clean up.

Thanks, Pam, that's very interesting. Some of the lawn is dead,
but some of it is just covered up. When I do uncover spots
that have grass clumps, I do dig them out, so I figure I'm
making some progress toward removing everything I don't want
there. So...how is it that mulch will retard weeds when mulch
on top of landscaping cloth won't? Or did I misread what you said?

Pam wrote:
IME, landscaping fabric is not very effective for killing lawn, it's not
even very effective on the soil to control weeds. Is the lawn totally dead
underneath or did you just lay the cloth and immediately start planting? If
so, you will shortly have grasses coming up through the planting holes and
strangling your desireable plants. If the lawn is dead and you have removed
it, mulching is really a far better way to go. Effectively retards weed
growth, conserves soil moisture and allows the plants to spread naturally.

pam - gardengal


spampot wrote:


Because I wanted to kill off the grass under the tree first.

Kevin Miller wrote:

If you planned on removing the cloth one day, why did you put it in to
begin with? I'd remove it, mulch it well and watch your plants
spread. In shade the weeds shouldn't be too much of a problem anyway,
especially with a good layer of mulch. The only time I use fabric is
if I want to kill off some grass and even then I use 2 to 3 layers
because it'd find it's way thru.

On Sat, 24 May 2003 11:56:32 -0400, spampot wrote:



I put down landscaping cloth and mulch under our purple-
leaved plum and started a shade garden. I've cut fair-sized
holes in the cloth where I've put plants in, but am wondering
how far out to cut the cloth away from plants that I want to
spread, like hostas and ostrich fern. Any advice? Yes, I do
hope one day to remove most if not all of the cloth, leaving
perhaps some narrow paths between plants so I can get in and
clean up.

spampot wrote:

Thanks, Pam, that's very interesting. Some of the lawn is dead,
but some of it is just covered up. When I do uncover spots
that have grass clumps, I do dig them out, so I figure I'm
making some progress toward removing everything I don't want
there. So...how is it that mulch will retard weeds when mulch
on top of landscaping cloth won't? Or did I misread what you said?

Not exactly....:-)) For mulch to be effective weed control, the worst weeds need
to be removed or at least lopped off at the roots. Then a good thick layer of
mulch (3 inches minimum) will prevent much else from growing through, with a few
notable exceptions like horsetail, bindweed and blackberries. Any weed seeds that
germinate on the mulch are easily removed. Landscape fabric applied with mulch
will work pretty much the same way, however the tough weeds (like those
mentioned) manage to grow through anyway and the fabric just makes it that much
harder to remove them. And many folks tend to just lay the fabric over the top of
existing weeds without removal - that IMO is just more work in the long run.

pam - gardengal

Pam wrote:

spampot wrote:


Thanks, Pam, that's very interesting. Some of the lawn is dead,
but some of it is just covered up. When I do uncover spots
that have grass clumps, I do dig them out, so I figure I'm
making some progress toward removing everything I don't want
there. So...how is it that mulch will retard weeds when mulch
on top of landscaping cloth won't? Or did I misread what you said?


Not exactly....:-)) For mulch to be effective weed control, the worst weeds need
to be removed or at least lopped off at the roots. Then a good thick layer of
mulch (3 inches minimum) will prevent much else from growing through, with a few
notable exceptions like horsetail, bindweed and blackberries. Any weed seeds that
germinate on the mulch are easily removed. Landscape fabric applied with mulch
will work pretty much the same way, however the tough weeds (like those
mentioned) manage to grow through anyway and the fabric just makes it that much
harder to remove them. And many folks tend to just lay the fabric over the top of
existing weeds without removal - that IMO is just more work in the long run.

pam - gardengal


Thank you. That's very clear. I actually have more grass
than weeds under the tree, and the weeds are just chickweed
which are rather easy to pull up. I'm digging the grass
clumps out of the parts that I didn't manage to Roundup
before laying down the cloth and mulch, so I suppose
everything will work out fine in the end. Sure is a lot of
work, though; I'll spend $200 and hours putting stuff under
that tree, stand back, and it's hardly noticeable!

Forget the landscape cloth and use layers of newspapers instead. Use 5 or 6
layers and overlap them well. You can keep a hose handy and wet them down
to keep from blowing around as you spread the mulch. Newspapers work very
well at killing off all but the most persistent kinds of grass and weeds,
and last surprising long under the mulch, but eventually break down and add
to the tilth of the soil. You can easily add plants to your bed after
mulching, and you can't beat the price. I"ve used them both to start new
planting beds, and to layer over old mulch before adding new, and it works
very well.

Sue

Zone 6, Southcentral PA


"spampot" wrote in message
Thank you. That's very clear. I actually have more grass
than weeds under the tree, and the weeds are just chickweed
which are rather easy to pull up. I'm digging the grass
clumps out of the parts that I didn't manage to Roundup
before laying down the cloth and mulch, so I suppose
everything will work out fine in the end. Sure is a lot of
work, though; I'll spend $200 and hours putting stuff under
that tree, stand back, and it's hardly noticeable!