"Tina Gibson" wrote in
news:mmbpb.260501$9l5.11491@pd7tw2no:

It is not silly - in Canada (and I am sure in the northern US) the
brown bat is a very well known mosquito catcher. Like most mammals -
each species or subspecies has it's own niche. Maybe the mexican free
tailed bat eats mostly moths but there are bats that eat a LOT of
mosquitos - just gotta find the right ones. Even the ones who don't
if they're eating that many insects a night its worth having a few.
BTW puple martins are excellent mosquito catchers too!! Worth putting
in a purple martin house if you ar ein mosquito country - which I
definitely am in.
The bat population in Northwestern ontario has been drastically
reduced in the last 30 yrs by deforestation and there is currently a
move to try and repopulate.
Tina
Check out this link
http://www.cws-scf.ec.gc.ca/hww-fap/...cies=51&lang=e

I didn't realize they had bats in Canada, but it makes sense that they
would eat mosquitoes there (for lack of anything else to eat). One of my
former co-workers told me about a trip to Banf (sp?) and she said the
skeeter population there was worse than Lousiana. Too bad the original
poster doesn't say where the announcement is for. I still think it's
going to be a waste of time if they're doing this in a temperate climate.
The fact that they're going with so many speciies, leads me to think they
don't know quite what they're doing (thus 'experiment').

-- ST

Man, I didn't think posting this article would engender such debate -- it
was meant to show that for once local government was actually considering
something other than just spraying chemicals that kill other things and wear
off too quick to make a big enough impact.

From what I've read, no formal studies have really been conducted to
determine just how effective bats, purple martins, swallows, and other such
predators are in controlling local mosquito populations. It's certainly
worth the try and the benefits are substantial.

I'll be attempting a combination of efforts on my own property to control
the buggers next year, including a bathouse, bird houses (purple martin
among them), mantids, small ponds (to bring larvae and fishes together in
union Grin), and dragonflies. We also have a Mosquito Deleto running.
I'm hoping that by encouraging all of these factors we can put a dent in the
population.

For those interested, this article/story is from the Cincinnati, Ohio area.

James

************************************************** **************
Bats Brought In To Battle Mosquitos
LAST UPDATE: 10/31/2003 10:51:04 PM

The Anderson Park District is taking unusual measures in the fight against
West Nile. It is bringing in bats, in hopes the winged creatures will
gobble
up mosquitos, which are known to carry the virus. This comes after a
mosquito with West Nile was found over the summer in Kellogg Park, leading
the District to cancel their Haunted Hike this year.

Puddles in the park were treated with chemical dunks to kill larvae, and
mosquito magnets were also used to get rid of the adult insects. Seven bat
houses, made by local boy scouts, have been put up in the park. Each one
housing 30 bats, of 11 different species. Park District officials say if
the
experiment works, more bat houses will be put up in other parks next fall.

One bat can eat 500 of the insects in just one hour. But there's no need
to
be afraid. Park officials say that bats' reputation of sucking blood and
flying into human hair are simply myths. They only fly close to people if
their exceptional radar and hearing show a bug nearby to eat.

Just be careful where you put your bathouse should you decide to employ one.
You might end up with another problem:
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopE...s/bathouse.htm
sed5555

Idiots will always die. It is natural selection working at its finest.
"animaux" wrote in message
news
There have been 10 confirmed cases of rabies due to some idiot picking up
a sick
bat in about a hundred years in the United States.

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 16:45:34 -0500, "BT" opined:

What a great idea! Exchange the chance of getting west nile with the
chance of
catching rabies! Boy aren't politicians clever!
http://tinyurl.com/tddo

Just breed dragonflies...they are the ones eating all the mosquitoes!

BT


"JNJ" wrote in message
.. .
(This I have to admit is surprisingly pleasant to hear when considering
just
how bass ackwards most people here are. Hopefully they DO realize the
bats
are migrating OUT of the area for the cold season. JNJ)

************************************************** **************
Bats Brought In To Battle Mosquitos
LAST UPDATE: 10/31/2003 10:51:04 PM

The Anderson Park District is taking unusual measures in the fight
against
West Nile. It is bringing in bats, in hopes the winged creatures will
gobble
up mosquitos, which are known to carry the virus. This comes after a
mosquito with West Nile was found over the summer in Kellogg Park,
leading
the District to cancel their Haunted Hike this year.

Puddles in the park were treated with chemical dunks to kill larvae,
and
mosquito magnets were also used to get rid of the adult insects. Seven
bat
houses, made by local boy scouts, have been put up in the park. Each
one
housing 30 bats, of 11 different species. Park District officials say
if the
experiment works, more bat houses will be put up in other parks next
fall.

One bat can eat 500 of the insects in just one hour. But there's no
need to
be afraid. Park officials say that bats' reputation of sucking blood
and
flying into human hair are simply myths. They only fly close to people
if
their exceptional radar and hearing show a bug nearby to eat.

I said most insects are gone to hide in the bush - and I obviously know that
moths are not in that group. I stand by my statement. Again I am speaking of
in Canada and anywhere else that temps drop at night.
Most of the flying insects - soft bodied disappear - they go into the bush
to keep warm as they do not have the homoeostatic temp controls that warm
blooded mammals have.
Tina

"animaux" wrote in message
...
Gone to hide in the bush for the night? Most moths are night flying
insects.
I'm happy your area is trying to use ecology for a situation, but it
serves no
purpose to give misinformation. Bats do NOT eat mosquitoes out of the air
like
that. Not at the rate you seem to think.

The bats which night roost on our property are continuously eating moths,
and
beetles by the street light. I watch them nightly. Many bats have not
left the
area for their migration to Mexico. Many of the males stay all winter.
Bats do
most of their eating at very high elevations...where it would be rare to
find a
mosquito.


On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:45:05 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

Here we are trying to encourage all of these things but bats as well. I
love
them - they come out a dusk when the birds are settling down and you can
watch them swooping around eating the mosquitos!! You know it's
mosquitos
or the occasional moth depending on the time of year, because most of
the
other flying insects are gone to hide in the bush for the night. The

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
I would have thought that trying to encourage Swallows , Swifts and
House
Martins would be of more use.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

I will concede that I do not know about the bats in your area - maybe in the
US and Mexico. But I do know about ones in mine. Here the bats do help with
mosquito control, I would not say it is going to put a dent in the
population.
Little brown bats which live where I am eat A LOT of mosquitos. I would
bring them in just as I attract lady bugs into my garden as pest control.

There are not a lot of juried studies out there. Certainly not enough of
different bat populations on different mosquito populations. I've seen the
web sites you referred to in the past. I have seen them all cite the same
org saying that there is not anecdotal evidence that bats, etcc, etc control
the mosquito pops. I haven ot seen a journeled published article saying that
they undesputably don't.
I am not deluded, I am hopeful. I am hopeful that they will put money into
researching biological controls and fearful that it will just be easier to
start spraying - which many many cities have already started doing. We're
never going to combat mosquitos - if we could there would be no malaria.
Misinformation goes both ways - just as there is not hard scientific
evidence that bats and martens don't control mosquito populations, there is
not hard evidence that they have no affect. When I see articles publised
citing real population ecology studies that say bats and martens definitely
have no effect - maybe I will stop being "deluded".

I will call Austin a city. I am well travelled and very well educated in the
sciences (Biology and chemistry). I have not been there but my husband has.
It is a city. Compared to the places I spend my time where there are NO
people and lots of wildlife and still untouched forest, it is a city.

You may have the largest population of bats, but here the population of some
of our bats has dwindled due to deforestation. Sweeping generalisations
regarding populations of genera that are widely diverse and live in totally
different ecological niches lead to misinformation.
Tina

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:53:09 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

Did you actually read the info on the site? And I have 90 acres of
property
with a beaver pond and swamp area - I am not going to control the
mosquito
larvae in those areas. I am not talking about city populations of bats
dear.

Dear, this is the largest (did you read that part) largest population of
bats in
an urban setting, directly above the water, under a bridge, in the WORLD.
There
are millions and millions of bats in this part of Texas. If you want to
call
Austin a city, fine. Obviously you've never been here.

I am talking about natural forested areas - or what is left of them. If a
National Park wants to increase the population of bats, martens or
swallows
what is the big deal to you?

It's no big deal to me. It is misleading to think bats, swallows, martins
or
anything like it will lower the mosquito rate, because it is
misinformation.

Are you an ecologist specialising in Bats? or mosquito populations? On
what
basis are you refuting this? The site you posted only spoke of Mexican
bats
that inhabit southern areas. Do you have other published references that
have disproven bat population density has no affect on mosquito
populations?

Taken from http://www.mosquito.org/info.php

Mosquito Control

Mosquito control can be divided into two areas of responsibility:
individual and
public. Most often it's performed following the Integrated Mosquito
Management
(IMM) concept. IMM is based on ecological, economic and social criteria
and
integrates multidisciplinary methodologies into pest management strategies
that
are practical and effective to protect public health and the environment
and
improve the quality of life. IMM strategies are employed in concert with
insecticide. These include source reduction, which incorporates physical
control
(digging ditches and ponds in the target marsh) and biological control
[placing
live mosquito fish ( Gambusia ) in the ditches and ponds to eat mosquito
larvae]. Other non-chemical control methods include invertebrate
predators,
parasites and diseases to control mosquito larvae. Adult mosquito
biological
control by means of birds, bats, dragonflies and frogs has been employed
by
various agencies. However, supportive data is anecdotal and there is no
documented study to show that bats, purple martins, or other predators
consume
enough adult mosquitoes to be effective control agents.

And yes, I am quite well read about bats, I'm a Master Naturalist and live
in a
state in the US which has more bats than anywhere else in the country.
Not just
the state, I live two miles east of one of the largest colonies known in
the US.

But, hey, continue to delude.

Ooh - never would've put one anywhere near my house anyways, but that is
good to know. Bat guano is also dangerous
http://www.cdc.gov/travel/diseases/histoplasmosis.htm.

"Sed5555" wrote in message
...
Just be careful where you put your bathouse should you decide to employ
one.
You might end up with another problem:
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopE...s/bathouse.htm
sed5555

My apologies - I did put words in your mouth. I am glad that where I live
the risk of both is extremely small. We ahve to worry more about rabid
stinky skunks!!

"BT" wrote in message
...
"Tina Gibson" wrote in message
news:vjfpb.262095$pl3.30565@pd7tw3no...
I think that there is a SLIGHTLY larger chance of being bit by a
mosquito
than a bat. From where I sit I get hundreds of mosquito bites a year -
thousands over a life time. I've never been bitten by a bat - and have
seen
many. My animals have not been bitten by them either.


Well OF COURSE there is a SLIGHTLY larger chance of being bit by a
mosquito!
But if you would read what I wrote instead of putting words into my
mouth...I
never mentioned the *chance of getting bit*. As you yourself note, you
can get
hundreds of mosquito bites and yet never contract west nile.


http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol9no2/02-0083.htm
excerpt:"Bites by rabid dogs are the source of 35,000-50,000 human rabies
deaths
each year globally, yet most human rabies deaths in the United States are
attributed to unrecognized exposures to rabid bats."

Emergence of Bat-associated Rabies in Humans in the United States:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/emergplan/box09.htm

http://www.emedicine.com/ped/byname/rabies.htm


BT




Of course we could instead spray all the swampland with larvacide and
spray
the bush with DEET.
Personally if between bats and martens and swallows and dragonflies, not
to
mention other mosquito predators, we even decrease the mosquito
population
around myself by 5% - I will be happier than spraying or destroying
wetlands
as a control!!!
BTW all of the research that I have so far seen on bats or martens not
being
a good control are minimal and not enought to draw a final conclusion
on!
The studies will certainly be flying now so we shall see results in the
next
5 yrs.



"BT" wrote in message
...
What a great idea! Exchange the chance of getting west nile with the
chance of
catching rabies! Boy aren't politicians clever!
http://tinyurl.com/tddo

Just breed dragonflies...they are the ones eating all the mosquitoes!

BT


"JNJ" wrote in message
...
(This I have to admit is surprisingly pleasant to hear when
considering
just
how bass ackwards most people here are. Hopefully they DO realize
the
bats
are migrating OUT of the area for the cold season. JNJ)

************************************************** **************
Bats Brought In To Battle Mosquitos
LAST UPDATE: 10/31/2003 10:51:04 PM

The Anderson Park District is taking unusual measures in the fight
against
West Nile. It is bringing in bats, in hopes the winged creatures
will
gobble
up mosquitos, which are known to carry the virus. This comes after a
mosquito with West Nile was found over the summer in Kellogg Park,
leading
the District to cancel their Haunted Hike this year.

Puddles in the park were treated with chemical dunks to kill larvae,
and
mosquito magnets were also used to get rid of the adult insects.
Seven
bat
houses, made by local boy scouts, have been put up in the park. Each
one
housing 30 bats, of 11 different species. Park District officials
say if
the
experiment works, more bat houses will be put up in other parks next
fall.

One bat can eat 500 of the insects in just one hour. But there's no
need
to
be afraid. Park officials say that bats' reputation of sucking blood
and
flying into human hair are simply myths. They only fly close to
people
if
their exceptional radar and hearing show a bug nearby to eat.

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 03:45:51 GMT, "JNJ" opined:

Man, I didn't think posting this article would engender such debate -- it
was meant to show that for once local government was actually considering
something other than just spraying chemicals that kill other things and wear
off too quick to make a big enough impact.

Yes, and that has been honored as being a good thing to do. However, it is also
good to point out they possibly won't get the results they are seeking. None of
what I said was meant with mean spirit. Just factual.

From what I've read, no formal studies have really been conducted to
determine just how effective bats, purple martins, swallows, and other such
predators are in controlling local mosquito populations. It's certainly
worth the try and the benefits are substantial.

The benefits are not substantial. That's the point. Bats do not eat as many
mosquitoes as they are rumored to eat. You can't say it's substantial if it's
not so.

I'll be attempting a combination of efforts on my own property to control
the buggers next year, including a bathouse, bird houses (purple martin
among them), mantids, small ponds (to bring larvae and fishes together in
union Grin), and dragonflies. We also have a Mosquito Deleto running.
I'm hoping that by encouraging all of these factors we can put a dent in the
population.

For those interested, this article/story is from the Cincinnati, Ohio area.

James

************************************************** **************
Bats Brought In To Battle Mosquitos
LAST UPDATE: 10/31/2003 10:51:04 PM

The Anderson Park District is taking unusual measures in the fight against
West Nile. It is bringing in bats, in hopes the winged creatures will
gobble
up mosquitos, which are known to carry the virus. This comes after a
mosquito with West Nile was found over the summer in Kellogg Park, leading
the District to cancel their Haunted Hike this year.

Puddles in the park were treated with chemical dunks to kill larvae, and
mosquito magnets were also used to get rid of the adult insects. Seven bat
houses, made by local boy scouts, have been put up in the park. Each one
housing 30 bats, of 11 different species. Park District officials say if
the
experiment works, more bat houses will be put up in other parks next fall.

One bat can eat 500 of the insects in just one hour. But there's no need
to
be afraid. Park officials say that bats' reputation of sucking blood and
flying into human hair are simply myths. They only fly close to people if
their exceptional radar and hearing show a bug nearby to eat.

Insects are not mammals, but you know that. In cold climates there aren't
insects which remain alive through the winter. I don't know where in Canada you
are, but doesn't it get cold in most of the country in winter?

They insects which survive all winter in Texas USDA Zone 8b are primarily
beneficial. Green lacewings are everywhere all winter till the summer heat
arrives. Some moths. I've never once seen a mosquito in winter.

Are you on the Pacific side in a warm spot? I don't know much about Canada
being warm in winter.

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:06:31 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

I said most insects are gone to hide in the bush - and I obviously know that
moths are not in that group. I stand by my statement. Again I am speaking of
in Canada and anywhere else that temps drop at night.
Most of the flying insects - soft bodied disappear - they go into the bush
to keep warm as they do not have the homoeostatic temp controls that warm
blooded mammals have.
Tina

"animaux" wrote in message
.. .
Gone to hide in the bush for the night? Most moths are night flying
insects.
I'm happy your area is trying to use ecology for a situation, but it
serves no
purpose to give misinformation. Bats do NOT eat mosquitoes out of the air
like
that. Not at the rate you seem to think.

The bats which night roost on our property are continuously eating moths,
and
beetles by the street light. I watch them nightly. Many bats have not
left the
area for their migration to Mexico. Many of the males stay all winter.
Bats do
most of their eating at very high elevations...where it would be rare to
find a
mosquito.


On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:45:05 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

Here we are trying to encourage all of these things but bats as well. I
love
them - they come out a dusk when the birds are settling down and you can
watch them swooping around eating the mosquitos!! You know it's
mosquitos
or the occasional moth depending on the time of year, because most of
the
other flying insects are gone to hide in the bush for the night. The

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
I would have thought that trying to encourage Swallows , Swifts and
House
Martins would be of more use.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

Five minutes in either direction from dead center of town in Austin is open
country in the blackland prairie, hill country, Edwards Plateau, tall grass
prairie. Four regions meet directly in the center of town. The population is
half a million, with a lot of those being students at one or more of the major
Universities.

This is a rural city.

Purple martins (with an i) have not made any difference in population. There
have been studies and the most viable biological control is to remove habitat
and where impossible, to treat with Bt-Israelensis aka mosquito dunks. The
other viable, biological control is mosquito larvae eating fish.

I truly hope the bats help...West Nile and all. I have a parrot and I can't
bring her outside because of this deadly disease. We have a bat house which
probably has about 250 bats in it. No dent in mosquitoes.


On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:08:32 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

I will concede that I do not know about the bats in your area - maybe in the
US and Mexico. But I do know about ones in mine. Here the bats do help with
mosquito control, I would not say it is going to put a dent in the
population.
Little brown bats which live where I am eat A LOT of mosquitos. I would
bring them in just as I attract lady bugs into my garden as pest control.

There are not a lot of juried studies out there. Certainly not enough of
different bat populations on different mosquito populations. I've seen the
web sites you referred to in the past. I have seen them all cite the same
org saying that there is not anecdotal evidence that bats, etcc, etc control
the mosquito pops. I haven ot seen a journeled published article saying that
they undesputably don't.
I am not deluded, I am hopeful. I am hopeful that they will put money into
researching biological controls and fearful that it will just be easier to
start spraying - which many many cities have already started doing. We're
never going to combat mosquitos - if we could there would be no malaria.
Misinformation goes both ways - just as there is not hard scientific
evidence that bats and martens don't control mosquito populations, there is
not hard evidence that they have no affect. When I see articles publised
citing real population ecology studies that say bats and martens definitely
have no effect - maybe I will stop being "deluded".

I will call Austin a city. I am well travelled and very well educated in the
sciences (Biology and chemistry). I have not been there but my husband has.
It is a city. Compared to the places I spend my time where there are NO
people and lots of wildlife and still untouched forest, it is a city.

You may have the largest population of bats, but here the population of some
of our bats has dwindled due to deforestation. Sweeping generalisations
regarding populations of genera that are widely diverse and live in totally
different ecological niches lead to misinformation.
Tina

"animaux" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:53:09 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

Did you actually read the info on the site? And I have 90 acres of
property
with a beaver pond and swamp area - I am not going to control the
mosquito
larvae in those areas. I am not talking about city populations of bats
dear.

Dear, this is the largest (did you read that part) largest population of
bats in
an urban setting, directly above the water, under a bridge, in the WORLD.
There
are millions and millions of bats in this part of Texas. If you want to
call
Austin a city, fine. Obviously you've never been here.

I am talking about natural forested areas - or what is left of them. If a
National Park wants to increase the population of bats, martens or
swallows
what is the big deal to you?

It's no big deal to me. It is misleading to think bats, swallows, martins
or
anything like it will lower the mosquito rate, because it is
misinformation.

Are you an ecologist specialising in Bats? or mosquito populations? On
what
basis are you refuting this? The site you posted only spoke of Mexican
bats
that inhabit southern areas. Do you have other published references that
have disproven bat population density has no affect on mosquito
populations?

Taken from http://www.mosquito.org/info.php

Mosquito Control

Mosquito control can be divided into two areas of responsibility:
individual and
public. Most often it's performed following the Integrated Mosquito
Management
(IMM) concept. IMM is based on ecological, economic and social criteria
and
integrates multidisciplinary methodologies into pest management strategies
that
are practical and effective to protect public health and the environment
and
improve the quality of life. IMM strategies are employed in concert with
insecticide. These include source reduction, which incorporates physical
control
(digging ditches and ponds in the target marsh) and biological control
[placing
live mosquito fish ( Gambusia ) in the ditches and ponds to eat mosquito
larvae]. Other non-chemical control methods include invertebrate
predators,
parasites and diseases to control mosquito larvae. Adult mosquito
biological
control by means of birds, bats, dragonflies and frogs has been employed
by
various agencies. However, supportive data is anecdotal and there is no
documented study to show that bats, purple martins, or other predators
consume
enough adult mosquitoes to be effective control agents.

And yes, I am quite well read about bats, I'm a Master Naturalist and live
in a
state in the US which has more bats than anywhere else in the country.
Not just
the state, I live two miles east of one of the largest colonies known in
the US.

But, hey, continue to delude.

If you want to attract bats faster to a bat house, hand a sock filled with guano
near it. That's what we did. Apparently the Eagle Scouts and Boy Scouts did
this experiment and it works.

Every winter when most of the bats migrate back to Mexico I go with a mask and
shovel up a lot of guano from under the bridge where they dwell. I throw it in
the compost pile. Of course I wear gloves, hat and a mask so not to breath the
guano dust. I've seen a small five pound bag of guano sell for 8 dollars. I
get tons of the stuff for free.

Many municipalities are now building bridges with similar design as those in
Texas which have given the bats habitat. They are doing this all over the
country. Bats are extremely beneficial and I hope it works the way you'd like
it to.

Victoria


On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:15:38 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

Ooh - never would've put one anywhere near my house anyways, but that is
good to know. Bat guano is also dangerous
http://www.cdc.gov/travel/diseases/histoplasmosis.htm.

"Sed5555" wrote in message
...
Just be careful where you put your bathouse should you decide to employ
one.
You might end up with another problem:
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopE...s/bathouse.htm
sed5555

I've heard guano makes wonderful compost. An anthro prof I once had did a
lot of excavation in Baja - found burials in caves. First they had to send
in the guano cleaners!! He went on and on about archeologists who had gotten
very sick from excavating cave burials in the past. This always sticks in my
head.

I'm not really putting up bat houses this year thinking they're going to
irradicate the mosq pop. This just ain;t going to happen. I would just like
to see us right some of the wrongs we have done by cutting down so many of
their breeding/summer areas.
Tina

"animaux" wrote in message
...
If you want to attract bats faster to a bat house, hand a sock filled with
guano
near it. That's what we did. Apparently the Eagle Scouts and Boy Scouts
did
this experiment and it works.

Every winter when most of the bats migrate back to Mexico I go with a mask
and
shovel up a lot of guano from under the bridge where they dwell. I throw
it in
the compost pile. Of course I wear gloves, hat and a mask so not to
breath the
guano dust. I've seen a small five pound bag of guano sell for 8 dollars.
I
get tons of the stuff for free.

Many municipalities are now building bridges with similar design as those
in
Texas which have given the bats habitat. They are doing this all over the
country. Bats are extremely beneficial and I hope it works the way you'd
like
it to.

Victoria


On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:15:38 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

Ooh - never would've put one anywhere near my house anyways, but that is
good to know. Bat guano is also dangerous
http://www.cdc.gov/travel/diseases/histoplasmosis.htm.

"Sed5555" wrote in message
...
Just be careful where you put your bathouse should you decide to employ
one.
You might end up with another problem:
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopE...s/bathouse.htm
sed5555

Too bad about your parrot - sad when birds have to be restricted so much. I
used to have a lot of cockatiels flying around my house. Never had a parrot,
always wanted one. Don't hink the cats would like it too much though.
So far we are lucky here. The species of mosq that carries west nile is very
low in pop here. So far the entymologists in the area that are studying it
diligently now do not believe that we are in an area that the virus can run
its course. We've had a few dead birds but they believe thje virus was
contracted in Southern ONtario. Of course with global warming it is only a
matter of time.

"animaux" wrote in message
news
Five minutes in either direction from dead center of town in Austin is
open
country in the blackland prairie, hill country, Edwards Plateau, tall
grass
prairie. Four regions meet directly in the center of town. The
population is
half a million, with a lot of those being students at one or more of the
major
Universities.

This is a rural city.

Purple martins (with an i) have not made any difference in population.
There
have been studies and the most viable biological control is to remove
habitat
and where impossible, to treat with Bt-Israelensis aka mosquito dunks.
The
other viable, biological control is mosquito larvae eating fish.

I truly hope the bats help...West Nile and all. I have a parrot and I
can't
bring her outside because of this deadly disease. We have a bat house
which
probably has about 250 bats in it. No dent in mosquitoes.


On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:08:32 GMT, "Tina Gibson" opined:

I will concede that I do not know about the bats in your area - maybe in
the
US and Mexico. But I do know about ones in mine. Here the bats do help
with
mosquito control, I would not say it is going to put a dent in the
population.
Little brown bats which live where I am eat A LOT of mosquitos. I would
bring them in just as I attract lady bugs into my garden as pest control.

There are not a lot of juried studies out there. Certainly not enough of
different bat populations on different mosquito populations. I've seen
the
web sites you referred to in the past. I have seen them all cite the same
org saying that there is not anecdotal evidence that bats, etcc, etc
control
the mosquito pops. I haven ot seen a journeled published article saying
that
they undesputably don't.
I am not deluded, I am hopeful. I am hopeful that they will put money
into
researching biological controls and fearful that it will just be easier
to
start spraying - which many many cities have already started doing. We're
never going to combat mosquitos - if we could there would be no malaria.
Misinformation goes both ways - just as there is not hard scientific
evidence that bats and martens don't control mosquito populations, there
is
not hard evidence that they have no affect. When I see articles publised
citing real population ecology studies that say bats and martens
definitely
have no effect - maybe I will stop being "deluded".

I will call Austin a city. I am well travelled and very well educated in
the
sciences (Biology and chemistry). I have not been there but my husband
has.
It is a city. Compared to the places I spend my time where there are NO
people and lots of wildlife and still untouched forest, it is a city.

You may have the largest population of bats, but here the population of
some
of our bats has dwindled due to deforestation. Sweeping generalisations
regarding populations of genera that are widely diverse and live in
totally
different ecological niches lead to misinformation.
Tina

"animaux" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:53:09 GMT, "Tina Gibson"
opined:

Did you actually read the info on the site? And I have 90 acres of
property
with a beaver pond and swamp area - I am not going to control the
mosquito
larvae in those areas. I am not talking about city populations of bats
dear.

Dear, this is the largest (did you read that part) largest population
of
bats in
an urban setting, directly above the water, under a bridge, in the
WORLD.
There
are millions and millions of bats in this part of Texas. If you want
to
call
Austin a city, fine. Obviously you've never been here.

I am talking about natural forested areas - or what is left of them.
If a
National Park wants to increase the population of bats, martens or
swallows
what is the big deal to you?

It's no big deal to me. It is misleading to think bats, swallows,
martins
or
anything like it will lower the mosquito rate, because it is
misinformation.

Are you an ecologist specialising in Bats? or mosquito populations? On
what
basis are you refuting this? The site you posted only spoke of Mexican
bats
that inhabit southern areas. Do you have other published references
that
have disproven bat population density has no affect on mosquito
populations?

Taken from http://www.mosquito.org/info.php

Mosquito Control

Mosquito control can be divided into two areas of responsibility:
individual and
public. Most often it's performed following the Integrated Mosquito
Management
(IMM) concept. IMM is based on ecological, economic and social criteria
and
integrates multidisciplinary methodologies into pest management
strategies
that
are practical and effective to protect public health and the
environment
and
improve the quality of life. IMM strategies are employed in concert
with
insecticide. These include source reduction, which incorporates
physical
control
(digging ditches and ponds in the target marsh) and biological control
[placing
live mosquito fish ( Gambusia ) in the ditches and ponds to eat
mosquito
larvae]. Other non-chemical control methods include invertebrate
predators,
parasites and diseases to control mosquito larvae. Adult mosquito
biological
control by means of birds, bats, dragonflies and frogs has been
employed
by
various agencies. However, supportive data is anecdotal and there is no
documented study to show that bats, purple martins, or other predators
consume
enough adult mosquitoes to be effective control agents.

And yes, I am quite well read about bats, I'm a Master Naturalist and
live
in a
state in the US which has more bats than anywhere else in the country.
Not just
the state, I live two miles east of one of the largest colonies known
in
the US.

But, hey, continue to delude.

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 03:45:51 GMT, "JNJ" opined:

Man, I didn't think posting this article would engender such debate -- it
was meant to show that for once local government was actually considering
something other than just spraying chemicals that kill other things and
wear
off too quick to make a big enough impact.

Yes, and that has been honored as being a good thing to do. However, it
is also
good to point out they possibly won't get the results they are seeking.
None of
what I said was meant with mean spirit. Just factual.

I was not trying to be mean spirited either. I love a good debate and always
try to see things in shades of grey. There is no black and white - this has
been useful for me - I have learnt something of Austin and how it was
overpopulated with bats!!!
Cheers, Tina
From what I've read, no formal studies have really been conducted to
determine just how effective bats, purple martins, swallows, and other
such
predators are in controlling local mosquito populations. It's certainly
worth the try and the benefits are substantial.

The benefits are not substantial. That's the point. Bats do not eat as
many
mosquitoes as they are rumored to eat. You can't say it's substantial if
it's
not so.

I'll be attempting a combination of efforts on my own property to control
the buggers next year, including a bathouse, bird houses (purple martin
among them), mantids, small ponds (to bring larvae and fishes together in
union Grin), and dragonflies. We also have a Mosquito Deleto running.
I'm hoping that by encouraging all of these factors we can put a dent in
the
population.

For those interested, this article/story is from the Cincinnati, Ohio
area.

James

************************************************** **************
Bats Brought In To Battle Mosquitos
LAST UPDATE: 10/31/2003 10:51:04 PM

The Anderson Park District is taking unusual measures in the fight
against
West Nile. It is bringing in bats, in hopes the winged creatures will
gobble
up mosquitos, which are known to carry the virus. This comes after a
mosquito with West Nile was found over the summer in Kellogg Park,
leading
the District to cancel their Haunted Hike this year.

Puddles in the park were treated with chemical dunks to kill larvae,
and
mosquito magnets were also used to get rid of the adult insects. Seven
bat
houses, made by local boy scouts, have been put up in the park. Each
one
housing 30 bats, of 11 different species. Park District officials say
if
the
experiment works, more bat houses will be put up in other parks next
fall.

One bat can eat 500 of the insects in just one hour. But there's no
need
to
be afraid. Park officials say that bats' reputation of sucking blood
and
flying into human hair are simply myths. They only fly close to people
if
their exceptional radar and hearing show a bug nearby to eat.